FI s2k= Transmission upgrade?

Hi all,

I'll try and keep this short and sweet. This is my first post (Question). I usually wouldn't post anything as everything i ever wanted to know is already answered here or over at s2ki. But anyways..

I will be supercharging my S2000 soon. My goal is 400rwhp. At first i thought I'de just have to upgrade/ rebuild my diff (considering i would like to launch the car from time to time) but after doing a fair bit of research, I've come to realize i may need a transmission upgrade.. Is this true or can the oem transmission handle the power? I've read that 2nd gear on S2000's are weak and usually break with that sort of power.

If this is the case, can you please recommend some good transmission upgrades?
i know of the PPG gearbox. But that's in excess of 5k. Is there anything else out there that is possibly cheaper?

Thanks for all your replies and help in advance!

Chris

Generally I'd say for 400hp the stock tranny is fine, but you mention you want to 'launch'. I could go through a list of options but they are all covered in the FI section on S2ki so I'd just be duplicating posts.

However, bring a very generous wallet with ya.

Oh damn I forgot about the sk2i FI section! Doesn't matter, repost here for all the ozhonda users. It's good to have on both forums.
And thanks alot for your replies Aus! I think my sychros need changing anyways, ever since I bought the car 2nd to 3rd feels like it's hitting on something mid way through the shift. But yes I wanna be able to launch it and be care free! I understand that it isn't gonna be cheap, Ide rather keep saving up if it means piece of mind and long term durability!

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

Oh damn I forgot about the sk2i FI section! Doesn't matter, repost here for all the ozhonda users. It's good to have on both forums.
And thanks alot for your replies Aus! I think my sychros need changing anyways, ever since I bought the car 2nd to 3rd feels like it's hitting on something mid way through the shift. But yes I wanna be able to launch it and be care free! I understand that it isn't gonna be cheap, Ide rather keep saving up if it means piece of mind and long time durability!

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I have the same feel of like it's hitting something before it goes into gear. but with first second and third. my diff is on its way and im looking at getting a puddymod diff ordered. 730 for shipping is quite alot, but i'd like to know i've got a awsome diff from the good ol Ben! i do need to do something about my gearbox as well because it is very annoying.

chriis, ain't my job to make life easier for OzHonda'ers (although you could be forgiven for thinking it is). If you want to spoon feed them you are most welcome to trawl S2ki and provide a summary.

ALPS: I've been saving up for a stage 4 puddymod for ages, and just before i was about to purchase i changed my mind and now im pretty sure im going with the r200 conversion. I'm spending all this money, may as well do it right the first time and never have to worry about it again! yeh i was quoted $750 for shipping from ben. The thought of spending that much on virtually nothing annoys me lol

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

chriis, ain't my job to make life easier for OzHonda'ers. If you want to spoon feed them you are most welcome to trawl S2ki and provide a summary.

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lol im the laziest person ever.. so don't think i'de be doing that lol butt anyways, do you think the ppg sychros are worth it? Some people say its a band-aid solution, some people say its leaps and bounds beyond the stock sychros. Know anyone that's dealt with them directly?

Thanks again

I really couldn't say. I think honda9krm and Elaug over in the Aus section of S2ki have some experience with them.

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

ALPS: I've been saving up for a stage 4 puddymod for ages, and just before i was about to purchase i changed my mind and now im pretty sure im going with the r200 conversion. I'm spending all this money, may as well do it right the first time and never have to worry about it again! yeh i was quoted $750 for shipping from ben. The thought of spending that much on virtually nothing annoys me lol

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Why dont you go to a diff and gearbox specialist and see what they can do?

'swat I did.

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Originally Posted by VeYzZii

Why dont you go to a diff and gearbox specialist and see what they can do?

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Hey veyzzii, I want something that's already been developed/ tested/ proven by a reputable/ well recognized brand/ company. I don't trust or rather wouldn't take the chance with a specialist, specially from Australia where hardly anyone works with s2000's. Thanks for the tip but. Worse comes to worse, I'll probs end up going that route anyways

Surprisingly Australia is one of the world leaders in this sort of performance modification. Sure Puddy does some great work beefing up a S2000 diff but the bullet proof solution is Diff Technics R200 upgrade. Diff Technics are Australian.

