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Hi,
Don't fancy doing an engine swap, but was looking to beef up my 94 Civic GLi...
looking for any ideas as far as forced induction goes, or if anyone knows anyone who has undertaken such a task before... I'm not expecting mass powergains, and pending price and power gains I may still do an engine conversion, just looking for some thoughts and ideas at this stage...
Cheers...
still better off putting a vtir B18C2 engine in there for bang for buck and reliability :)
Forget what others say about engine swap...... This isnt what the op asked lol
If u can find a greddy kit, its quite the bang for buck kit, power wise, any where from 110 - 150kw, depending supporting mods that also influence the cars power
My mates doing similar, using a greddy kit, but going to be using a Hondata S100 chip, an using RC440 injectors to make most of the kit
Or u can build ur own kit, me in the near future, ill be using a nissan 180sx T25G turbo, as it can hold more boost
just boost it, fuk putting in new engine swap unless ur 1 is going to take a sht soon.
i 2nd greddy kit as well, saves hassle sourcing parts.
check out d-series.org mate
coming from personal experience, greddy kit is perfect for a eg cause of the weight... In a ek, it wont pull as much because of the weight... but man in a eg, u really feel the G's lol... for some reason it felt quicker than a S15, prbs due to the sizre, but other wise, id say, go for Greddy kit, simple bolt on kit
IF ur wanting to go another route, Ebay kit... iev Read mixed reviews, but if i was to go that route, the only thing i wouldnt touch is the turbo an waste gate... 2 main things id imagine would fail under load.. but replace em with good units, id say its just like greddy kit
Im not sure about the much more expensive Peaks boost, ask umm Riced_Civic, his had experience an got a kit in his ES1 civic, it makes more power cause of the better an bigger turbo compared to greddy kit from reviews read
peakboost isnt a cheap kit but it has quality
i made 137kw with it on my stock D, the pull feels the same as my mates 200kw S15 as ive got close to 300kg weight advantage
if u want sumthing that makes it more fun to drive but nothing 2 serious get the greedy. just to change the piggy back to a full ECU and get sum injectors (440) if they dont come with it.
awesome, thanks for the help guys...
next question remains... does anyone know any places in Brisbane that would be able to get a hold of either a PeakBoost or a GReddy kit?
Unfortunatly the kit is rare around here, best chances are Ebay, dont even bother trying Ebay.com.au... got nothing at all... If not, try looking around, it pops up once every blue moon
Btw its not Greddy Japan that makes the kit, its Greddy USA, so if it was a new kit that was to be sourced, it would be shipped from there, so look for some one who has contact there
no one will import those kits, its a diy hobby
boosting that engine is just an expensive exercise, which will not yield the results
you really need a better base, for the cost effectiveness of going boost, as your base has alot of limitations in its overall design
I could go on and on and on, but if given the same money Id be investing in a better base to start with for running boost
the tough thing is picking which engine to swap for... and at the end of the day, anything above 250 horsies is gonna be a waste in a front wheel drive car... with my current engine and the right set up I could wrangle about 300hp out of the engine... if i go up to a bigger engine, a turbo down the line would just be overkill and a waste of time...
nothing wrong with turbo d-series, ppl talk of d-series being bad, but have never bothered to do it, its nothing more than crap talk..... all about the b-series, cause they think its so high an mighty
Jump onto d-series.org an turbod16.com, proof of it being a popular conversion, an that IT WORKS
Its not an expensive excersise if u know what ur doin, a good dyno session an tune will leave the car running like any oem turbo car, same deal with installation, just play it safe
get a b18b out of a integra gsi an boost it. least its a 1.8ltr compare to 1.5ltr d15b7 engine.
to get 300hp out of that little engine u have build the internals otherwise ur engine will turn into bbq.
people on here dont like d series. and they will always point u to a b or k series.
imo dont boost it unless u have a 2nd car to get around. in case u run into problems. least u have a get around car.
