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Ok guys something I've been working on for while... been on and off busy with other stuff but finally finished it off today. Sorry for the lateness Win.
If I missed some stuff or anyone wants to add just PM me and ill add it straight on = ]
Because the same b16a questions keep coming up, in doing my conversion I learned alot, especially from Ozhonda and its members, so I hope this can be a source of information for future reference, as id like to give somethin back!
B16A FAQ
NB – As a lot of people do this swap in EG Civics some things may be assumed for the EG Civic that may not be consistant with other models
What is the difference between the b16as?
The first generation b16a comes stock in the following models :
EF8 CRX SIR (JDM Only)
EF9 Civic SIR (JDM Only)
DA6 Xsi Integra (JDM Only)
This engine is the 160hp/118kw versoin of the b16a and has a cable transmision.
The second generation b16a, oftern refered to as b16aII or b16a2 comes stock in the following models :
EG Civic SIR (JDM Only)*
EK Civic SIR (JDM Only)*
EK Civic VTi-R
EG2/Del Sol CRX
EM1 Civic Coupe VTi-R
DA6 Integra Xsi (JDM only)*
Those models marked with an * are the 170hp/125kw varients of the b16aII, while the others are 160hp/118kw. All second generation models use hydraulic transmition.
Differences between generation 1 and generation 2 b16as include :
-Gen1 b16a uses OBD0 ECU
-Gen2 b16a uses OBD1 (from 92-95), OBD2a from (96-98) and OBD2b from (99-00)
-Gen1 b16a has 2 Oxygen Sensors (02 Sensors)
-Gen1 b16a compression ratio is 10.2, whilst the Gen2 is 10.4
-Gen1 b16a heads will have DOHC in larger font than VTEC, whilst Gen2 has DOHC written in smaller font than VTEC
Misc. b16a facts
-The auto variant of the b16a has a lower redline and different cams, to the manual variant.
-Gen1 b16a is oftern refered to as b16a1, this is only correct if reffering to the UK/Euopean delivered b16a, which is is the 150hp variant found in the EE8 CRX and EE9 Civic.
-JDM Models do not have Generation numbers stamed on their blocks. Eg. The EG Civic SIR is equipped with a Gen2 b16a, but the block will say b16a, however the AUDM Model EK Civic VTi-R motor, which is the same designation as the JDM, will have b16a2 stamped on the block.
-Automatic Gen1 b16a has single valve springs
-Only the Integra came with automatic transmition Gen1 b16a
What do I need for a conversion?
The easiest and most popular way to make sure you have everything you will need is to buy a ˝ cut. [A ˝ cut is the term used when referring to buying the front of a car (ie the whole engine bay), essentially it is a car cut in ˝ , hence its name]
This will consist of everything* needed for the conversion. Things absolutely nessesary to be switched include (may vary depending which base model you choose):
-Engine (Block and Head)
-Engine mounts
-Headers
-Gearbox
-Gear Linkage
-Drive Shafts
-Wiring Loom
-ECU
-Radiator Hoses
* As the b16a is an electronically fuel injected engine, if you are going to do a conversion in an originally carbureted car, such as an EG breeze or GL, you will need to purchase fuel tank, fuel pump and fuel rails from a compatible EFI model Honda (such as another EG, EK, DC2)
Other things that are not essential, but are recommended include:
-Brake upgrade (At least fronts, rears if you can)
-Master cylinder and brake booster (if brake upgrade has been done)
-Radiator
-Cluster
All the listed items are found in a ˝ cut, which is the reason why they are a very popular means of conversion.
A ˝ cut is not the ONLY option, so don’t give up if you cannot find one.
Parts can be sourced individually. Often there will be a motor/gearbox combo. This can be still be a just as viable option, and the rest of the parts sourced from wreckers. If OEM parts cannot be found, aftermarket is also a very practicle option.
Items such as engine mounts, shift linkages, drive shafts can be purchased aftermarket from companies such as Hasport.
