ITR Intake Manifold on b16aII

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03-02-2005, 02:24 AM
SiR JDM

ITR Intake Manifold on b16aII

Hey guys... done some searching and researching, few questions for those that know...

I got a decent deal waitin on a ITR I/M (TB not included) ... wondering mainly 2 things...

1 - Ive read and been told of different experiences with the ITR IM on b16as.

Most comon story goes that a bit low end is sacrifced for a bit of top end.... mainly interested in the extremities of this... b16a is already torqueless.. i dont want to loose TOO much, but if a top end gain is seen then i am willing to sacrifice a bit... whats the main story with this ?

As i havn't done my exhuast yet, i was thinkin if a low end is significantly lost id do a 2" instead of a 2.25" .. but that might be pointless as the mod will be done for the purpose increasing my topend ?

Also im planning on using my b16aII TB... which i dont think people used in these stories?

btw - to add im running, and plan on running all stock internals.. bolt on modifications only.

2 - Reading various info all over the place i have a fair idea wats involved..
Different IACV is needed (got this covered)
New TB and IM gaskets (no prob)
Relocating IAT - The IAT Sensor is differnent on the ITR so there is a hole... I heard the b16a one doesn't fit ? if this is true, wat should be used in replacement of it?
Read most other things fit but are a bit of a tight squeeze?
03-02-2005, 05:26 AM
Looneee

I've got a ITR I/M on my B16A and I've got no complaints. Though my mechanic seems to think that the CTR I/M works better.

But it was a good upgrade. I'd go with it.
03-02-2005, 07:54 AM
SiR JDM

I thought that practically the ITR and CTR have the same manifold? Although they have different part numbers, the runners are slightly shorter on the CTR and throttle sensor placement the differences are negligible.... so ive read.

Looneee - Which other mods do you have with it? Did you use the ITR TB as well? Any difficulties/troubles when you changed over?
03-02-2005, 08:17 AM
Qwooootz

sorry to sound dopey, but whats a TB?
03-02-2005, 08:21 AM
DLO01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwooootz

sorry to sound dopey, but whats a TB?

I take it they are refering to Throttle Body.
03-02-2005, 08:40 AM
SiR JDM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Qwooootz

sorry to sound dopey, but whats a TB?

Quote:

Originally Posted by DLO01

I take it they are refering to Throttle Body.

:thumbsup: ...to clarify a few things...
IM : Intake Manifold
TB : Throttle Body
IACV : Idle Air Control Valve (Oftern refered to as IAC)
IAT : Intake Air Temp (Sensor)
03-02-2005, 09:32 AM
Qwooootz

thanks guys!:D
03-02-2005, 09:39 AM
spoondc2

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiR JDM

I thought that practically the ITR and CTR have the same manifold? Although they have different part numbers, the runners are slightly shorter on the CTR and throttle sensor placement the differences are negligible.... so ive read.

Looneee - Which other mods do you have with it? Did you use the ITR TB as well? Any difficulties/troubles when you changed over?

EK9 IM = EK4 IM, internal diameters are all equal to 45mm, but the TB on ek9 are bigger than ek4 though, it's 62mm
03-02-2005, 10:41 AM
jimmeh

SirJdm - i got a port and polishd ITR TB and to be honest with u i dont think u will notice the power shift cos its that small. if u already have the IM then bolt it on, if not then dont bother. another option would be to PnP ur current manifold.
03-02-2005, 10:59 AM
SiR JDM

Im planning on using my original TB with the ITR I/M ...
03-02-2005, 11:13 AM
edw-R

Is the diameter of ITR IM equal to the diameter of EK4 TB?? If they are not the same, no good for the air flow.
03-02-2005, 11:17 AM
Civic Type R

The JDM ITR and the CTR Intake manifold are exactly the same and both TB's are 62mm. According to HyperREV magazine.
03-02-2005, 11:23 AM
sesshoumaru

i was going to do this, but i believe weezer told me there's no real power gain unless you are reving well past 8000rpm.
03-02-2005, 11:30 AM
sivic

i have a book on honda tuning sitting at home which has heaps of dyno tested stuff. on the test comparing the stock b16 IM with the ITR item for use on a B16, the ITR IM only makes more power right up top but makes less power across the rest of the band, in some places by significant amounts. it seems the stock B16 IM is extremely well designed. however, a larger TB seems to produce good gains from the tests done in this book
03-02-2005, 11:38 AM
Civic Type R

What sivic wrote is the same news as ive also heard before. Also, i recall dynodave or ecu-man saying last year that theier were no power gains by having an ITR IM on a B16A2 engine. Why - they are not tuned together.
03-02-2005, 11:45 AM
hondar

Quote:

Originally Posted by Looneee

I've got a ITR I/M on my B16A and I've got no complaints. Though my mechanic seems to think that the CTR I/M works better.

