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Hi I currently have some Morel Maximo splits hooked up to a 4 channel Alpine amp. Rare fill is perfect doesn't need to be touched. I was playing around with the gains for the splits and it doesn't have any filters on at the moment.
My tweeters are a little sharp when the volume is up. The vocals sting the ears a bit. At the same time the vocals seems a ill recessed. Does anyone know what tuning I should be focusing on to correct these problems?
I'd firstly check what db the crossovers are on to split the sound to the tweeters
Might as simple as changing that.
At the moment I got my components on about 80hz with my amp set to high pass
Hope that helps
If u want the filter on the crossover to be the primary use, then set your amp filters to Normal, set freq to 160hz.
if your crossover has different frequency choices, then set the mid to. 120-180hz and the High to 12-17hz.
Then finer tune the high/mid filters on the HU for the listening ears.
Once satisfied, then tune your gains on the amp them the gains on the HU.
At the end of the day, its up to u how loud ad linear you want your setup to be. Just tune it to the sound that your ears will satisfy.
I don't think the crossovers on the Morel Maximos can be tuned.
So what settings do you recommend for the amp? Or is it always going to bypass the settings on the amp and go off the crossovers?
I just found one of the manuals for the Morel Maximos.
http://www.morelhifi.com/support/pdf...imo%202way.pdf
So you're running them passive?
Normally the crossovers will have a 'jumper' or a switch built into them for attenuation of the tweeters.
If they seem too 'bright' or harsh, then you can attenuate them to pull the level down a little. That's the first thing I'd be looking at.
Iirc the maximos dont have tweeter attenuation.
Yeah there doesn't seem to be anything on the crossovers. So what are some ways to tune this down?
My headunit is a Pioneer 7250SD
As i mentioned earlier,Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
if your running these splits off the amp - set the AMP to NORMAL rather than HIGH. then maybe play around with the crossover on the AMP from 120-180hz. Then Finer tune from the HU.
Pioneer systems generally has the Frequency tuning which allows you to tune LOW / MID / HIGH.( depends on which model types)
Basic units will have the below;
Custom1 Sound settings: set the Equalizer curve to:
Set LOW to: 50-60hz +2db
Set MID to: 500hz +0db
Set HIGH to: 10-15hz +4db (play around with this to suit your hearing level)
TURN ON HPF to: 63-125hz
Sub W.1 = Turn ON
Sub W.2 = Set your Subwoofer Freq to: 50hz or lower. + 2db
LOUD(NESS): Set this to HIGH.
IF your tweeter is still too high and pitchy, then try adding an inline capacitor anywhere from 4700 - 8000uf to the Tweeter line after the crossover to lower the Hz if the AMP or HU cannot do the job. - Search up in google or ask Jaycar on a recommended capacitor type to lower the Freq.
Note* adding a capacitor on the tweeter line will override the crossover pre-tuned onboard capacitor.
this would be the only DIY you would have to do.
example here:
http://www.soundfountain.com/amb/garrardschematic.gif
Example.
8 uF = 8000 uf.
4.3uF = 4300 uf.
let us know how u go
None of that will work, if anything, itll make it worse, especially this part
What NightKids is after is the opposite of what youre suggesting. He wants the tweeters turned down because its too harsh, but by lifting the HIGH up its only going to become louder and even more harsh.Quote:
Set HIGH to: 10-15hz +4db (play around with this to suit your hearing level)
As for the high pass filter, and sub settings, this isnt going to do anything to lower the tweeters.
About all that you suggested that would work is adding an inline capacitor.
However, this isnt needed. That model of headunit has a 5 band Graphic EQ, (which is more indepth that just high/med/low) so all that he needs to do is simply adjust the 2 top end bands down by a couple of db until he finds it sounding nicer.
u have no idea mate.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
Placing a an inline capacitor (correct uF/volt) after the passive cross over will override the freq set on the crossover unit.
Go ad get a oscilloscope ad measure the waves of the freq output.
What im suggesting is a full tune not just some dodgy turn down the High pass and away u go.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
Hence why this is an example tune that he can try out.
Gving him the option that splits system is not just plug and play away u go but requires finer tuning to get fidelity results.
If u are familiar with pioneer units, the HPF settngs must be tuned to obtain sound output quality. It allows finer tuning to the equalizer curves and the sub tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
U just dont assume lowering the high pass filter will solve everything but instead will give u a monotone sound.
U have to tune from high - mid - low order.
This is what i suggested. And u just contradicted your own statement above by saying it will not work or will make it worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
And again this is the equalizer curve im talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
What i suggested on the frequency and the boost db levels above will provide a nice linear output. But again this is an example. Why i said play around with these settngs that will suit your hearing levels/needs.