Likewise, one of the best transmission upgrades is by PPG. Guess what, PPG are Australian.

I love what Puddy is doing and if it wasn't for freight I would be all over it. Instead I found a highly regarded Aus diff (and gearbox BTW) specialist and worked with him to upgrade my diff. There is no OS Giken or Kaaz center. The Torsen unit is fine and not the part that fails. I supplied a new crown wheel and pinion and the specialist had new end caps machined and a steel collar turned. The result is a diff that nicely holds the power my car generates. Took 9 months but the results are impressive so far.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

Surprisingly Australia is one of the world leaders in this sort of performance modification. Sure Puddy does some great work beefing up a S2000 diff but the bullet proof solution is Diff Technics R200 upgrade. Diff Technics are Australian.

Likewise, one of the best transmission upgrades is by PPG. Guess what, PPG are Australian.

I love what Puddy is doing and if it wasn't for freight I would be all over it. Instead I found a highly regarded Aus diff (and gearbox BTW) specialist and worked with him to upgrade my diff. There is no OS Giken or Kaaz center. The Torsen unit is fine and not the part that fails. I supplied a new crown wheel and pinion and the specialist had new end caps machined and a steel collar turned. The result is a diff that nicely holds the power my car generates. Took 9 months but the results are impressive so far.

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This guy look after people in melb? wonder how much would cost to send my diff and gearbox to sydney and back LOL!.

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Originally Posted by ALPS

This guy look after people in melb? wonder how much would cost to send my diff and gearbox to sydney and back LOL!.

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I've been calling around and found a gearbox with 54ks on it from an AP1 in japan. he says its smooth as and he'll swap it over with my one and install for 2000. he said he can also rebuild for 2200. what do i do? he thinks i shouldnt bother rebuilding and the one with 54ks is ok, but i think he's just trying to sell that off. i really want an AP2 gearbox from overseas that has the better syncros and gearing ratios. pff, haven't fixed my diff and im already looking at gearboxes. i hope that the diff can last me long enough to save up and get it all done at once and save on labor cost.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

Surprisingly Australia is one of the world leaders in this sort of performance modification. Sure Puddy does some great work beefing up a S2000 diff but the bullet proof solution is Diff Technics R200 upgrade. Diff Technics are Australian.

Likewise, one of the best transmission upgrades is by PPG. Guess what, PPG are Australian.

I love what Puddy is doing and if it wasn't for freight I would be all over it. Instead I found a highly regarded Aus diff (and gearbox BTW) specialist and worked with him to upgrade my diff. There is no OS Giken or Kaaz center. The Torsen unit is fine and not the part that fails. I supplied a new crown wheel and pinion and the specialist had new end caps machined and a steel collar turned. The result is a diff that nicely holds the power my car generates. Took 9 months but the results are impressive so far.

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That's so true haha i just spoke with Diff technics and got a quote from them. I will be definitely going with an R200 diff conversion now. The pricing is actually less then what puddy had quoted me (for the stage 4).

And i've been continuously doing research on which is the best transmission upgrade to hold that much power safely, and turns out that the PPG was the best all rounder for street/ strip/ and track! maybe not the best for 1000whp monsters, but that's not anywhere near what my car would be. So i guess I've made up my mind. Save up like a mo'f*cker! lol

btw, what do you mean there is no OS GIKEN or KAAZ 'center' . do you mean the crown and pinion or the actual LSD unit itself?

Yeh i'de love your diff.. but i can't wait 9 months.. I'm actually getting it done in the next few weeks!

When people with Toyotas and Nissans and other cars upgrade their diff it's usually the center they are replacing with a Kaaz or OS Giken or other brand name. This idea often carries over to S2000s. It has a reputation for having a 'glass' diff and people jump to the conclusion that the problem is the center. It's not. The issue is in how the crown and pinion is mounted and unless you upgrade this you are wasting your time (and money).

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

That's so true haha i just spoke with Diff technics and got a quote from them. I will be definitely going with an R200 diff conversion now. The pricing is actually less then what puddy had quoted me (for the stage 4).

And i've been continuously doing research on which is the best transmission upgrade to hold that much power safely, and turns out that the PPG was the best all rounder for street/ strip/ and track! maybe not the best for 1000whp monsters, but that's not anywhere near what my car would be. So i guess I've made up my mind. Save up like a mo'f*cker! lol

btw, what do you mean there is no OS GIKEN or KAAZ 'center' . do you mean the crown and pinion or the actual LSD unit itself?

