b16b vs b16a

Hey guys,

Got a few queries about the engines - firstly I have used search and read through most of the threads about b16b and b16a.. and the ones about b16a head vs b16b head etc..

My question is a little different, If I have the option between the two engines.... obviously a more dear price for the b16b.. I would like to know the exact pro's of going with the b16b, yes it revs harder and has 15 extra kw.. but in terms of, basically keep the engine stock (internals) and only going for breather mods i/h/e maybe a few others.

Basically, I want to know it the extra 2k or so is worth it.

What is the real difference? Will I notice much?

The car is a daily, but may see the track every now and then..

think you're better off going with just a normal b16a head, the b16b is just mildly ported and polished from factory and with a red top instead and of course cams (maybe springs), that's basically all the difference b/w I 2 I'm pretty sure. Better off saving that extra 2k on head parts imo

Thanks for the reply, I mean the whole engine - isn't the b16b bottom end the same as a b18c7 bottom end?

Not too keen on spending alot of money on parts for the engine later down the track.. need something to get me around for a year or so.. and enjoy a little.

Saving for evo lol.

oh, thought you meant only the head, er not too sure, never dealt with a b16b, but I think money spent better on mods rather than a b16b, plus b16a cheaper more money for the evo =p you'd probably never wanna touch the civic again after getting the evo

why not jump to a b18cR? B16b has high comp, bigger intake manifold, better cams, better valve springs over the b16a.

IMO put that money towards B18cR or a B20 bottom end.

Find out if a B18CR inplant is possible. If so, how much difference in cost to the B16B? Does the B16B come with LSD/gearbox etc?

I'm actually in a similar boat at the moment. I have a B16A2 in my EK4 and have been offered a B16B (with lsd, gearbox, clutch) for 3500 installed. Then the cheapest I can find a B18CR halfcut alone is 5-6k. Is the extra 2-3k for the 1.8L worth it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatboyz39

why not jump to a b18cR? B16b has high comp, bigger intake manifold, better cams, better valve springs over the b16a.

IMO put that money towards B18cR or a B20 bottom end.

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i agree... theres not many B16B engines floating around and when they do, they'll cost the same as a B18C7 anyway.

The only reason i'd ever want a B16B is to put B18C7 crank+rods in it if my chassis wasn't allowed a 1.8l to begin with.

b16b is esentially a destroked b18c (type R ver).
For the cost i'd rather get the b18

B16b cause if the gangsterness, everyone has a b16a and b18. plus u dont have to engineer it if u have a d15/16 and u can put the b18 crank in later to make it 1.8, but value for money get the b18
k20FTWWWWWWWWWWW

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tuyen

I'm actually in a similar boat at the moment. I have a B16A2 in my EK4 and have been offered a B16B (with lsd, gearbox, clutch) for 3500 installed. Then the cheapest I can find a B18CR halfcut alone is 5-6k. Is the extra 2-3k for the 1.8L worth it?

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Why not b20 conversion? Retain all running gear.

seriously since there are that many questions it may be easier for a drop in job.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatboyz39

Why not b20 conversion? Retain all running gear.

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shadou - that's why I don't want to put too much into the civic =]

dsp - I considered b18c7 - I just know myself, If I put the b18c into it.. i'll end up working the shit out of it lol.

Limbo - Thanks for the info (that's what I figured)

rpm boy - lol ~

fatboyz - The reason I don't go b20 is because as I said, I don't want to dump alot of money into it lol.

tuyen - That's a pretty good price man.. very cheap ~ If I could do it for that price I would.. I found one for 4k.. no gearbox.. no install.. If you don't buy it wanna refer the guy to me lol.

Hey guys, the b16b has a taller deck, same as the b18c's .
The b16a has a shorter deck and shorter rods
The b16b has a taller deck but the same size crank = longest rods in any b-series
= better rod to stroke ratio

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fatboyz39

Why not b20 conversion? Retain all running gear.

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mainly cos there are no honda builders in Perth who I believe are compitant enough to build and tune a b20 that will still hold the same reliability as a stock unopen motor would have..

I know a shop that would do it (and have done one before), but they would charge an arm and leg for the labour alone and prob end up costing the same amount as dropping in a b18cr (which I would prefer over a b20)

am I right in saying the above?

b18c2? more torque than a b16 and not as hectic as a c7 or jdm-c
basically nething u buy ur going to want to go faster weather its an r35 GTR or a hyundai excell, just keep to a budget and for the main purposes ull need the car for eg comuting to work, shopping car etc

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tuyen

mainly cos there are no honda builders in Perth who I believe are compitant enough to build and tune a b20 that will still hold the same reliability as a stock unopen motor would have..

I know a shop that would do it (and have done one before), but they would charge an arm and leg for the labour alone and prob end up costing the same amount as dropping in a b18cr (which I would prefer over a b20)

am I right in saying the above?