U are correct. If the high freq has lessen due to the other tuning capabilities then its not needed.
Otherwise inline capacitor is the way to go. Or buy another passive cross over unit.
you are correct sir.Quote:
Originally Posted by TbM
as said by trism:
Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
nope nope nope.
We aren't talking about how to get a nice linear sound out of the car, all we are talking about is how to make the tweeters less harsh. But f you want to talk about a linear sound, I digress;
In a perfect world I'd tell NightKids to do away with the passive crossovers, and run an active system, using two channels on the amp to run the midbass, and the other two channels to run the tweeters, that way he could simply turn the gains down on the tweeter channel in order to attenuate them.
However, without an understanding of the best way to tune a system like this, and without a headunit that supports running an active front stage, including a high pass filter above 1.5k Hz there is no point.
I think you are not fully understanding what a high pass filter/low pass filter is. It is simply a cut off point that stops frequencies above or below the point to not get through. But its not just this simple. It isnt just a line that the is the cutoff point. Its actually a roll off. So for each octave that goes past the point, it is lowered by a doubling amount.
So for example, if we are running a fully active setup, with all crossover points set on the headunit, and a sub, midbass and tweeter, we may have a low pass filter on the sub channel, set at 80Hz, and rolling off above that. Its called a low pass filter because it only lets through frequencies lower than the cut off point.
We would set the midbass high pass filter at about 100hz so that it only plays above that, and the low pass filter at about 1.5khz The tweeters would then play from 1.8kHz and upwards.
Because each set of drivers is now on its own channel, rather than using the EQ to set rough levels, we use the gains. So if we feel that the tweeters are a little harsh, we turn the gain down a little. If there isnt enough midbass, we turn that gain up.
From here, we can use the EQ to fine tune the setup. Personally, a 5 band EQ isnt quite enough, when i had a 3 way active setup, i had a 31 band parametric EQ through through an Alpine PXA-H701 processor.
You can use this to adjust particular frequencies in order to get a linear sound. For example, during judging in the MEASQ competition, there was a particular song that was used to listen for resonance at a certain frequency. If it sounded bad in other songs, it would be 10x worse during this song. The fix was as simple as pulling down 315Hz to about -6db, and the resonance was all but gone.
There was another song that was great for finding harshness in tweeters, as the thread is about. all you had to do was adjust the EQ around 1.8 to 2.2khz and it went from ear bleeding to sounding like an angel.
What we can do with the crossover points on the headunit/processor is adjust them to get the best out of the drivers. So i was using Boston Acoustics Pro60 which were known to be able to play down to about 60hz comfortably, which most others couldnt, so i had them play down to 60hz, and then cut off with a stepp 24db curve. I then had my RE Audio XXX play from 60Hz down to 20Hz.
Others may not be able to play this low, so they will need to utilise the points i listed above, with 80 and 100hz
Its all about experimentation, go out, sit in the car and just listen, and play with the settings.
But, back to the original question, and my original argument. all that NightKids needs to do is go to the EQ on his headunit, and turn down the highest EQ point until it doesnt sound so bad.
comon bra ...we dont need to get into parametric or passive EQ's. these kids wont understand a thing! and we can go on for pages and pages of posts lol :pQuote:
Originally Posted by trism
but yes - at the end of the day HIGH/MID range is what needs to be played around here.
just play around with those settings and particularly the HU sound settings. - just make sure u set the AMP to NORMAL.
if ur local then i can tune the sounds of your car which then you can do happy laps around parra westfields and the chicks will check you out yuleh! :p
Thanks for all the help guys. I must admit that I'm a I'll more confused from the more recent posts. Basically what I'm going to do now is go to my amp and see if I can set it to the frequency you guys mentioned. Put the filter to normal (which I think it already is now) then go to my headunit and see if I can lower the two highest frequencies.
Sound good?
NOPE!!!
Just do the last part.
the first part isnt going to do anything.
Excuse my ignorance but what do I set on my amp for my splits in the first place? When I muck around with the hz knob, I can't really hear much of a difference
I think I know what you guys mean by my head unit having a 5 band equalizer. Just did some research and my headunit comes with the following bands. Which ones do I adjust?
100Hz - 315Hz - 1.25kHz - 3.15kHz - 8kHz
the last 2.
100hz would be towards your Low freqQuote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
315-1.25hz are your Mid range
3.15-8hz are your High.
So put less of the Mid & High Freq ranges to eliminate those high pitches on your OP.
If setting your amp to Normal / Full and it doesnt make any difference on the freq knob on the amp then that means u just need to tune the HU.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
Excellent will try to tune the head unit tomorrow and see how it goes! Will keep you all you guys posted ... !
Can't wait to play with the band. Testing track: Adele Someone Like You flac version
How did you go?