But it was a good upgrade. I'd go with it.

ITR IM = CTR IM, I have compared both of them on hand and they are the same except for the part no. so i hope this information helps :D

The choice of ur IM, will determine where the PEAK TORQUE will occur along the rpm range.

The shorter it is, the higher the PEAK TORQUE will occur along the rpm range.

You have to decide where along the rpm range that you will spending most of your time in a car. if u race a lot, you will spend time a lot of time in higher end so it will be good to have ur PEAK TORQUE in range that you will be in.

if you just drive daily and hardly go beyond 5000rpm, u will realised that u feel like the car has lost the torque...well, the torque is not lost... just shifted to a higher end where it needed most when it matters.

hope this help :thumbsup: :D
03-02-2005, 12:04 PM
SiR JDM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondar

ITR IM = CTR IM, I have compared both of them on hand and they are the same except for the part no. so i hope this information helps :D

Thought so...

Im not too fussed with loosing low end... as long as its not TOO much... i dont want it to turn into a GL or something... somethin with nice mid-high range

Im not into dragging so im not huge on low end ... when i want the power i will be in higher revs .. where the gains are situatied (so it seems?)

The reason I ask is because my IACV needs to be replaced, and ive found it cheaper to source an ITR IM with necesary parts (including an ITR IACV) than buyin a b16 IACV alone... I thought I may as well opt for this option since it is cheaper.. and in some cases better... ?

If the IACV had not needed replacing, i probably wouldn't even consider this.. but efficiently it seems like a better option, unless someone can hook me up with a decent b16 IACV?

So my real main question that remains is.. that will changing the IM cause a serious loss of low end? (with a i/h/e combo [4-2-1 headers]) ? in a sense that drivability will be hugely sacrificed?

Quote:

Originally Posted by sesshoumaru

i was going to do this, but i believe weezer told me there's no real power gain unless you are reving well past 8000rpm.

He was also running ITR TB and 4-1 headers ... all designed for a 1.8 ... he experienced significant losses down low because of that..
03-02-2005, 12:35 PM
Civic Type R

Quote:

Originally Posted by hondar

ITR IM = CTR IM, I have compared both of them on hand and they are the same except for the part no. :thumbsup: :D

yay .. thats what i said as well :)
03-02-2005, 12:49 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiR JDM

Im not into dragging so im not huge on low end ... when i want the power i will be in higher revs .. where the gains are situatied (so it seems?)

huh?

what do you need any low end for drag racing?

BTW - the answer is if it is cost effective, and u r not going to dyno tune it, then just do it.

also, i gained ~10kw ATFW with ITR IM over B16A IM in a B20VTEC set-up, dunno if this helps you though...
03-02-2005, 12:53 PM
spoondc2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Civic Type R

The JDM ITR and the CTR Intake manifold are exactly the same and both TB's are 62mm. According to HyperREV magazine.

JDM ITR 96 spec - 62mm TB
98 spec - 67mm TB
JDM CTR - 62mm TB
EK4 - 58 i think?

My fd who works in wreck yard show me the CTR, ITR 98 spec IM, they are not the same, CTR internal are lot smaller which is exactly the same as EK4
internal diameter and the outside diameter are not the same i think, not sure about the diameter really but you could really see the huge difference between ITR and CTR IM
03-02-2005, 01:10 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoondc2

98 spec - 67mm TB

ROFLMAO!
03-02-2005, 01:24 PM
SiR JDM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

huh?

what do you need any low end for drag racing?

i kinda dind't really put any thought into that comment.. so ignore it... haha
03-02-2005, 01:26 PM
Civic Type R

ok gimme a second...

this is the 98 JDM ITR TB i have.