Yeh i'de love your diff.. but i can't wait 9 months.. I'm actually getting it done in the next few weeks!

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Awesome. Also, if you want try: Gearbox Logistics (http://www.gearboxlogistics.com.au/)
As i have heard and experienced all positive from them. And YES they do performance cars.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

When people with Toyotas and Nissans and other cars upgrade their diff it's usually the center they are replacing with a Kaaz or OS Giken or other brand name. This idea often carries over to S2000s. It has a reputation for having a 'glass' diff and people jump to the conclusion that the problem is the center. It's not. The issue is in how the crown and pinion is mounted and unless you upgrade this you are wasting your time (and money).

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Ahk, thought that's what you meant. Weirdly, the problem with my diff is in fact the lsd unit lol the owner before me must'av thrashed it's mum :L

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Originally Posted by VeYzZii

Awesome. Also, if you want try: Gearbox Logistics (http://www.gearboxlogistics.com.au/)
As i have heard and experienced all positive from them. And YES they do performance cars.

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Thanks man. I'll check it out. Appreciate it :D

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

Ahk, thought that's what you meant. Weirdly, the problem with my diff is in fact the lsd unit lol the owner before me must'av thrashed it's mum :L

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Ahh, going Diff technics. Good stuff.

Ps. Now that we're on the topic of diffs. I'll be making 350-400whp depending on how ballsey I am on the day and how much psi I'll be running- considering it's a stock motor n all. Don't want any trouble. (and yes I know everything in the s2000 engine is forged lol) anyways. Rekon I should get a 4.3 maybe 4.4 FD? I don't care how fast I'll be shifting. But ide be accelerating a whole lot faster yes? Or are the gears too short for the sc to do it's thing?

Centrifugal SCs produce boost proportional to RPM so can be sluggish off the line unless you drop the clutch. A higher ratio final drive could only help with this, however you will be sacrificing top end and fuel efficiency.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

Centrifugal SCs produce boost proportional to RPM so can be sluggish off the line unless you drop the clutch. A higher ratio final drive could only help with this, however you will be sacrificing top end and fuel efficiency.

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That's why i asked. but if i go with something like a 4.3 i won't be sacrificing tooo much top end.. hopefully lol

hmm. I think my diff set up will be:
-r200a diff conversion to include;
-Quaife LSD
-4.3 gear <-- most likely
-Level 2.9 drive shafts from DSS

.. That should last me for a while lol Thanks again for the help Aus

No problem, but you know my advice is to not muck about with SCs and go turbo from the get go. I went Comptech SC for a while before seeing the light.

why the change? I've always wanted to ask you..

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

why the change? I've always wanted to ask you..

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very good question. i was really considering FI SC most likely in a year or so. got plenty of time to change and make up my mind though. Why turbo? arent they more work, more hasstle? lot of people say the SC is more reliable and less strain on the motor.

lol from transmission to diff to sc to turbo. well off topic.

Turbo is more work and hassle and more strain on the motor simple because they produce more boost/torque down low. The way my car is set up now I am simply never at WOT (Whole Open Throttle) on the road. There is simply too much power and no where near enough traction in the lower gears. It is a blast to drive.

hmmm, see i'm after the best all round track/ street car.. Not an all out monster with never any traction haha I love the supercharger's for the s2000 coz it's rev dependent, like in it's stock form. which is what im after. Stock s2000 characteristics with 100-200 hp more.. Sounds good to meee! lol Plus i want the engine to last as long as possible. I don't ever see myself getting rid of this baby!!

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

Turbo is more work and hassle and more strain on the motor simple because they produce more boost/torque down low. The way my car is set up now I am simply never at WOT (Whole Open Throttle) on the road. There is simply too much power and no where near enough traction in the lower gears. It is a blast to drive.

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What is the max PSI made buy the Comptech or Vortech and are there mods for the supercharger like pulleys?

yes there are pulley upgrades. A lot of people use a 3.2 inch

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Originally Posted by chriis2k

Stock s2000 characteristics with 100-200 hp more.. Sounds good to meee!