Before providing the (somewhat incorrect) advice already offered, we really should be seeking to know more about how your system is set up.
I know Morel products very well (I used to sell them and I also had a full Morel system in my last car).
I'd suggest, based on what you've said, that you might simply want to make the tweeters quieter relative to the rest of the sound.
This will make the sound more pleasnt, particularly when you turn the volume up.
Above anything else first, look at where your drivers are and how they're installed.
Can you tell us more about how and where they are installed?
Mids in the doors and tweeters on the dash/pillars?
Are the tweeters facing straight at you?
That sort of thing.
I'd be paying attention to this first before using the band aids spoken of here previously - high passing this, amp settings that, putting in bypass capacitors here, blah, blah, blah. Forget all that for now (and some of it forever).
So, tell us this frst and I'll advise you from there...
This is going to be interesting. You speak of some expert in car audio systems and tuning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno
Just because you have had previously the same split system brand doesnt mean your statement somewhat overrides everyone elses.
Your system or setup is different to what OP has and wants to achieve. You dont have the same car, head unit, amp, amp wiring kit, speaker locations or the way it was installed.
You just cant jump in and criticize other helpful advises or comments. Being all superhero :)
Its situations like this confuses the original requestor - OP.
Rather than putting people down, just provide your responses in a proactive way rather than reactive.
Just saying.
posting on the wrong account again aye?Quote:
Originally Posted by xV73Cx
Funny you should say that...
I have nearly 30 years experience in the higher end audio industry.
I have a number of years expereince in the car audio industry.
I am the head judge in Queensland in Australia's MEA sound quality car audio format competition series.
I have built a number of pro level cars and hold a national championship from my own car when I was living in New Zealand.
I might know what I'm talking about...
The OP actualy stated that he was confused after your contribution.Quote:
Originally Posted by xV73Cx
I read it, then re-read it to make sure I understood what you were recommending. Your advice was far from helpful.
Sir, your advice was very incorrect and would have resulted in the opposite of what the OP wanted to achieve.
I'm doing something you failed to do - understand the situation more fully before making my recommendations.
I hope you're not a doctor because you'd be prescribing treatments before you know the ailment...
And because I know Morel products (and many others), I do know how to get the best out of them. The basic principles are the same in many cases anyway.
I never said I had the same speaker system. I stated I had Morel products - they do many.
some guy been mechanic for 25 year and not know about vtec,but good u try to help about this idea anyway,also some saleman in hifi only know how to push products for sale figures not realityQuote:
Originally Posted by Winno
What he saidQuote:
Originally Posted by YeahByuddy
Sorry i only have one account dont know about you but your annoying. Go pick on someone your age.Quote:
Originally Posted by ericl33
Cant wait to get my P's yay!
Since we're all posting on alternate accounts, I'll join in.Quote:
Originally Posted by xV73Cx
What 'he said' is irrelevant to our interaction and the principle I'm trying to get you to understand.Quote:
Originally Posted by xV73Cx
So, let's get this thread back on topic now that this is settled.
And who may this lovely lady might be? Your free to join anytime.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jalanelle
As you guys can tell by the time of this post, I came home very late today and haven't had time to play with the settings. While waiting at the traffic lights today I did manage to play around with the different preset band settings and familiarize myself with tuning the bands in custom mode. I tried turning on the HPF on the headunit and it just didn't sound right even at a few different frequencies.
My mids are in the door panel (stock location)
Tweeters are on the dash corner facing diagonally
Ok, it's good that you're playing with things because it's the best way to learn by experience what works and what doesn't.
If your speakers are pretty new, you can expect the sound from them to change for the better subtly over the next few weeks as they run in. Things will free up - bass may become a little deeper and treble may settle down Ok, it's good that you're playing with things because it's the best way to learn by experience what works and what doesn't.
If your speakers are pretty new, you can expect the sound from them to change for the better subtly over the next few weeks as they run in. Things will free up - bass may become a little deeper and treble may settle down and become smoother.
Your set up is pretty typical and can work very well. There are a few things you can do that can tweek it to make it sound a bit nicer.
BEFORE WE GO ANY FURTHER, TURN OFF ALL EQ AND BASS/TREBLE SETTINGS, TURN OFF ALL HIGH PASS AND LOW PASS FILTERS - SET EVERYTHING BACK TO FACTORY DEFAULTS OR ZERO POINTS.
There's three areas you need to focus on to begin with. I've gone into quite a bit of detail but these are simply;
1. Ensure your mids are mounted properly
2. Work on your tweeter angling
3. Adjusting eq settings in the head unit.
So let's begin.
