To Turbo or Not to Turbo

hey all,

just a quick pick of your brains!

ive got a D16A8 1991 CRX, current mods for the engine are Intake, RS*R extractors and exhaust. She goes well... but as we all do - I want a bit more!

I'm debating between the B16A option or the Turbo way... B16As i know I can get for about $1500+ plus extras like mounts, driveshafts, gear linkages.

But with a TURBO - what do I really need?

Im not looking for massive Gains, I don't have the money for a $5000+ turbo job, so I thought I'd ask if its possible to build a 6-7psi Turbo Kit for around the $1500-$2000 mark with everything included - Basically RUNNING!???

I know u can get kits for about $1000 - $1500 - are they any good? I mean are they Ok for a start up? or would I be able just collect bits and pieces and still make it within the budget?

Like I said - im not after massive boost, or massive power - just a little more than stock...

any help would be appreciated!

Mikey

Turbo kit for $1,000 - $1,500 You're kidding right?

it better not be those EBAY kits !!! :P

Turbo to any car will end up costing about $6000. give or take $1000 but usally it ends up being around there.

That is the total cost incurred with all parts, installation, suplementry parts (BOV, better brakes, certificates etc.) and increased insurance premiums if you are actually gonna pay for it.

You can do it for a lot cheaper, not pay for insurance, fit it yourself.. but that increases the risk of losing (car crash, defects, engine failure) greatly.

If you can afford it then do it.

Just my thoughts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nuttz

it better not be those EBAY kits !!! :P

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its an Idea isn't it? hahaha!

nah - I know they are dodgy - but thats what Im asking... wat do I need? what am I looking at for the MOST basic turbo setup!

As VTC said it cost alot.
The $1500 kits on Ebay are not complete. Also I spent that much just on tuning to pass emmisions test. The cost will keep on adding up. Most people shouldn't waste their money on turbos, I did but thats just my hobby car I have no plans on selling, its all for fun, Your car will always be off the road too so if you do go through with it make sure you have a spare car.
Basically what I am saying is turbo is not for everyone and the money poured in will never end, unless you can fix problems that arise yourself you better have money for the mechanics.

Also you say you want little gains but when bigger gains are just around the corner, you will always want them.

Don't mean to scare you but it is true.

Like what Robert from Hannys says, "If you want more power, buy a NSX"

i have been going through this same debate in my head for ages. after it all, im figuring with all these power laws coming in, they're going to hammer any modified car. so i'm staying n/a. what they cant see in the engine, they wont know about! ;)

turbo.. i saw this dvd.. High Octane - Overboost.. they done up this honda CRX and named it Banzai lol.. this thing had a massive turbo along with a massive intercooler and all internals were worked.. it was a machine.. munched literally all cars it lined up with.. except for when it went witha R34 GTR.. but even then it wasnt that far behind.. TURBO good stuff..

own it! its inspired a mate to boost his CRX. they had the b16a though

To start off you will need the following:

1. An exhaust manifold - $600
2. Turbo - second hand WRX one $200
3. Intercooler and custom piping - $600
4. Oil lines and/or water lines for the turbo - $200
5. exhaust piping and muffler - $1000
6. ECU and tuning - $1500
7. Larger injectors - $500
8. BOV - $200

The above prices are only approximations and will very much depend on whether they are new or second hand and what brand they are. Also, this is a basic kit that will ensure your engine runs safely.

If you install it yourself you will save money, but if you get someone to do it, then it will add about another $1000 - $2000.

So all up you are looking at around $5000 just for the parts plus labour.

Hope this helps.:)

i have a t28 and boost controller for sale???

they are definitely approximates. cooler piping alone costs around $600

and it doesnt include things like clutch, brake upgrade, gauges etc that you are going to need as well

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SINISTR

possible to build a 6-7psi Turbo Kit for around the $1500-$2000 mark with everything included - Basically RUNNING!???

I know u can get kits for about $1000 - $1500 - are they any good? I mean are they Ok for a start up? or would I be able just collect bits and pieces and still make it within the budget?

Mikey

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http://www.homemadeturbo.com/

go through the site, read the forums, and hope that you're mechanically inclined.

good luck

if ya really keen to boost her check out this site too: www.turbod16.com

if instant power is your goal.. Turbos are hard to go past..
And damn it is addictive..

A turbo setup up may set u back about 20% more in price than a B16A, but the gains are phenomenal.