ECUs can also be troubling to source if you do not aquire a ˝ cut. There is an array of stand alone ECUs that can be used in place of OEM ECU
Headers are from time to time damaged in the collision of the original vehicle so new ones can be sourced. Like ECU's there is an array of local and overseas based performance headers thatcan be used in place of damaged/missing OEM ones.
NB – The above listings are general advice/recommendations and may not apply to every model.
How much will it cost?
The answer to this question will vary depending on numerous variables.
b16a ˝ Cuts on range from 2000-4000 depending on generation, year, kms, condition etc.
I would recommend allowing at least 3000 for a 2nd Generation b16a ˝ cut.
Installation costs range anywhere from 1000-2000, depending what your getting done (EFI conversion, Rear disc conversion etc will all amount more labour time)
Doing the swap yourself is also a very popular option. It is timely, tedious, but on the whole not the hardest mechanical procedure. If you have some knowledgable help and a small budget, doing it yourself can defiantly cut costs.
If you are unable to source a ˝ cut, aftermarket parts can be a little pricey. A lot of these companies are situated in the US, so shipping must be taken into account too when budgeting.
Where can I source a ˝ cut?
Wreckers – Ozhonda Wreckers List - There is a good selection of Honda wreckers that should have or can source a ˝ cut for you. Also try other wreckers (doesn’t have to be Honda specific) that you know of not listed here.
Importers – Various importers would have or can source ˝ cuts.
http://www.hasport.com - Does not have ˝ cuts, but list various b-series swap parts; such as Mounts, Wiring, Headers, Shift linkages etc..
What else?
If you are going to do the swap yourself, or even if your going to get someone professional to do it, it is very important that you (or they):
-Change Engine Oil
-Change Transition Oil
-Change Radiator Coolant
-Change Brake Fluid
-Change Brake Pads
-Change Timing belt (if applicable)
-Air-Con (if applicable) and Power steering belts
-Replace Filters (air/oil/fuel)
-Clutch inspection and replacement if necessary
-Clean items
After you source your ˝ cut (or even just motor), you must realize that if this is an imported model, it would have been sitting around in Japan for a long time, in the wreckers, then the shipping yard, then being shipped here, then sitting locally for ‘x’ amount of time. This would mean that the fluids have been stagnant for ‘x’ weeks/months and need to be changed.
As, in many cases, you do not know the service history of the car, it is best to just start fresh, so you yourself can log the service history as well as not risking any damage to your new setup. While the engine is out, it is a lot easier to replace items such as your timing and power steering belts, which may be on their last legs or damaged from the freight movement. It will also work out to be cheaper (labour wise) changing them now than later on once the engine is in.
Because the imported setup has been through various locations, climates and conditions, dust/dirt/water may have entered places you do not want it. So it is very important to clean things, such as Throttle Body, Intake Manifold, Idle Control Valve, some electrical components.
Even if your newly purchased setup isn’t imported and is a local model, it is still very likely that it has been sitting at Tow-Yard, Insurance Assement Yards, Auction Yards and/or the Wreckers for a elongated period of time.
Legallity
Before jumping straight into your swap, there are a couple of things to note.
In Australia it is illegal to fit an engine that is older than the chassis
Ie. The Motor must be same year of manufacture (or newer) as your chassis.
In Victoria (not sure about other states) an engineers certificate is required for registration if you increase displacement by more than 10%.
"hydraulic"
and have you said anywhere that you cant swap a gen 1 B16A into an EG with any great ease?
shouldnt this be 'sticky'd'. we wouldnt have so many q's about it then. maybe even a FAQ on the d's too??
any B-series motor will bolt up to another b-series tranny.. you can take a B16A1 and bolt it up to an EK4 VTiR civic tranny for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
the only hassle is the OBD0 to OBD1, but you could simply retain your d-series wiring harness..
