I've often read that the b16a head flows better than the stock B18C head and was wondering if anyone had any articles comparing the two.
I'd like to see just how much more is to be gained from the b16a head.
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I've often read that the b16a head flows better than the stock B18C head and was wondering if anyone had any articles comparing the two.
I'd like to see just how much more is to be gained from the b16a head.
more compression than c2 head
more flow esp at high rpm with single runner setup
Hi…
You might like to look here...
http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/techarticles.html
http://www.alaniztechnologies.com/marcharticle.html
Also, for what it’s worth, don't just consider a head swap alone...
The resulting compression drop would cancel any performance gained through improved flow.
A B16A cylinder head will not increase the compression of a B18C2
The B16A head added to a B18C (Non Type R) will actually lower the compression as it has an open combustion chamber. The chamber found in the run of the mill B18C is a closed chamber design.
Plus the B18C2 engine also comes with flat top pistons.
Regarding high rpm flow,
The B16A head has a low port that offers better low to mid rpm performance than the high port of the B18C2.
Though the B16 head flows more at almost all lift values.
The higher port angle of the B18C2 head benefits flow into the cylinder at high rpm.
I have seen b16 head put onto a b20 block making around 250 hp at the flywheel, but this does run aftermarket cams and valve springs and a new exhaust.
Yup, and a whole lot more work too.Quote:
Originally Posted by bigpitty1
Putting the b16a head on the b18c block will give a low compression ratio of around 9.8:1. Which is a low compression ratio, unless u are goin turbo. so to get the full benifit of using the b16a head on the B18c block, u need to put some higher compression pistons and a thinner head gasket.
I am doin this now to my hybrid... and it is quite a big job.... and honda AUstralia lacks on supplying alot of parts. so im still waiting for parts from japan.... very fustrating!
OT - Honda parts fom japan should only take 10 days...
Assuming they're available & in stock...Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Which is not always the case...
... i once needed a new ignitor module. 6 week wait for one from the dealers. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
which is why my car is trundling around with some immitation unit courtesy of some local manufacturer.
i waited 6 weeks for a set of bearings... Damn! things always takes ages when it comes to cars...
although raising the compression with pistons and head gasket on my B16/B18 hybrid made a big difference... even tho my car was off the road for weeks.
have many other ppl on here done this hybrid swap:???
I know at least one...........but lets start a new thread for that CIVIC-R :)
The combustion chamber volume of the b16a is slighty larger than the b18c2 but same as the type R's b18c5. The difference in combustion chamber volume accounts for the loss in compression from 10.6:1 (standard b18c2) to 10.4:1 (b16a/b18c2) not 9.8:1.
The b16a head is the exact same as the b18c type R head, except for having a different valve train, a port and polish job and milder cams.
The bore and stroke of both the b18c (type R and non type R) blocks are identical. The only difference between them being their internals.
Thus, the b16a on a b18c block is essentially the same as a b18c5. With modification, a b16a/b18c2 motor is a cheaper alternative to a type R's b18c5 aka "a poorman's type R".
exactly... and it dont take that much to make the engine produce more power then the type R... but this makes me wonder why not many ppl have done this hybrid conversion?Quote:
Originally Posted by pkn-xtc
look here at some <A HREF="http://www.team-integra.net/forum/display_topic_threads.asp?ForumID=10&TopicID=16335 ">graphs</A>. Basically says the difference between B16A and B18C heads is minimal. But a type R head, which is a B16A head with modifications done, is better in high rev ranges.
If you have a B18c2, why don't you just spend the money on a headjob....
headjob, hmmm, i'd personally spend it on port work
Although the compression is lowered, "9.8:1".. the extra 200cc will produce alot more torque right ? and will be a noticeable difference from the 1.6 of the b16a?
Isn't this the main reason why people do it?
If a b16a head is bolted on to a b18c block, yes compression will be lost but will overall performance increase/decrease?
If a thinner gasket and higher compression pistons (e.g. ITR) will the compression ratio increase back to say 10.4 as that of a b16a? So it will be a high reving 1.8?
I hear that with the b20 block and b16a head, if alot of internals are not done, the engine will die very quickly... is this the case with a b18c?
For this hybrid, im assuming an Aftermarked standalone ECU is essential?
well i've had mine (b16a/b18c2) on the road for 14months now, and have had now problems at all!! all the internals are stock too!Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir JDM
Hey guys i'm bringing this Thread back to life because i would love some help with my own Hybird.
Atm i have the funds avi to get this baby more power (funds eg - $5000). So what u guys recommend processing first?
EG - Rebuild and get internal done on the b18c2 block I.E Pistons (toda or Wiesco)
Work on the head - Cams and Cams Gear with new value and Ti retainer etc
Tip and opinion would be great Cheers. (I've read everything in all-motor to do with hybird. But nothing really indepth)
Thanks
Dave
have you invested in decent headers/ intake already?Quote:
Originally Posted by Phamburger
Yeah the Headers and Intake has been sorted out :)
Now to the next stage!
my vote is for headwork, and tuning.