It clearly measures 67mm at the inlet but am i under the belief this is still officially 62mm ?

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/...ottle_body.jpg
03-02-2005, 01:28 PM
tinkerbell

Okies ;)

oh, and where do you guys think that the EK9 has a 62mm TB?

the ONLY B-series engines with 62mm TB's are the ITR and CTR...

and there is no ITR 67mm TB
03-02-2005, 01:30 PM
Civic Type R

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

Okies ;)

oh, and where do you guys think that the EK9 has a 62mm TB?

the ONLY B-series engines with 62mm TB's are the ITR and CTR...

umm what ?
the EK9 is CTR :D
03-02-2005, 01:58 PM
SPEEDCORE

Do the TBs mentioned tapper off in diameter? :rolleyes:

Could be the source of so much confusion! *shruggs*
03-02-2005, 02:14 PM
tinkerbell

we have been through this before!

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11745

the TB diameter is measured from the IM side!

yuor memory going mate?

and sorry, i didnt know much about civic designations, so if the EK9 = only the CTR then it is 62mm TB
03-02-2005, 02:26 PM
Civic Type R

tinkerbell yes we have had this debate before and i wasnt having a go at you dude.
03-02-2005, 02:36 PM
tinkerbell

but i did learn that the EK9 is the CTR ;)
03-02-2005, 02:40 PM
Civic Type R

lol.
**Tinkerbell slaps himself for not knowing something he should**

:)
03-02-2005, 05:44 PM
badsector

The ITR and CTR and EK4 all have the same size IM?

The only difference between... say the ITR and the EK4 is the TB? If so, changing the TB on an EK4 will give a powergain.

Can someone clarify this? I got lost somewhere in the thread! :D
03-02-2005, 05:56 PM
hondar

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsector

The ITR and CTR and EK4 all have the same size IM?

The only difference between... say the ITR and the EK4 is the TB? If so, changing the TB on an EK4 will give a powergain.

Can someone clarify this? I got lost somewhere in the thread! :D

tb alone will not give power gain. u need all parts to work together to get the power gain. :D

if u change the manifold and TB and do nothin else, its doesnt help anything. maybe be feel different but you are short of fulfilling the potential of what it can do had you the correct parts to suport it.

so u need other parts as well and TUNING. <- (not shouting but stressing the importance of it :D )
03-02-2005, 08:12 PM
spoondc2

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

ROFLMAO!

What's that?
I am wrong?
04-02-2005, 09:44 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by badsector

The ITR and CTR and EK4 all have the same size IM?

The only difference between... say the ITR and the EK4 is the TB? If so, changing the TB on an EK4 will give a powergain.

Can someone clarify this? I got lost somewhere in the thread! :D

i dont belive the EK4 has a Type R intake

but i could be wrong :confused:

spoondc2 - there is no 67mm B series TB, only 62mm
04-02-2005, 12:16 PM
ATSEK4

Quote:

Originally Posted by Civic Type R

ok gimme a second...

this is the 98 JDM ITR TB i have.

It clearly measures 67mm at the inlet but am i under the belief this is still officially 62mm ?

http://www.ozhonda.com/gallery/data/...ottle_body.jpg

mine one is also 67mm. same as yours
04-02-2005, 12:17 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by ATSEK4

mine one is also 67mm. same as yours

and the size of your throttle body is still 62mm.
04-02-2005, 12:31 PM
spoondc2

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and the size of your throttle body is still 62mm.

You mean Outside 67mm taper to 62mm at the plate?
04-02-2005, 12:33 PM
tinkerbell

yes, so it is a 62mm size.

TBs are measureed at the plate side...
04-02-2005, 02:12 PM
SPEEDCORE

I'll refer everyone one to my original post.........

Quote:

Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE

Do the TBs mentioned tapper off in diameter? :rolleyes:

Could be the source of so much confusion!
04-02-2005, 02:21 PM
tinkerbell

dont worry, no one reads/absorbs what anyone posts on ozhonda anyways dude...
04-02-2005, 04:40 PM
Civic Type R

AU VTiR TB is 58mm
JDM SiR TB 60mm
JDM ITR & CTR 62mm

Tinkerbell, thats why i made my website to answer the questions people post here :D