BUT it is illegal in Australia to fit an engine that is older than the chassis.. ie. the motor must be same year of manufacture (or newer) as your chassis.
SiR JDM. Excellent write-up !!!
Yea, when talkin to Win about it the idea was to have it as a sticky because the same questions kept coming up. Thanx Tinkerbell and SiR II implimented it into the FAQ :wave:
Good work mate! :thumbsup:
THANK YOU!! I am running an OBD1!!!!!11 sweet as
Sir, it is a testament to your comprehensiveness that i only had one thing to say... ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir JDM
....ummm.....i have a '98 :confused:Quote:
Gen2 b16a uses OBD1 (from 92-97) and OBD2 from (99-00)
OB1.5???
Updated! =]
B16A Gen 1 also came in the RSi DA 'teg according to Honda's website.
Nice coverage, I'll just add that treated properly, this has to be one of the toughest motors I've seen. 283,000kms on my original, unopened B16A.
Some Extras:
B16A2 Dizzies will only fit a B16A (gen 1) if you cut out a recess for the dizzy tang - it's located on the other side.
B16A2 engine mounts will not work with an EF regardless of what anyone says (and I mean EF, not ED which they definitely wont work with).
Waterpumps are interchangable (ty Tinkerbell and Robbie @ Hanny's)
To get parts for a gen 1 - Strong for Honda in NZ are a good starting point - or ordrer from Japan - they still have proper rad hoses etc and WILL tool up the dies to make you brand new engine mounts (EFs only).
Will check all my notes when I unpack my bags and boxes and find my gen 1 maintainance notes.
nice coverage man, thanks alot
i'm saving up for a 1/2 cut, hhhmm
hopefully i'll get
Any place for doing the conversion profesionally at good price?
Question about this post:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir JDM
what happens when my car is a Oct 91 CRX, and soon after gen3s have come out with the Vtecs and Hydraulic gearboxes? Does that mean that the only B16 i can get is from a Gen3? because SiRs were produced from 1989, and i have probably 1 in a million chance to find a B16A which is made in the last few months of gen2 production?
what happens here?!
how do you tell what year the B16A is mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
they are all gen 1's, so you should be able to fit a gen 1 or newer...
It really depends where you are.Quote:
Originally Posted by crazycivic
Mechanically its not the most difficult job for a mechanic, but having said that you should still use a mechanic you can trust. Where if cases such as problems arises, they will not just go ahead with things charging you extra without informing you etc etc.
Its best to find a mechanic you can trust (try searching the forums, "What mechanic in <instert major city here> do you use?" - its been posted a fair bit) and scope them out for yourself, make your own decision.
The year of production is actually stamped onto the blocks, so even tho your model is a late in the year, as far as i understand it, you are able to use a block from that year... blocks have a year stamp only so there is no way to tell which month the block was produced.Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
Although it would probably be easier to use a Gen1 b16, a Gen2 is still a viable option.
But buying a B16 or a halfcut, i cannot always check the year until I have it sitting in my garage. I would think that it should be permitted to swap within thesame generation. So i could get an SiR for example even if its a 89 model.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir JDM
B16A2 is a viable option, however the cost of installation and mucking around if done at home will increase massively, Hudraulic clutch being one thing and the OBD2 vs OBD0 harness - everything would have to be ripped out and reinstalled.
I wonder if the workshops check what they are installing?
on the block? this is indeed news to me!!!! where?Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir JDM
or do you mean on the head?
I agree entirely, it makes it very complicated, similarly for those who buy say a 92/93 EG SIR 1/2 cut and put it into their 95 VTi, for example.Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
My chassis is a 92 (91 build), and my engine is *apparently* a 94. But thats just from word of mouth of guy i purchased it off.
Alot of the time because it would come in a 1/2 cut, there should be history..
The way I see it is you have two options
1 - Wait for an engine that you KNOW the year/make of
2 - Find and engine of the same generation and take the risk <-- Im sure its been done before!