CRX Current 95Kw / 142Nm

B16A 118Kw / 150Nm
Turbo ~118Kw / 200-220Nm (@6psi with a GT25 turbo)

Then when u're bored of your 6psi and 0-100 in under 7second CRX, wack on a FMIC and wind the wick up to 10psi and ur seats will turn brown and smelly in no time.. Not to mention the big smile on ur face whenever u think about that 140kw/250Nm of power and 0-100 in under 6seconds..

Copy the yanks mate.. Go Turbo..

oh, by the way.. I may sound like a hypocrite advising u to go turbo, when I'm actually going the B16A route but our circumstances are different. U have a mean ass ZC engine, whereas i had the dodgy D15B carbie piece of cr4p to upgrade...
Turbocharging my donkey is a waste of time and money..

So as long as ur ZC engine is still good, go turbo mate..

it all depends on how hard u want it. if u want to turbo on a budget, do the research and look for the 2nd hard sales.

ill have a freshly built h22turbo complete and for sale soon! bottom end forged and ready to run 20+ psi.... about $8000 dollars later...

(and no its not my current engine either...for those who know):D

I would personally do the non turbo route.
Just done like the fact of a turbo on a honda all that much.

JDM Element: whats ur qwarm?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JDM Element

I would personally do the non turbo route.
Just done like the fact of a turbo on a honda all that much.

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Firstly a grammatical lesson, I assume you meant "don't" as opposed to "done" & secondly, as Weq has brought forth with the qualm proposition, what do you have against boosted Hondas mate? Any feasible reasoning behind your stance?

thanks Boyz!

Your help is greatly appreciated. I still haven't decided as I don't have the money in my hand, but I do know of a mate of a mate who has a D series turbo kit for sale, and if the price is right, I might be able to arrange something.

Dnation: yeah. the motor i have atm has just hit 180000, which isn't bad, runs fine, and 6psi for the time being would be more than sufficient.

JDMelement: I share your point of view, about turboing a Honda but I don't mind a NON-Vtec Engine with a turbo. In my opinion, if I had the B16A I would not turbo that - as personally it defeats the purpose of a Vtec. the D16A (OZ 'ZC' equivalent) which I have being a non-vtec in my eyes doesn't loose its credentials being a Turbo setup - if that makes sense?

I'll let you guys know if the D series kit will work off my friends car, but just if you all know:

[i]do all d series manifolds/heads have thesame ports/bolts? i mean will a D16Y manifold off a EK civic be thesame as ZC/D16A?

cheers

Mike

yep

found out my mate will try and sell his Civic with the turbo as a whole package before he seperates it :( bummer....

will hvae to wait and see...

Jackson Racing have a supercharger for the ZC for US$2000... so would be just over $2500 to buy and still needs some mods.

I guess there is No cheap way out to get power is there hahahaha!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SINISTR

I guess there is No cheap way out to get power is there hahahaha!!!

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No there isn't a cheap way. And if there was, you would be risking spending a lot more money rebuilding the engine alone let alone replacing parts when something goes wrong. And with those cheap and nasty kits, something is bound to go wrong.

Research your options and save your hard earned dollars and do it right the first time. I also suggest you search this forum as turbo conversions/kits etc have been discussed many times for CRX's and Civic's. You will find a lot of useful information. :thumbsup:

A good kit on the market at the moment is the AVO Civic turbo kit. Some bits in that kit should be left out and replaced with better parts but in general, it's a good kit.

Ebay is a good place to buy cheap stuff but be careful when buying turbos etc. There are a few dodgy imitation Garrett turbos going around that will blow up a week after you have bolted it to your engine. So just be wary is what i'm saying.

Good luck!

What you are saying is right!!!! :thumbsup: if you gonna do it, do it correcly I would go for the AVO kit and change some of the parts for better ones, like the Turbo it self and maybe Da Cooler??? I wouldn't touch the electrics that comes wid the kit or Da Manifold......

I have been contemplating on doing this to my B18B in ma LS but I'm not fussed about Power at da moment! I'm actually waiting untill I have my Full lisence in six mnths time and maybe then???????????

I'm with you all da way on that one!!! :D

Better yet, go for the rebuilt for turbo B16A conversion and then turbo charge that! You'll be looking at really good times for sure.

are there any engines already turboed made by honda?or is the wholething based on na.i was thinking itd be easier tojust buy an already turboed engine anddrop itin? but then..would it fit?i got a 95vti accord....

nup, only turbo engines Honda made to my knowledge were the City Turbo in the early 1980's and a turbo Legend in the mid 1980's. You wont find anything already turbo to drop in easily

I've seen in those Jap Imports videos about the TOP FUEL Garage in Japan making awesome bolt on Turbo kits for many Honda Models. Wish they had a branch over here! :)

it's funny how people view turbos as cheap and easy.
from what i can gather, if you do it properly, it's neither cheap nor easy.
you'll get tremendous results, yes, but 15-20k to build the motor properly- makes me hemorrhage just thinking about it.

yes, you can slap a turbo on and call it a day, but thats not very elegant, is it?

im with gingangooly!!!