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Buy a torque wrench, head kit, b20 bottom end, b16 head and only use oem parts and it will be as reliable as an unopened b18c. you could do it at home if u wanted to try.....dont forget to deck the head for added comp :)

Dude if you are Iffy with what engine you want cos you wanna save for a evo...then keep the engine you have now which is probably a sohc d series and just leave it at that. If you wanna spend money on an evo then just wait and spend money on an evo. If you want to by a b16b etc there no doubt you will end up spending money on it anyways.

Figure out your priorities and find your budget and then make a decision. If it were me i would scrap the Evo idea and get a nice b series motor, LSD etc and turbo it with a high comp setup for a nice daily drive and you will forget all about the evo idea :)

lol ^^
i really considered one time about selling and buying an EVO

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

lol ^^
i really considered one time about selling and buying an EVO

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what made you stay?

which Evo? if its not an Evo 9 then dont even look at it :)
Life of the Evo= will get stolen, pulled over every 5 minutes, blow something in the trans, chews fuel, high premium for insurance, but everyone knows they go well
honda turbo = no-one looks at them, will also blow a box if boosted, good on fuel, insurance is preety good, and will be dissed by every car on the street....untill u hit vtec and boost :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Limbo

lol ^^
i really considered one time about selling and buying an EVO

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I've had two s15's which pulled 320hp with exhaust, ECU, front mount, gt28r, and a good tune and yeh its easy to get power out of it and in an EVO it would be twice as easy. But theres not individuality. Theres no out of the box thinking. I dunno what its like in other states but perth are surrounded by evo's and to me they have just lost there appeal. Dont get me wrong there an awesome car. They have everything in one package but i dunno just dont like being the average joe with an evo.

Which gets me to my next random hijack of this thread. Im scheduled to race my mates Evo 10 after i get my build finished and tuned. All he has done is an aftermarket Cat back exhaust. I know my car will make it piss on a running start but in a proper drag i wont hold down any traction and he will be 4x4 :( dunno how it will go.

Highlights of B16B 98 Spec R compared to B16A:

http://asia.vtec.net/beystock/honda/civicr/

Quoted from that website "Note that B16B has identical low and mid range power as B16A."

hrmm.. leaning towards the 'not worth it' phase now haha

Hey guys,

Read that article last night - yeah made me lean towards the b16a too.

The reason I'm swapping the motor is because my current engine has no compression and it's not worth fixing, the head is basically gone.

Also, I know what you mean about the - "every one has an evo" thing.. but everyone has a stock evo.. not the evo I want to build ;) and of course its an evo 9 lol.

I've had about 7 civics now, I love the car and always will. But will not do a project on one again for a long time.

I'm starting to lean towards a b18c7.. at least I'll be able to sell the car off later to fund some parts for the evo.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mocchi

what made you stay?

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spent too much money on my car and will never be able to recover it and haven't even driven it yet! LOL

i reckon best bang for buck is a b18c2 + boost.
When your after more power just rebuild the b18c2 & it will be a screamer

lol guys, no money for boost and I wont have turbo license till next year.. Just need something to not be a complete slug and maybe track here and there.

Anyone selling a b18c7 ?

mate a b18c2 is not far off from a b18c7, then you can boost it later whenever your bored

True, yeah just going to see what motor I can find.. would like to keep it to budget 4-5k max... boost isn't an option lol.. evooooooooooooooo ~

a decent halfcut is anywhere from 2.5 - 3k.
add about $500-800 for fitting & a few hundred for little things like oil, timing belt, thermostat.....

so about 4k.

PM Ben he does so good conversions for a decent price

fail XD

aiite, will PM ben.

Ta

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FastFwd

I've had two s15's which pulled 320hp with exhaust, ECU, front mount, gt28r, and a good tune and yeh its easy to get power out of it and in an EVO it would be twice as easy. But theres not individuality. Theres no out of the box thinking. I dunno what its like in other states but perth are surrounded by evo's and to me they have just lost there appeal. Dont get me wrong there an awesome car. They have everything in one package but i dunno just dont like being the average joe with an evo.

Which gets me to my next random hijack of this thread. Im scheduled to race my mates Evo 10 after i get my build finished and tuned. All he has done is an aftermarket Cat back exhaust. I know my car will make it piss on a running start but in a proper drag i wont hold down any traction and he will be 4x4 :( dunno how it will go.

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Ozhonda does not promote racing, but as your sinsible and UR GOING TO DO IT ON A TRACK, just buy some massive front drag tyres to get the power to the ground and u should b right, if ur friends car is still new he will still be nursing it not stalling and dumping the clutch... so ur in with a chance

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aramiK

fail XD

aiite, will PM ben.

Ta

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x2 for ben
he did the Mrs car and does a great job, highly recogmended

doesnt a b16b have lsd whereas a b16a wouldnt?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rpm boy

Ozhonda does not promote racing, but as your sinsible and UR GOING TO DO IT ON A TRACK, just buy some massive front drag tyres to get the power to the ground and u should b right, if ur friends car is still new he will still be nursing it not stalling and dumping the clutch... so ur in with a chance

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Why does this happen when people say Drag? Of coarse im keeping it legal. "Woopass wednesdays at kwinana drag strip"

Sorry but from what i can see this link here takes you to the Track/Drag Discussion so yes i would think they do promote racing "legally" - http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=22

And if it was illegal drag racing you were talking about then thanks for putting me in that bracket before knowing what i was talking about, the rest of the country does it to people with rims and an exhaust so why not you.