That is also very true.Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
Ive also heard of clearance issues with the ED/EF chassis and b series headers.
That would really depend on the workshop. I know a very well known honda specific mechanic told me a engineerers report isn't necessary.Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
I think most mechanics wouldn't be troubled by it. Its not their responcibility, plus they may assume the car is for non road use (such as track use) which in that case does not have to follow any vicroads (or RTA) standards.
My bad! Sorry its very hot here havn't been thinking well all day.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
Yes i ment the head!
For those that dont know where to check, here is a pic of mine with the numbers erased.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/%7Eak...sonal/code.jpg
Each *x* is a number that will tell you the production date of the head
i think it is just the first two that are the date...
but it IS just the date of the head cast, not the date of the engine assembly ;)
so it could really mean anything right? like the head was made in 88 but only used in 90 - this is an exaduration...Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
i mean if I get a B16 and have it put in - and then it gets rejected for some dumb reason cos its old... im gonna shoot someone LOL
no - not exageration, i had a 89 head in a late 1990 chassis, so you are right that is doesnt really healp lots.Quote:
Originally Posted by SINISTR
if you speak to your transport department over there, i am sure they will set you straight...
good stuff, another fact it the b16a was the first na engine to produce 100hp per litre (found that fact from honda tuning mag http://www.hondatuningmagazine.com/tech/0203ht_killerb/)
oh and its not just 10% displacement, 10% power
so that means d16a >> b16a swaps DO REQUIRE ENGINEERS CERT IN VICTORIA
my mate does rego at vicroads and had to knock backa few guys coz of they didnt have a cert for their b series swap, DO IT RIGHT THE FIRST TIME:!:
I just read this again......great info James :thumbsup:
hello SIR JDM
i am about to put a 98CTR engine and gearbox in a 1997 Civic Vtir, is this a plug-in conversion??? i do not have the EK9 ecu, but can i use the ek4 ecu harness and plug in a dc2R ecu???? HELP DESPERATELY!!!!!!
MANY THANKS
PM Sent EK7
I own an Eg VTi civic and just put a deposit down on a Civic 94-95 B16A front cut.
the wreckers said it should be shipped to australia within a few weeks time.
I have just read the threat and it has been very informative and will keep everything i read in mind when the engine comes in.
LoL, dunno if it was a threat... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by DjRob
hahaha sorry dude typo.. the boss was behind me.. i was meant to type THREAD lol
hello SIR JDM
I'm am putting an Eg JDM redtop B16a1 into my EK civic coupe, it has hydrolic clutch and my civic coupe is SOHC V-tec already i was wondeering if u can pm me with what probems that might arise when i'm doing this, i know that i have to change the engine mounts,
i have bought the half cut so it comes with comp and wirng harness....
Will it be pretty much a straight bolt in?
PM sent for you sir jdm
im pretty sure its unroadworthy if you have an engine older than your car..Quote:
Originally Posted by danny
somebody clarify this
Thanks for a great, informative thread!
As i'm a novice this is extremly helpfull stuff and very in-depth!!! :thumbsup: :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR JDM
I have an engine older than my car and it's engineered and legally registered with the engine???
Well perhaps the engineer over looked or wasn't informed of the engine date, but that is the law.
you will find hasport won't ship to aus, they will direct you to full-race.comQuote:
Originally Posted by SiR JDM
http://www.full-race.com/catalog/ind...07742fc3272641
:thumbsup:
hmm interesting
interesting :)
why is this?... is there aftermarket mounts to get around this problem for a EF?Quote:
Originally Posted by Setanta
WTF, You wouldn't need anything special mounts to fit a b16a into an EF cause they come stock with b16's.
yeah EF8 = SiR
dunno what setanta comment is about..
I think Setanta meant that you would need EF engine mounts & brackets to bolt the B16A2 into an EF as the EG(or what ever else the B16A2 came in) ones wouldnt work.
I should imagine the mount points on the engine/tranny would be the same.
whats the kit to convert from cable to hydro clutch?