$5k won't cover everything unfortunatly. There is no point in changing pistons IMO to use a stock head. I say spend money on the right cams and a decent ecu, and some nice head work. Aim to increase you compression and port match to your intake and exhaust manifolds. I'd look at getting a skunk 2 intake manifold aswell.
thats my 2c:thumbsup:
Your opinion are all welcome man
Atm i've got a hondata s200. So the ECu is taken care of. Its running ITR intake manifold, fuel rail, throttle body etc.
SO for me its down to Compression and HP. So u say Cams, Cam gears, value etc? That was my intention. But then i was reading
Compression increase = High compression Piston?
i was conisidering this hybrid myself. if i replace the b16 pistons with ITR pistons, and bolt on a b18b/c block, would that overcome the compression issue?
you can increase compression without touching the bottom end, ie. pistons. I can't remember if the process is called shaving (or decking) the head, but this can increase compression, and also using a thinnner head gasket will change your compression ratio. I know someone that did this to their b16a, and from memory, compression was calculated somewhere around 11:1.Quote:
Originally Posted by Phamburger
I'm get in touch with adrian from toda, or dyno dave. They'll set the record straight for you :thumbsup: you've already got alot of the bolt ons done, so your $5k should get you a fair way in your build
remember, this is only my opinion. Other people may recomend you take different paths
LOL, what compression issue, and which head?Quote:
Originally Posted by aStRooo
EDIT: i read your question again, and doesn't make to much sense. b18b and b18c blocks aren't the same, so that makes a difference, which one is it? can you be a little more specific?
I see! thanks for the advice mate.Quote:
EGB16A you can increase compression without touching the bottom end, ie. pistons. I can't remember if the process is called shaving (or decking) the head, but this can increase compression, and also using a thinnner head gasket will change your compression ratio. I know someone that did this to their b16a, and from memory, compression was calculated somewhere around 11:1.
I'm get in touch with adrian from toda, or dyno dave. They'll set the record straight for you :thumbsup: you've already got alot of the bolt ons done, so your $5k should get you a fair way in your build
remember, this is only my opinion. Other people may recomend you take different paths
yeah i've just doing my research atm. yet to jump into the project. I wanted to do bottom end to take "maximum" advantage of the topend upgrade thats why!
Cheers. I will be contacting those tuners for advice.
Dave
shaving the head will effect cam timing, plus redcue piston to valve clearance...
it is least desirable way if increasing compression...
go here: http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/c...c/compcalc.php
and see what figures you can come up with...
or just get wiseco's and eagle rods and you are done!
if you want higher cr just add jdm b16 pistons complete w/pins & rings and get a brandnew b18 rods(safe side) & spoon headgasket..
i know someone w/ this hybrid setup w/fully work head and it runs perfect!
True, but can't cam timing be adjusted with cam gears? and won't piston to vavle clearance be reduced by changing to higher comp pistons anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
I was only giving him an option based on $5k. I'm not sure that $5k will cover pistons and cams etc (depending on what parts you use i guess?)
Thanks Tinkerbell!
yeah that site did help. Manage to get my compression calculated!
That is my intention exactly. Using wiseco piston and Eagle road to up the compression and make the most of the block :). Port and polish the head and get the cams in :).
The goal is for something in the low 13's (Its my aim, thats my goal with this hybird).
Btw thanks for the feedback EGb16a and tinker!
http://www.zealautowerks.com/
another compresion calculator wich allows for different conrods in the equation:thumbsup:
yes and maybe...Quote:
Originally Posted by EGB16A
If you are doing bottom end, try and sort from japan a piston+rod combo that keeps the same displacement but uses a shorter piston and longer rod. I remember watching this on Hot Version and the engine revved more smoothly at the high end compared to another b16b engine and also made more power. They should make the same thing for the b18c block as well. I'll check the vid again tonight after the meet to give you the name of the tuning house that did that.
i was refering to the loss in compression when bolting a b16 head to a b18c block. will replacing the b16 pistons with ITR pistons compensate for the loss in compression?Quote:
Originally Posted by EGB16A
the b18b block would be in reference to LS/VTEC hybrids, didnt know there was a difference in the two blocks. any negative aspects of using the b18b vs b18c block? because i can source brand new b18b blocks from a local wrecker.
first off b18c block has p72 pistons, b16a has p30 pistons. If you were to put a b16a head on a b18c block, ie. VTIR, you'll lose around 0.2 compression over a standard b18c vtir engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by aStRooo
If you were to change the pistons in that motor to b16a ones, your compression would be a bit over 11:1, and if you changed to ITR pistons, your compression would go up about ~0.2 above that. either of which would be fine for a nice set of cams IMO.
In the b18b the deck height is smaller, and the standard bottom end has a stroke of 89mm compared with the b18c's 87.something stroke. B18b needs to be modified to take the vtec head (oil lines etc) and i think there was something different about the oil gallerys (not very sure about the last one, have a search around, especially on honda-tech.com. There is heaps of info on the LS/vtec conversion)
hope that helped a little:cool:
http://www.bojangs.com/calculator/
i'm doing an ls/vtec build with b18a block, b18c head (not b18b hahaha) and p3 pistons.
11.5:1 CR
http://c-speedracing.com/howto/compcalc/compcalc.php
b18b head isn't a vtec headQuote:
Originally Posted by ACTI0NMAN-1
oops i meant b18c hahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by EGB16A