Yeah the b16b has the LSD.

I guess in the end it is a better engine, just not a bang for ya buck.

Kind of like the EK9 in aus :P

When i swapped my motor i had to decides to either go JDM b16a2 or b16b and in the end i think im happier with the b16a2. I've changed pretty much everything that the b16b offers, Cams, cam gears, LSD, etc etc.

I thin bang for buck b16a2, with the rest of the cash you save chuck on an exhaust, headers, intake and you will have the same amount of power as the b16b if not more.

Fastfwd - the b18 is only slightly more than a b16 that's y i'd opt for the b18

LSD can always be added later, until you get more power its not really necessary

Tru tru...sorry i was just doing the b16a v the b16b...but yeh i would go b18

Thanks Fastfwd - appreciate all your input =]

So one more query, If I want to go b16a2 what exhaust will I need?

depends on what you want to achieve, usually 2 1/4 exhuast is good

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aramiK

Thanks Fastfwd - appreciate all your input =]

So one more query, If I want to go b16a2 what exhaust will I need?

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Well it's no longer a rush.. good friend of mine came through with a car for me to use for the next 3-4 months.. so until August I've pretty much got a car... then rego ends and I'll be overseas anyways...

I'd want to put decent intake/exhaust/headers/.. that's about all though. Maybe coilovers.. got a few struts at home at the moment.

Should be fun to drive till the evo.

Any suggestions on all 3?

Guessing Toda?

Intake - a decent pod/CAI or replacement K&N filter

Exhuast - steel cat, mandrel bent exhaust 2 1/4, muffler your choice depending if you want it loud or not

headers - JDM 4-1s good all round fitment & power.

coilovers - good if you wanna track, otherwise just decent shocks and springs

Toda stuff is good, but too expensive for me.

If your going overseas you might pickup some bolt-on parts

I'm going to Europe lol, I'm considering going via jap but I wouldn't be able to communicate let alone get a good price lol..

Yeah I was thinking along the same lines..

CAI/ and the exhaust and headers seem right too - coils for sure and I should have some sussy lying around the my place or a mates.. Will see the track at least a few times.. practice ~

Budget is aout 6-7k max at the moment.. incl engine and install.. so we'll see.. how soon I get the luxury parts at least.

6-7k could get you a nice na b16a2 or b18 setup easy. If you do your homework and get some nice parts then your set for a some fun for a while.

why not b18c2 for 6-7?

I may be doing it, thing is.. I have mate who has b18c2 fully built.. rods, pistons, bored, honed, and everything machined!... he has aftermarket clutch, gearbox.. mounts.. the works ~ besides the wiring..

I can pick it up for extremely cheap too, around 3.5-4k...

He's overseas.. trying to get in touch with him now..

Just need the engine built and dropped in..

Seriously considering it..

Didn't want a project, but for this cheap...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aramiK

I may be doing it, thing is.. I have mate who has b18c2 fully built.. rods, pistons, bored, honed, and everything machined!... he has aftermarket clutch, gearbox.. mounts.. the works ~ besides the wiring..

I can pick it up for extremely cheap too, around 3.5-4k...

He's overseas.. trying to get in touch with him now..

Just need the engine built and dropped in..

Seriously considering it..

Didn't want a project, but for this cheap...

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What did you mean "just need the engine built and dropped in"

i thought the engine was already built etc?

Ah my bad, when I said built I meant built as in, no stock parts remaining..

Besides the cams..apparently.

The engine is in parts in a box, and the blocks sitting near it.

Needs to be built and dropped in..

But seeing as I have 3 months to do it.. should be ok.

Depends on if I can get in touch with my mate.. if not.. may end up just b18c2 stock..

Drive it for a year and sell it off.

dude get in touch with your mate cos that a deal and a half. If you do alot of the work yourslf your will be laughing.

Yeah bro, gave him $500 deposit for it ages.. ago and forgot about it (debts came up, new job etc)

It's a good engine, got about $10k in it.

Most of the parts imported from USA etc.. the rods and all that.

His somewhere in Europe lol.

Trying bro ~ !

Can't do any work myself, the most I can do is drop my engine lol.

ok its happening, b18c2 ^ spoke to mate.

ay cuz if u want b18c7, rods, crank, pistons i got em, selling cheap

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Originally Posted by GSi_PSi

ay cuz if u want b18c7, rods, crank, pistons i got em, selling cheap

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all good bro ~ got my engine ready, just needs to be built.

so b18c2 as in the vti-r version?

what has it been built for?---> turbo or NA?

higher comp so NA.

Once the heads ported and polished and cams are put in .. i/h/e .. should be sick ~

sweet, i enjoy a good NA build.

it'll go like the clappers too! do keep us updated :)

Thanks bro :)

Once its confirmed ill open up one of those build threads I guess ~