OK, so it seems that its possible to turbo a D15B7 without killing it as long as I upgrade the injectors, and most are using the TG3, TG4, T25G or T28 turbos (they seem like Garrett numbers to me) and custom building their own system... most D15B7's seem to die without upgrading the injectors... and most can reach between 230hp and 260hp at the wheels... this is comparable to a WRX (which is what I'm aiming for because stock they are they best value for money and power to weight)...
anybody know of anyone on the forum who has had experience with building turbo kits that you might be able to point me in their direction for some advice?
i got a d15b7 as well an built the kit myself.
if i was u just get a small turbo bcoz its more of a friendly turbo for daily which gives a nice punch at low rpms.
unless u can live with the lagi turbo that kicks in like at 5000rpm an up, then get a big turbo, will make far more power than a smaller 1.
d15, i wudnt go more than 200whp. as it can fall apart unless ur build the engine up. also stay unda 10psi.
just get a greddy kit mate saves u hassles, bcoz ur only lookin at decent power.
ur best bet as mention b4 go on d-series or turbod16.com theres heaps of people running 300whp an went into 10s 1/4mile.
yer i went and had a look there... nice little rebellion against B-Series engines there (hehe)... thanks for all the help guys... I think I have a build in my head that I wanna do... just need to talk to my mate who's done this kind of thing before and resist the urge for him to try and to me into letting him wind the boost up and try and make it a rex / godzilla killa... lol
as long as the tune is fine, than it be fine, keep the knock levels as low as u can, an always, always run 98 octane, actually get the car tuned on 98 octane fuels.... ur car will love it for the better
200hp in a civic, is more than enough fun :D
as honda_zivic said your better off getting a b18b as they are a good engine to boost and to get good results
b18b is the same as d16, at most it can only hack 250hp before something happens... stick to d-series, more parts an easier to fix if it goes bustQuote:
Originally Posted by integragsi96
or if ur a baller and have too much money get a h22+itr gearbox+forged internals+turbo+suspension mods+brakes and u have a 10sec car. but will cost a fair bit,
i was gona go this route but fuk it waste of money end of day its still a civic thats worth 4k.lol
and the amount of money to make car street legal as well unless u like coping defects an getting ur parts removed an cleared.
also if u dont tell ur insurance the car is turboed then they can refuse ur claim in a accident an u wont get shit all.
lol... i'm gonna go 1 of 2 routes...
Boost my D15B7, or engine swap... i'm not doing both...
anyone know of anyone in Brisbane good with boosting honda motors?
Gday mate,
If your going down the boost path have some simple advice
* Make sure the motor your are going to turbocharge is resonably healthy
* Research tried a proven combinations
* Purchase quality parts / kit (stay away from polish shit off ebay)
* Swing a few spanners yourself to save you some money
* Look after it when finish. TLC - good oil fuel etc...
its not hard
just get a d16a8 zc motor and boost that
The topic is based on the fact he doesnt want to swap out his motor....
If your going to do an engine conversion you dont swap in any sort of D16 - Sohc or Dohc
my motor (for some reason) even tho it is fairly stock is pulling about 110kw at the flywheel atm... (have a 4" axle back cannon and a simota short ram air intake with a 4" drift pod filter)... the motor is performaing above and beyond what it is supposed to have left the factory with, even with a couple of minor mods... my mate has a D16 SOHC V-Tec in his EK civic, with the same set up with a short ram air intake, pod filter and axle back cannon exhaust (i think he has headers done as well) and his motor out of the factory does 107kw, and he's not a shit driver and every time we line up and let loose i best him... without fail... (so my 110kw is an estimate based on his motor and performance, but still his motor has just been rebuilt before he bought the car)...
so spending $6000 on an engine swap to gain 30kw (thats if i go up to a B18C2) seems like a waste
spending $6000 on boosting it and doing it right (replacing internals etc) and getting up to between 190kw and 220kw (which is possible according to the D-Series forums - if done right) is worth it...
to buy a vehicle that can do that, i.e. a WRX (even an ealry model one) i'd be up for at least $10,000, and I don't like them, i like my civic... so this is my dilema...
