[CL9] New exhaust system.. your thoughts

Hi Everyone,

Today I decided to take a cruise down to Rob Bliss Exhaust at Geebung. Robby Bliss has been around for a long time and thought he would be the pick to go to.

The guy at the counter was very helpful in regards to deciding what to do with the exhaust. He asked me if I was after a bit of noise, and knowing myself, I jumped at it. He said the best way to go about it, is to basically remove everything after the join (where it splits into two), followed by replacing it with larger tubing, 2 x straight through mufflers and new tips (similar to the tips on it, just shinier ;) )

After talking about it for a little while, I suggested extractors. His reply was plain and simple really, "the extractors on i-VTEC engines are already tuned to perfection, and installing aftermarket extractors would not provide substantial kW gain for the price." (about $540 fitted). He also proceeded to tell me that the reason he advised just to rip off the exhaust from basically the rear axle, is because thats where Honda deaden all the sound, whilst the front half (1/3) of the exhaust is still in perfect condition, performance and construction wise.

Another topic I decided to rise with him was buying a new high-flow cat for it. He only had one objection about this. He explained to me that Honda's tend to have sensors either at the front or the back of the cat. Now he said there is one at the front of the cat, then there won't be any issues, but if there is one at the back of the cat (ie: placed after the cat) then engine lights will start appearing, and this is not something I want to happen.

All in all, for the new mufflers, tips, tubing and fitting, it will cost me $500 fitted. For the new high-flow cat, about $340 fitted.

My question is, has anyone had any MAJOR issues installing aftermarket extractors or a high-flow cat to their '05 accord euro or similar models?

GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS!!!! :honda:

"already tuned to perfection" - HOTDAMN!

let us know if u go ahead with this, would like to hear ur car after its done,

my friends lancer vrx did this to his car with the cat and exctractors, and sounds alot deeper without the the high pitched farting noise like those milo tin exhausts,

Mine had after market extractors, highflow cat and a cat back exhaust. Never had any problems with engine lights. For that price you might as well get a cat back exhaust. Get 2.5inch cat back, high flow cat and extractors that will open the flow and give you a power increase. Get good extractors and that will give more power.

Hmmm.I was told(and have done)to fit headers and not to worry about the cat back as most of the gains come from the headers.The cat back is fairly free-flowing and is only a bit restrictive in the upper rev range.There is only minimal gains to be had.With headers get a decent set not those cheap ebay ones.

Also would like to know how you go, if you decide to get it done there. I myself am also looking at exhaust options (just after a nice sound really lol) cheaper than the usual cat back options

I have a DC5R, and have fitted a race header and catback to my car. While we have different models, the basic principle is the same, as they are both k-series engines. Youre right in that having a sensor before and after the cat is an issue regarding engine lights. Basically the first sensor (before the cat) takes a reading of exhaust emissions. It is designed to read between a certain range, if it is reading within the set range then you know your engine is running properly (not lean or rich, for example). However youre saying youre keeping your stock header so thats not the issue. The issue is with the second sensor. it is placed either inside or just after the cat. Its job is to make sure the cat is doing its job properly, which is to reduce exhaust emissions. therefore its reading should be lower than what it is at the first sensor. Now, if you put a high flow cat in, your second sensor will be reading higher emissions than normal, as that is the job of a high flow cat, to improve exhaust flow. So your second sensor will be going wtf why am i reading such high emissions all of a sudden, assume your exhaust is damaged, and throw an engine light. I wouldnt be able to tell you whether it will happen or not, all comes down to the exhaust system. If you were to get the hi flow cat and an engine light did appear, it can be fixed. Either with a defouler (google it), a specialised o2 sensor, or an ECU reflash. Hope that clears things up pal.

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After talking about it for a little while, I suggested extractors. His reply was plain and simple really, "the extractors on i-VTEC engines are already tuned to perfection, and installing aftermarket extractors would not provide substantial kW gain for the price." (about $540 fitted). He also proceeded to tell me that the reason he advised just to rip off the exhaust from basically the rear axle, is because thats where Honda deaden all the sound, whilst the front half (1/3) of the exhaust is still in perfect condition, performance and construction wise.