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Sounds like a plan!

But I reserve that right to ask your opinion after you've owned it for 6 months. ;)

You can downsize pulleys for more boost but will eventually go outside the efficiency envelope of the blower and then you're just producing heat. You then have to upsize the SC. Then after you upsize the SC again and it still isn't producing any more power you do a slow part out. ;)

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

You can downsize pulleys for more boost but will eventually go outside the efficiency envelope of the blower and then you're just producing heat. You then have to upsize the SC. Then after you upsize the SC again and it still isn't producing any more power you do a slow part out. ;)

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Valid point. But i guess for some the reasonable power boost is satisfying. I have cousins overseas that run 28 PSI on their S2000 on a fully built motor and run into problems. They started with a small turbo and just got bigger and bigger from their.. So i dont want to get a turbo because i know i will do the same.

I started with a GT3071R. After stuffing it recently I did a small upgrade to a GT3076R (slightly bigger compressor wheel) just because as I had to spend a grand I wanted some difference.

With either turbo the car has the potential to produce more power than I can use and only moderation of my right foot keeps me on the road.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

Sounds like a plan!

But I reserve that right to ask your opinion after you've owned it for 6 months. ;)

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Can you not talk me out of buying a supercharger please, thankyou. LOL

(p.s. I'm buying Brads supercharger... so yeh NOVI 1500, should be sweeeet)

Also, i want you to tell me EXACTLY the difference you find in driving both sc and turbo. what power did u make with the sc, what power do you make with the turbo? how much boost for each etc.

Hmm, you want me to tell you my story yet you don't want to be talked out of an SC? :P

I bought a stock Comptech kit but quickly upgraded to 440cc injectors, AEM ECU and downsized my pulley. I also installed the aftercooler kit. i was then running 8.4psi. That's about 5psi at VTEC changeover point. I dyno'd at 217kw.

I then went turbo. At first I was running off the wastegate spring so 7psi. I dyno'd at 214Kw.

But that doesn't tell the whole story. With the turbo I was at 7psi by about 3000rpm. The midrange was there on tap whenever I wanted it. The area under the curve is much fatter.

PS> I'm now running 22psi. Not sure when it hits max boost. I'm too busy watching the road.

Hahahaha that's mad, 22psi!? Have you rebuilt your engine!? I thought the stock block can only handle 14psi..

That 14psi limit is because of the high compression ratio, not the strength of other components. I have a decompression head gasket but apart from that my engine is stock.

Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhkay lol The amount of questions i have in my head right now is endless :P
One more question but !! (please don't hit me lol)
what's the negatives involved in lowering the compression??

The proper way to lower compression is with low compression pistons, but this is a lot of work. Basically an engine rebuild.

You can lower compression with a thicker head gasket. Opinions vary about their reliability. I went through a few of them but that was a tuning issue. Now that the tuning is right the current 2.4mm SCE copper gasket is holding fine.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

The proper way to lower compression is with low compression pistons, but this is a lot of work. Basically an engine rebuild.

You can lower compression with a thicker head gasket. Opinions vary about their reliability. I went through a few of them but that was a tuning issue. Now that the tuning is right the current 2.4mm SCE copper gasket is holding fine.

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Ya. Low comp. pistons would be expensive, but AUS with 22 PSI why dont you get the pistons and do a rebuild at the same time, for peace of mind? Arent you scared something may go wrong?

I have all the parts for a low comp engine (bored and honed block, crank, rods and Woessner low comp pistons) in my workshop. Just haven't got around, and haven't had a need, to put it together.

With a good tune it's surprising how much the F20C can take.

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

I have all the parts for a low comp engine (bored and honed block, crank, rods and Woessner low comp pistons) in my workshop. Just haven't got around, and haven't had a need, to put it together.

With a good tune it's surprising how much the F20C can take.

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For sale...?

Afraid not.

If it is.. SHOTTY !

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Originally Posted by AusS2000

You can downsize pulleys for more boost but will eventually go outside the efficiency envelope of the blower and then you're just producing heat. You then have to upsize the SC. Then after you upsize the SC again and it still isn't producing any more power you do a slow part out. ;)

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Don't make me ban you... :p

Took a while. ;)

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Originally Posted by ludecrs

Don't make me ban you... :p

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Ahahahahaha!!