I know this thread has turned into a pissing contest between D-Series and B-Series fans... i personally like both but want bang for buck... but are there any suppliers that anyone could recommend where I can obtain forged internals (pistons, rods, cranks, cams, etc...) so I can at least start weighing up what this build is gonna cost... lol... thats all I want...
To rebuild d-series, most parts are having to be brought over seas, from the states, but a built d-series is just as good as any built b-series, than thats to say with any rebuilt engine
B18c2 is good, but like u said, for 6k u can build an turbo a d-series thats even better than that
theres quite a debate about d vs b, but at the end of the day, its ur car, do what pleases you, dont let some keyboard warrior push u into doin something just cause they said so
the general rule is if ur wanting to get a turbo, should always start off with a turbo car, skykline, wrx as such... im personally tossing up weather to boost it or just trade it for a turbo, but with melb shitty hoon policy, imports are the main source or revenue so its kinda a gamble to get one atm
y waste money on a b series its not worth the little gain for 6k fuk dat, u can have a turbo d series which can do 11s for 6k, thats if u do ur own labour work. u do the math is it worth it spending 6k on a b18c for minim gain or 6k on a d series ova 200kw atw machine which will spunk on alot of cars.
check these suppliers out they have everything u need to build ur engine. http://www.fjdistributors.com/
i think i'm just gonna finish off the cosmetics for the car as I can't make up my mind... i'll start saving after that point and either buy a car that was designed to be turbo, or force feed my D-Series... was also given alot of good information on super chargers today too...
i got a supercharged (JRSC) b20vtec in a dc2. just curious what did you hear about supercharger's. i'm only asking co's ive been reading through some of the forums and no one seems to either understand them or like them?Quote:
Originally Posted by 57U-00
I heard that they're easy, simple, and cheaper... they're mechanical more than electronic, and they give u instant and constant boost... the only downside is they chew more fuel because of being on constant boost than a turbo would...
I think most ppl either don't understand them or are blindly committed to turbos... 10 years ago if u suggested to someone with a commodore or falcon to turbo charge it over supercharging it they'd have killed u... now the XR6 comes out of the factory turboed, and the amount of ppl i've heard of turbo charging their old school and new school V8 holdens is insane... its the same just reverse with jap cars... they usually come turbo from the factory so thats what most ppl know about them so they stick to what they know...
If you want to keep it cheap do some research on Vitara pistons. Of course D-Series.org is your friend for this build, it's a great website and very inspiring too lol.
300HP is too much. I've seen D16A8's with very big builds only making 270-330HP, and that's tens of thousands later.
To be honest something like 130-150+ HP will feel great in your car. Get a small turbo to reduce lag, stick it on about 8PSI (or 10 if you're confident the engine is healthy and strong) and see what happens.
Super charger on a 1.6 is considered abit over the top... On a B18 an K20 its alright, given the motors have more torque/power to run it, but on a b16/d16, they dont have that much... u wont make more than 250hp on a super charger... an also, given that they run out of puff top end, those turbo d's will catch up on the long straight
Its just more sensible if u stick to turbo than a super charger on a 1.6
But had u had a K20, super charger ftw! Lotus uses it in there cars
good point there mate. but i spose it depends on what you use the motor for. personally if i was into drag racing i would have gone a turbo. but i prefer the windy roads and not having to shift to second all the time to get back into boost on the street to feel the torque, especially with the larger turbo's and extra lag? but with the JRSC kit, on light throttle and idle it'll run N/A, there's a direct vavle that closes at medium-full throttle on the manifold from the increased vacuum and allows the rotors inside the blower to do their job. so i find quite economical i get 10.5 liters per hundred k's and thats a mix of highway and inner city driving.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
but i think the way to go with your setup would be for the turbo. little motor, little turbo= zippy fun for a daily drive.
nice, good to know coming from real world experience, have you got a dyno sheet? would be nice to see what sorta results with ur super charger it makes on the dyno
got no dyno sheet. but doing my research, on paper from the JRSC info i could find. the kit produces 222hp/166kW @ wheel's on a factory b18c-R. but on a b20vtec/b18c-vtiR head with type-r cam's, 2.5 exhaust with high flow cat and high flow pod filter and help'd by a S200 i'd generally assume some where around 250hp/187kW. i originally bought the DC2-96 with all this and have only had to maintain and service the car.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
I'm in Bris and did my own EF8 turbo conversion. If you want any help or advise drop me a PM.