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Huge gains no, but it's an integral part of the I/H/E mod none the less, the K24's 4-1 header is designed for economy and low end torque but not "Tuned to perfection" by any means, otherwise TODA/Weapon R/DC sports/Comptech would be out of business, we are taking about the Euro sedan here, not a Integra type R...

I'm thinking he's probably suggesting XForce headers? Thats the same as OBX they sell on ebay, except OBX is $160 on ebay + Shipping of about $110, hellova lot cheaper than what shops in Australia are charging.

Staying on the topic of Headers, don't forget if you get Intake + Header + Exhaust you'll see some pretty decent gains, each on their own wont give much more power, but add the three together you'll get more than the sum of their parts.

Or if you are adventurous, heres a TRI-Y Race header. People on www.K20A.org had reviewed it and apparently it's good value for money at $500 odd shipped, sounds full on, and they seemed to think itll give serious gains like the hytech headers.

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Another topic I decided to rise with him was buying a new high-flow cat for it. He only had one objection about this. He explained to me that Honda's tend to have sensors either at the front or the back of the cat. Now he said there is one at the front of the cat, then there won't be any issues, but if there is one at the back of the cat (ie: placed after the cat) then engine lights will start appearing, and this is not something I want to happen.

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Just make sure you get a CAT with integrated CEL eliminator, like this one from Heel'n'toe: http://www.heeltoeauto.com/Fastline-...-pr-64770.html
OR you can just get a Spark Plug / O2 Sensor to eliminate the engine light altogether: http://www.heeltoeauto.com/Fastline-...-pr-64839.html

If you are just looking for the Catback exhaust, hell I've saw some the eBay stuff thats better than the local offerings, You can get a entire catback system for less than $300 from the states, add another $150 or so for shipping, cheap as chips (I think thats one is a copy of the Apexi' WS2, so a deep-ish sound).

I suggest not to buy anything from you local muffler shop until you see whats on offer on heel'n'toe auto lol!

AUD > USD at the moment.. So if you are spending close to $1000 dollars why not spend a little bit more and get the whole shebang and get that extra 20-30 odd kw instead of just getting a pair of fart cannons.

If it helps, before I decided to sell the Euro eventually, I was contemplating on the following mods: CT-E Icebox Intake ($275 shipped), P2R Thermal Intake Manifold Gasket ($45-50), Front Strut Bar ($120 Shipped), Progress rear sway bar (about $230 shipped), Topspeed/DC Sports/OBX Header ($300-500), Ultra Racing Front Lower Arm Brace ($180 odd shipped), and a Catback exhaust system like the eBay one above (appx $450) and a CAT (appx $250 shipped).
But in the end I decided to keep the car as is till I trade it in, so far I've got grounding wires, voltage stabilizer and front strut bar lol...

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Originally Posted by Fredoops

If you are just looking for the Catback exhaust, hell I've saw some the eBay stuff thats better than the local offerings, You can get a entire catback system for less than $300 from the states, add another $150 or so for shipping, cheap as chips (I think thats one is a copy of the Apexi' WS2, so a deep-ish sound).

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You know much about it Fred? I was actually looking looking at the WS2, but if that ebay one can deliver a similar sound and good enough quality for 450 I can't really say no!
Seems that seller can't ship to Aus, but I'm sure there's other sellers.

Message them if they can ship to AU and give you a quote, I brought plenty of things off sellers who don't normally shop to Australia. Including my brake rotors, drilled and slotted, $270 for front and rear shipped to my door.

WS2 is great, but I aint paying $800-900 for that lol

PS: That exhaust is either a copy of the WS2 or Tanabe Super Hyper Medallion.... Either way, it's shiny and cheap. And it cant be worse than DC sport, which is a reputable brand selling not so reputable products lol

For that price there are alot of options out there

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Originally Posted by white_ep3_civic

For that price there are alot of options out there

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A catback system for less than $500? please enlighten us :-)

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Originally Posted by Fredoops

A catback system for less than $500? please enlighten us :-)

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Indeed! I'm open to options around 500 bucks.

Already contacted them, he said no :( lol

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Originally Posted by dee-y

Indeed! I'm open to options around 500 bucks.