Im with WPN.22R!!!

:wave:

hehe - thats it - you can't fit anymore people into ginganggooly's Niki haha.. 3 is enough...

oh guys - I completly understand a propper turbo build is $$$ and $$$. I was hoping however that instead of spending $2000-$3000 for a B16A swap and rebuild, I thought maybe a 6Psi turbo kit onto the ZC would be good to get. I guess i'll have to wait and in a few years get a turbo anyways :P

im building my block which means the greddy turbo will be going.. i think i'll be selling most of the kit with it, including exhaust. so around 3-.5k will get u something bolton in the common months :) still deciding.

trust me (and shecomb!!) when i say... 6psi is great for ABOUT A WEEK THEN YOU GET THE BUG AND WANT MORE AND MORE... so what i reckon, you should do the complete job first time round so then you dont have to keep goin back again and again... know what im sayin!:D


ps WHATS UP DAVE!!:wave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LO_N_SXC

What you are saying is right!!!! :thumbsup: if you gonna do it, do it correcly I would go for the AVO kit and change some of the parts for better ones, like the Turbo it self and maybe Da Cooler??? I wouldn't touch the electrics that comes wid the kit or Da Manifold......

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If I wasn't selling my Civic, I'd go halves with you on a kit, because the things I like about the AVO kit are the turbo and intercooler, I'd use different management so it looks like we would only fight over the manifold :D

6psi is great fullstop. like an engine swap. u dont break anything and u'll hav ea heep of fun

Mikey, I think Adri wants to sell his Low pressure turbo kit off his 'B14CK'. That has everything you need. Probley going for like 2- 2.5K. Just a thought.

It has

-Turbo.
-Manifold.
-All Piping.
-Intercooler.
-ECU chip for extra injector.

BTW for a LPT Kit a doubt you need a $1500 ECU to tune with. I think something like a Greddy E-Manage would be sufficent.

My 2c

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Weq

6psi is great fullstop. like an engine swap. u dont break anything and u'll hav ea heep of fun

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Agreed! :D

I'm running 6psi at the moment, runs really smooth and still pulls like a biayatch!!

.......but i still want more.......:rolleyes:

go for a b16a for nows..!! turbo later an get a AVO turbo kit they are great :) saw one in a rav4 before!!

turbo it, worths every cent you will be spending :D

turbooo..turbooo !!!!

Why not go turbo, I am sure it is possable to spend $10,000 on a turbo set up. That said im sure its posable to wast $7000 on a turbo set up.

It all comes down to selecting the best value options.The turbo its self dosn't need to me new second hand you can get some great turbos for under $500 +$200 for a cheep little intercooler.Microtec ecu will only set you back $1000 brand new! now you have $500 for some pipe work and $800 for a manifold.

I understand that some people cant do much work by them self but just a little bit of efort can save you a ton. Like a blow off valve you dont need some fance valve that atracts the boys in blue just go to a wrecking yard and pull one second hand from a factory turbo car.

There was an example at a dyno day I went to a couple of weks ago. A guy had spent big $$ on a Zc engine with all the boltons under the sun and didnt seem to know why or how they were going to all come together to give him more HP anyhow .I ran the same engine but stock and was only a little under his max HP and much better TQ.

So you dont need to go silly spending big $ just take your time and be smart about were and what you sink your cash into.

runnin avo turb kit
6psi
no probs
peace of mind

and yea...if u want a lil more boom boom...
boost till 9psi
and pull it bak for ur daily

Cheers for the replies Boyz!

Although it would be Awesome to hve a turbo setup - I think ive come to a decission that I won't bother with it. What I will do most likely is just put in some Cams and Gears and run that for a fraction of the cost. I will still get better power than stock - so that will have to satisfy the hunger for power. I will get a turbo car when I can.

Otherwise im facing BIG costs for a rebuild when the turbo blows the motor, and even the setup itself - I gotta house to look after and just yesterday I spent 1K replacing my broken Hot Water Syster - which has set me back a bit with some of the plans for the car :(

thanks again

Mike