D16a8 with t28/t3 turbo (internal gate), 2nd hand evo3 cooler, custom piping, standard injectors, standard pump, 2nd hand unknown jasma plated 2.5" exhaust with peeshooter, 14" steelies, dc2r sussy
Tune with Crome ECU chip, running 10PSI all day everyday.
I don't think my setup can get any cheaper, made from 2nd hand parts and reused gear.
Most expensive parts would be the custom pipin' and xforce manifold which isnt designed for my engine either!
I haven't had any problems, except my xforce manifold frying my a/c condenser pipes.
I run gear 4 gear with my mates dc2r w/ injen cai, bc xhaust, toda headers tuned 119 @ toda. On a rolling, i munch him though. If i had better wheels and tyres i'd most likely take him from a dig.
I paid 5k for my car, his paid already 4k on em parts and tuning.
Obviously his handles better, and has alot more potential. But most people don't end up modding more than i/e/tune - mayb set of cams and thats it before it's motor out.
^
How much you pushing at the wheels bro? And how much did the setup cost you, like $2-3g?
No idea.
I haven't had it dyno'd and it needs a retune because it went to an electronic boost controller (greddy2), just before i purchased it.
It's my daily, but it's the 14" wheels, 2" muffler and fuel setup that's holding me back before i get a re-tune.
Just been doing my routine servicing, has served me well over 3yrs and has started every time so far!
I am doing my apprenticeship, so thinking of building a b16a in class and just bolting on my kit since the manifold was designed for a bseries. Which would explain why i don't hit full boost til 4.5k.
And also, what clutch are you using?
Exedy HeavyDuty before and after.Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
It actually still retains the carby box as it was originally a breeze.
So when i did my clutch, i think i put in the wrong clutch kit after reading on these forums but it all fit at the time & she still goes. Just clutch shutter now/sometimes in 1st :(
So now i need to figure out what parts to get to build a Dseries box with LSD or just go B, considering i have to do this to pass my course anyway.
stick to d, if ur wanting the fame and glory, b-series if u want more power with out opening the engine, b-series with a bolton turbo will make more than a d-series ill admit that.... And if ur gonna get a b-series might as well get a b-series with a lsd in place already, but if ur sticking to d-series, only company i know of makes a lsd is Quaife, around 1k give or take, pretty cheap for a lsd, well worth investment, OBX version (ebay) the el cheapo has bad reviews and rep which is why i wouldnt recommend getting one
both are equalling the same in terms of price building
So the regular Exedy HD clutch is holding out with the turbo build? Because I know a bloke who was making about 100kw ATW on his D16Y8 and his Exedy HD was slipping, so I'm interested to see what kind of power you're making. If I were to turbo my D16Y1 some day I'd have to address the clutch so I'd need to know if a Exedy HD would be enough or if I'd need something tougher. Probably tougher.Quote:
Originally Posted by hiepy
Agreed. Stick to the D because it rocks. The B and K series wagons will all tell you to swap but you'll probably make as much power by weight as their super-awesome-rare I/H/E setups anyway.Quote:
Originally Posted by mugen_ctr
For LSD for my B-series I'm going to buy a Quaife one, the other brand I saw in the market was MFactory but I have no idea if they do D-series LSD's. Wouldn't waste my time trying to find an OEM one either lol.
Im running 179kw on my B series with stock eg fuel pump and exedy hd organic clutch.
I wouldn't sit in a turbo Honda that hasn't been dyno tuned either.
All up including power fc and dyno time my turbo has costed 3k with disco potato cast manifold 2.5 dump 2.5 cooler piping big intercooler blox IM and TB
+ 3k for the complete b18c swap + 1000 for fkups.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyRhydah
damn that's cheap lol. DIY swap etc?
yeah all done myself except tuning and welding