Already contacted them, he said no :( lol

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Try this... TSUDO, bit more ricy looking... tho

Sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suTgHFPLKoE

Otherwise it's Skunk2 for $888 shipped form heeltoe.... pricey

What I meant was for The WS2 price there are alot more options out there. I would have loved to have gotten a cat back for $500

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Originally Posted by white_ep3_civic

What I meant was for The WS2 price there are alot more options out there. I would have loved to have gotten a cat back for $500

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see my above post, the TSUDO is $270 + shipping.

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Originally Posted by Fredoops

Try this... TSUDO, bit more ricy looking... tho

Sound like this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=suTgHFPLKoE

Otherwise it's Skunk2 for $888 shipped form heeltoe.... pricey

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That TSUDO seems alright. Might get shipping costs. Might check the U.S forums as well.

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Originally Posted by dee-y

That TSUDO seems alright. Might get shipping costs. Might check the U.S forums as well.

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might as well get a highflow cat while you are at it to get a few more HP.

Apparently it's quite loud.

Hmm would like to lol, maybe later though.

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I spoke to Rob Bliss himself, who has been in the exhaust game for over 30 years now, and now that you guys have said this, I really don't know what to believe hahaha.

Cheers anyway guys!

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Originally Posted by 05accordeuro

Thanks for the feedback guys!

I spoke to Rob Bliss himself, who has been in the exhaust game for over 30 years now, and now that you guys have said this, I really don't know what to believe hahaha.

Cheers anyway guys!

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Well 30 years ago there are no such things as ECU, Fuel Mapping, or VTEC. Time/Technology had moved on.
To be honest, if you show up to your local exhaust shop with an import, if it's not a WRX... they'll always just try to sell you mufflers, because the Australian tuning scene for the Euro is limited, most shops locally simply don't have the products to sell you, so they go for the generic/universal parts (mufflers)

And its the common consensus on the board I/H/E do give power gains. Its up to your budget and what you want, if you just want noise then mufflers will do.

Otherwise, you'd be suprised how much sound a CAI/Header/Cat combo can make even on a standard exhaust, and it's a deep sound too.

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Originally Posted by dee-y

Apparently it's quite loud.

Hmm would like to lol, maybe later though.

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Isnt there a silencer thingy on the Tsudo? However loud it is, if you have a CAI, the CAI will drown out most of the exhaust noise by the time you hit 5k RPM lol

It seems like theres a bang for buck thing going on here. Dont get me wrong, saving money is great, but is also dangerous. I would NEVER put a $250 catback on my car. Why? The welds will be rubbish and will crack. The materials will be rubbish and will discolour. The flanges wont line up properly and when you fit it to the car, it wont fit right. Guarantee it. And once the thing falls to pieces after a year, youre up for another one. Do it once, do it right. Use parts that have had years of R&D put into them, not one made from cheapo stainless in a warehouse in China. Theyre cheap for a reason. If youre not prepared to pay the money for a decent prefab like Buddy Club or Skunk2, go custom. If its just sound you want, get the resonators removed. Rob Bliss will only charge you 100-150 max.

I had the same perception about brand name products, until I had a look on the TSX forums in the states, when the supposedly cheap nasty eBay Chinese crap out lasting the reputable brands. Besides the Tsudo brand above may not be a well known name here but it doesn't mean it's not well known elsewhere.

Higher price doesn't mean guaranteed better and cheap doesn't necessarily mean 'guaranteed' falling apart. Just look at the DC sports header for the TSX, compared to the Japspeed Pro-1 at half the price is out lasting the DC sports, and the welding/fitting is excellent. It's just different profit margins, for all we know skunk2 and Tsudo could be out of the same factory in china or USA or Mexico.

Also, just because it's on eBay doesn't necessarily mean it's made in china, the cost of labour is cheap in the states too so the stuff you buy could well be made in the united states. Just like the set of brake rotors I got recently, made in Carlifornia, slotted and cross drilled for $270 shipped to my door, pretty cheap and is the same if not better than the Aussie RDA's which cost almost twice as much, and RDA is made in China.

And Made in China =\= crap. All your TV's are made there, all your iPad/iPhones are made there too. Get those prejudices outta your system.

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Originally Posted by Fredoops

I had the same perception about brand name products, until I had a look on the TSX forums in the states, when the supposedly cheap nasty eBay Chinese crap out lasting the reputable brands. Besides the Tsudo brand above may not be a well known name here but it doesn't mean it's not well known elsewhere.