I got a Hasport one on mine find it at
http://www.hasport.com
order at
http://www.full-race.com/home.php
it came with the mount kit.
Heard reports of it feeling abit spongy but I find mine alright,feels pretty stock.
if its not a ef8 or 9 i do believe you still need to purchase mounts because the motor sits higher (different block all together from a d motor) each model had their own engine mounts for the corosponding motor
Hey, I did a swap last year into my ED Civic hatch of a B16A Gen 1. I swapped everything, wiring looms, dash, motor,tranny,frontend drive shadts brakes the lot. It all came from a 1990 EF9 SIR Jap Spec half cut. It has been great but over the last month the wheel bearings, CV's and gearbox have all pretty much died. I put new wheel bearings and CV's in it and discovered that these are the same as on a 1989 prelude, which seems to make sence given the bigger motor as they are all heavier duty than the original ED gear was. My question is what is the best way to replace the box since they are rare to find for the B16A. Can i get a 1989 B series box from a Prelude or should I try to find the original box or should I consider repairing the current one. Any advice or ideas or suggestions where to go would be greatly appreciated.
hi im currently looking at doing a b16 conversion to my 89 da9. Was just wanting to know a few things. Will i be able to use all my original parts from my b18a like drive shafts, shift linkages, air con, radiator, wiring loom and just add a few more lines for the vtec, alternater, waterpump, engine mounts if i was to buy just the b16a gearbox and ecu? Also will i require a engineers certificate since i am dropping in displacement from 1.8 to 1.6? Also what engine would you reccomend me since my car is OBDO? b16a1 or b16a2 as i still want to stay cable style clutch?
The Gearbox you have on your B18 should bolt straight onto the B16A because all B motors have the same gearbox compatability. Your choice as to which one you do. I am not sure what drive shafts are on your existing car but they may or may not be compatable with the B16A gearbox I do not know it is dependant on shaft size and number of splines. With my car I had to do all of it because my old gearbox was not compatable and then the old shafts were not compatable with the B16A gearbox and so on, so I did the lot. But I was swapping out a D15B motor which is not a B series motor so that is why. Also the B16A1 is a cable clutch so this should be the same either way. As for the wiring I replaced the whole wiring loom to avoid this hastle so I can not help you there. I dont know for sure but I suspect all the front end should be Ok to leave as is if you use your original gearbox.
Engine mounts I am not sure about for that swap but you can buy engine mounts aftermarket to suit if you hunt around. This is what I did, plenty on ebay in the states that works out economical. Same with linkages. If you decide to keep your existing gearbox let me know, cause I am looking for another gearbox for my B16A and would be interested in doing a deal for the B16A box if you decide not to use it.
will i require a engineers certificate if i was to swap a b16 into my DA which currently has the standard B18A in Victoria?
I dont know but suggest you ring and ask main roads so you are sure.
hey sorry to revive an old thread but im really confused with my engine lol the guy i brought it off put a b16a in it and on the recipts it states its out of a 93 del sol but when i look at the engine its only a b16a, so does this mean i have a jdm b16a with 125kws or a standard 118kw? and also wat obd would i be running
Look for the engine number etched on the engine block.
If it says B16A, then it is jdm. If it says B16A1, A2, A3, etc... it's not JDM.
DelSol should be OBD1 just like other EG, someone to confirm.
ahh k i just checked and its B16A. did the b16a come out in del sols but? from research it hasnt
del sol has b16a.