Higher price doesn't mean guaranteed better and cheap doesn't necessarily mean 'guaranteed' falling apart. Just look at the DC sports header for the TSX, compared to the Japspeed Pro-1 at half the price is out lasting the DC sports, and the welding/fitting is excellent. It's just different profit margins, for all we know skunk2 and Tsudo could be out of the same factory in china or USA or Mexico.

Also, just because it's on eBay doesn't necessarily mean it's made in china, the cost of labour is cheap in the states too so the stuff you buy could well be made in the united states. Just like the set of brake rotors I got recently, made in Carlifornia, slotted and cross drilled for $270 shipped to my door, pretty cheap and is the same if not better than the Aussie RDA's which cost almost twice as much, and RDA is made in China.

And Made in China =\= crap. All your TV's are made there, all your iPad/iPhones are made there too. Get those prejudices outta your system.

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I wouldn't call DC Sports a quality brand... And the quality on the ebay exhausts can't possibly be as good as your Js Racing, Toda, Buddyclub, etc. A company that sells a catback for $250 is either making a loss or manufacturing their parts from scrap metal. And yeah you're right about Chinese parts not necessarily being crap, however, if I wanted someone to make me a car, I'd ask an Italian or a German. If I wanted someone to make me a coffee, i'd ask a frenchman. And if I wanted someone to make me a catback, I'd go Japanese, or maybe US. That's just me and I know not everyone is that way inclined, but these companies build a reputation for researching and track testing their parts, not from some bloke buying a jap catback, taking it home to his shed, and trying his best to copy it. I'd rather buy a quality second hand catback from a brand like fujitsubo than spend the same money on something from eBay I've never heard of. Just in the same way I'd rather buy a second hand honda over a new great wall car.

I don't buy branded parts so I can strut around saying oh all my parts are toda and jun, look at me. I do it because I know their parts are of the best quality. I'm not too sure about the Euros, but for the DC5 at least, you can buy brand new skunk2 and buddyclub catbacks from eBay for 550 plus shipping. IMO that is a steal.

And true your tvs and ipads etc may be made in china, but I guarantee you they're not designed and researched there. Which is what you pay for on branded parts, the time and research that goes into making a quality catback that will do a good job on the car it's designed for, not one that'll do a good enough job for the price. That's my .02 at least.

Just gonna chuck in my 2 cents.

Exhausts are designed to get emissions out of a car. However as the euro is for "luxury" it is definatly not the best designed system.

Headers is where it all starts to get the fumes out of the engine bay. If you do nothing to the headers and get the best of a high flow cat and cat back exhaust you will see some gain but nowhere near as much when headers are installed.

If you make the engine get rid of all the exhaust gases efficiently you will be able to gain more power.

A stock header is usually 4-1 where the 4 is only really used due to the engine design and is all put into 1 pipe asap to save costs. With these and the combination of an engines cylinders not firing at the exact time and the exhaust gases not being extracted quickly enough will enable pressure to build up (this is al happening before the cat). So if you ensure the fumes are being extracted efficiently and reduce pressure you will see gains.

Now if you change your cat to a highflow cat it will make a difference and will get the fumes out of the car make them able to be omitted to the atmospher legally all a high flow cat does is does it quicker.

The B-Pipe or catback exhaust has almost nothing to do with an exhaust system except to get the fumes out you can design it anyway you like and can be customised like a mofo and is usually why is cheaper there is no science to it. The only thing that you need to keep in mind is consisty. If you have headers that the pipe drops into a 3" pipe you would not get a anything lower then 3" due to pressure will be backed up and will be pointless in getting headers. If you have a 2" exhaust you can go bigger however if there is no pressure then that is also bad however a bit bigger can reduce pressure and create a more free flowing exhaust which will enable a slight performance gain.

Now the experience with my exhaust. I have 4-2-1 headers the 1 being a 3" pipe going into a highflow cat. I then have a 3" cat back with dual exhausts and 2 resonators inbetween. Mine is nowhere near loud and dont want a loud exhaust. It is designed to increase power with the 4-2-1 headers while still being quiet.

The summary. If you dont get the exhaust fumes out of the engine in the first place the other mods wont do to much.

btw for people saying Skunk2 from heeltoe, they don't sell them anymore.

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Originally Posted by marquee

The B-Pipe or catback exhaust has almost nothing to do with an exhaust system except to get the fumes out you can design it anyway you like and can be customised like a mofo and is usually why is cheaper there is no science to it. The only thing that you need to keep in mind is consisty. If you have headers that the pipe drops into a 3" pipe you would not get a anything lower then 3" due to pressure will be backed up and will be pointless in getting headers. If you have a 2" exhaust you can go bigger however if there is no pressure then that is also bad however a bit bigger can reduce pressure and create a more free flowing exhaust which will enable a slight performance gain.

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Exactly what I was thinking, it's jut some pipes with mufflers on it, why pay $$$$ foor them whey they does f all performance wise.

You get a nice deep growl from header/CAT and CAI already and they actually give decent performance gains. Besides, some CAI's are so noisy at WOT you can't hear the fart cannons from inside the car anyway (injen or icebox with k&n filter for example).

Asked that tsudo seller some questions like shipping and more importantly fitments and quality, since that's the thing I'm iffy about. For the record I've already got an Injen CAI.

I thought the max size you would put on an na car like the euro was 2.5inch. Isnt 3 inch more in the realm of turbo cars?

lol the seller said shipping will be around 500....

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Originally Posted by dee-y

Asked that tsudo seller some questions like shipping and more importantly fitments and quality, since that's the thing I'm iffy about. For the record I've already got an Injen CAI.

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you already have Injen? lol how did you survive the floods? :-P

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Originally Posted by 10KRPM

I thought the max size you would put on an na car like the euro was 2.5inch. Isnt 3 inch more in the realm of turbo cars?

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I think they're referring to muffler.

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Originally Posted by dee-y

lol the seller said shipping will be around 500....

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Heel-toe it is lol

or just a header and highflow cat.... that give a nice enough growl

I live in Eight Mile Plains. Never any chance of it flooding there lol

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Originally Posted by dee-y

I live in Eight Mile Plains. Never any chance of it flooding there lol

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lol im next door!

Which suburb mate? You might see me around in a dropped Silver CL9 with work vs

Sunnybank, Blue Euro with an interstate plate!

Nice! I'm always around plaza and MS. Might see my car around hah

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Originally Posted by 10KRPM

I thought the max size you would put on an na car like the euro was 2.5inch. Isnt 3 inch more in the realm of turbo cars?

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Mine is 3" its not so much a forced induction its more the power pulling and size of an engine. Turbos normally have a 4" turbo back for optimum performance. Most engines like the bseries engine would use 2.5" unless forced induction was added. There is not much difference between 2.5" and 3" however if wishing to go turbo or for most accord euros supercharge or increase the power substantially then a 3" exhaust will be a much better building block however there is nothing wrong with 2.5"

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Originally Posted by marquee

Mine is 3" its not so much a forced induction its more the power pulling and size of an engine. Turbos normally have a 4" turbo back for optimum performance. Most engines like the bseries engine would use 2.5" unless forced induction was added. There is not much difference between 2.5" and 3" however if wishing to go turbo or for most accord euros supercharge or increase the power substantially then a 3" exhaust will be a much better building block however there is nothing wrong with 2.5"

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Id be very surprised if you gained all throughout the rev range with a 3 inch system from the header back. Even though the 2.4 k series is a biggish 4 cylinder engine i dont think it would generate enough back pressure that a 3 inch system would then alliviate.

Back before i had the dc2r, i was getting around in an S15. 200kw at the wheels and the system was just 3 inch. The k24 is lucky to push 110 at the wheels....so 3inch is overkill.

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Originally Posted by 10KRPM

Id be very surprised if you gained all throughout the rev range with a 3 inch system from the header back. Even though the 2.4 k series is a biggish 4 cylinder engine i dont think it would generate enough back pressure that a 3 inch system would then alliviate.

Back before i had the dc2r, i was getting around in an S15. 200kw at the wheels and the system was just 3 inch. The k24 is lucky to push 110 at the wheels....so 3inch is overkill.

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I don't Disagree with that at all if you were to just get an exhaust there would be no need for a 3" however if you were to do more with the engine. I am planning to be pulling 160 or so kw atw soon and will be also putting cams and could look at a supercharger. My point is that if you are looking to upgrade the engine alot I would go with the 3" but if not it doesnt make much difference or any difference if you get a 2.5" or a 3" exhaust.