Here is link to wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_CR-X_del_Sol
wiki says
Engine(s) D15B7 1.5L 102 hp I4
D16Z6 1.6L 125 hp (93 kW) I4
B16A3 1.6L 160 hp (120 kW) I4
D16Y7 1.6L 106 hp (79 kW) I4
D16Y8 1.6L 127 hp (95 kW) I4
B16A3 1.6L 160 hp (120 kW) I4 1994-1996 OBD1
B16A2 1.6L 160 hp (120 kW) I4 1996-1997
OBD2
which says that it doesnt use a b16a
yet wiki also states
The VTEC trim level (called the "SiR" in Japan and the "VTi" in Europe) was added in 1994 in the United States (The CR-X Model in Japan had the B16A engine with 167 hp (125 kW) though),
which says that it does use a b16a
lol this is way 2 confusing thanks for the help but
Here ya go man
Which is Which
http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/b16a/
Specs
http://hybrid.honda-perf.org/tech/variants.html
thanks for the help Luke cleared up everything i have a 2nd gen B16A from the looks of things :)
the sure way to tell is if you look at the actual engine number under "B16a"... found this ono another site...
"I believe we could well be the first site to have found out the only reliable way to tell all the different B16a engines apart.
(well I did, I snuck a look at the JDM parts manual at my local honda service center)...
The 1million series were avliable in the Integra XSi and RSi from 1990 to 1991. And I can confirm there was an Auto option.
The 1.2million series was avliable in the 92 XSi and RSi, and was also avliable with an Auto.
The 5million series was in the Civic and CRX SiR, and no Auto was avliable. However when the 5gen Civic was released the hp was upped to 170hp, but the engine numbers continued on starting with a 5, and other than some visual differnces it can be hard to tell if you have a 160 or 170hp engine.
Well here are the numbers after the 5-
50 1990 160hp }
52 1991 160hp }4g Civic/CRX SiR
and
54 1992- 170hp 5th and 6th gen SiR, SiRII and CRX delsol SiR."
hope that helps!
PhewQuote:
Originally Posted by MacDiZZle
Just checked my engine number
54 xxxx
I new it would be anyway as I've checked my head stamp witch matches the SiR 2 :thumbsup:
lol,what u worried about a fraction of a point of compression for???Quote:
Originally Posted by Lukezen27
u just bump up the cheat button if your not satisfied
Exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by CRXer
But I'd rather make 150kw at 8 psi then 150kw at 10 by having the more powerful version :thumbsup:
Them smoke ya all once i hit the cheat button and up the boost......
wooo i myns 54 0X XX now i really know i got a jap spec :)Quote:
Originally Posted by MacDiZZle
thanks heaps guys i got dyno'd 2day at my m8s workshop pulled 95.8kw atw im pretty happy with that considering i dnt have a proper exhaust or intake so yea
i wish i could cheat :( the dam coppers took that away from us p platers a loooong time ago lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Lukezen27
rep anyone please?? i really need to sell stuff :(
sorry for being a prick and asking for it...
Thanks for this info.!
x2 just had read very helpful
mine is 60 xx xx; what would this possibly mean?
JDM Models do not have Generation numbers stamed on their blocks??? my japanese mate told me JDM B16A engine no. start from 5.......
CorrectQuote:
Originally Posted by boyjkl1111
B16A then the serial number, nothing more
Its the serial number to tell them what version they have
Misc. b16a facts
-The auto variant of the b16a has a lower redline and different cams, to the manual variant.
-Gen1 b16a is oftern refered to as b16a1, this is only correct if reffering to the UK/Euopean delivered b16a, which is is the 150hp variant found in the EE8 CRX and EE9 Civic.
-JDM Models do not have Generation numbers stamed on their blocks. Eg. The EG Civic SIR is equipped with a Gen2 b16a, but the block will say b16a, however the AUDM Model EK Civic VTi-R motor, which is the same designation as the JDM, will have b16a2 stamped on the block.
-Automatic Gen1 b16a has single valve springs
-Only the Integra came with automatic transmition Gen1 b16a
??? JDM Models do not have Generation numbers stamed on their blocks. ???
may be i am a noob. but my japanese mate he had many b16a before, all generation numbers start from 550xxxx. that is fact.
Yes 55 is part of the serial number but how you tell modelsQuote:
Originally Posted by boyjkl1111