If you can, make sure that your mids are fitted snugly with no gaps between or around them, their door spacers (if you're using any at all) and the door. Any 'leaks' will allow the sound from behind the speaker to come through and cancel the sound from the front of the speaker. This can result in a thinner sound because the bass is being cancelled out slightly.
Fixing this issue enhances the bass and let's the speaker perform properly and give you to sound you're supposed to hear. It also helps balance the sound of the whole system relative to the sound of the tweeters.
Some people even go as far as sealing up the entire door with sound deadening sheets to get truely striking results from 6.5" drivers. I'm not saying you should be going this this extreme but consider if you can, maybe sealing up some of the smaller service holes in the doors as well as securing your drivers properly.
Now that we have that done, let's look at your tweeters.
Many systems with tweeters mounted away from the mids and up high 'can' sound a little harsh. Some people choose to put their tweeters down low in the kick panels or much lower in the doors to combat this. It works but tends to result in a sound that comes from down near your knees rather than straight ahead at or very near head height.
Let's stay with a high mount postion for now and take a look at what we can do with their angles.
Trust me on this one, if the tweeters are in surface and angle mount pods, try swiveling them to face more towards each other. I'd even try swiveling them so far that they start to fire forward and actually into the windscreen.
Try it and see what happens to the sound. Most drivers start to sound 'quieter' when you are sitting out of their direct path or their 'axis point'.
Many high end speaker systems (I'm talking about speakers costing as much as or more than $100k) use this principle to stunning effect. It may also give your sound stage more depth of field so that it's not all so 'in your face'.
When you get things sounding better and you feel that it's as good as it'll get, THEN, and only then should we be moving on to some of the things your head unit can do.
Set your amp to play normal. Switch off all high pass and low pass filters because they don't do what you've been told previously. They're for other stuff.
If you head unit has them, turn them off there too.
Go to your head unit equalizer and if you can, select a frequency around 8 or 10khz to adjust. Depending on how effect your swiveling was with the tweeters will determine how much you may want to turn down the volume on the selected frequency.
If you don't have frequency options up this high, try choosing the next highest one down. Hopefully it'll be something above 5khz. If not, you may just be better off using your standard treble adjustment instead.
If you do have a few frequency bands up high to play with, try knocking back the volume a little on two or three of them and see how you go.
This should help things quite a bit overall. And don't forget that things will settle down from new as your speakers are played more over the next few weeks.
Take your time, and have fun.
This thread has been amusing.
I think playing with the positioning of your tweeters will help with a lot of the harshness that you are experiencing, having played with these drivers before, they are good value for money, but they arent great. The tweeters especially are one of the weak points in this component set.
I have found in a few cars, that firing them across the windscreen, pointed straight at each other helps with some of the 'harshness' that they have up high.
These speakers are as good as you are going to get, on a budget. You will probably find that EQ wont help, as it fixes some things, but adds in problems, or issues of its own. You may end up just having to move them to your rear fill, and upgrade to something better, speakers and ears are funny things, if you do pick something else, take the time to listen to different speakers with the kind of music you would listen to with them, and pick the best from there.
+1 ryzaa (fellow MEA'er).
Sure, Morel Elates/Supremos, and a range of other brand's higher end offerings will certainly help things.
It doesn't change the fact that the Maximo's, as you have said, are a good quality value for money driver set. This is an attempt however, to get the best out of what the OP has in their car right now.
The points I have espoused in this ( amusing :D ) thread can and should be applied to any speaker system to get the best out of it regardless of how much is spent on the drivers.
On so many occasions I have heard 'basic' speakers that have been installed properly out perform by a large margin expensive sets that have literally been chucked into a car with little attention to details.
If the OP pays attention to these basics, they may well be surprised at how good a result they can achieve.
And as ryzaa says, listening before you buy is the best thing you can do instead of trying to compensate once you have bought - the man speaks the truth!
In my car at the moment as we speak on the iPad. Opened up the cover of my amp and filters are off. Currently sitting on 140Hz on the amplifier setting for channels 1 and 2. Checked tweeters and mids we're good to go!
Finished tuning my system. Sounds real good now. I realized that my head unit was on 'custom' with the two highest frequencies on +3 and +4. I lowered both of them to -1 and it fixed the problem.
Thanks to everyone here who has helped. Nice to see some experienced audio people here
Glad its fixed now champ.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
Enjoy the sounds and pump it up!!
Oh yeah it sounds awesome now. Couldn't be happier with the sound. The Maximo's are really clear, I've had them for a while now and only now I can see how their full potential. I've followed your advice and set the amp to 150Hz. Thanks mateQuote:
Originally Posted by XB-16-AX
Good shit
wow, so comprehensive.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno
such a good thread.
Glad to hear that it's sounding better.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
But why run the high pass filter at 150Hz?
Your speakers are capable of playing much lower and by using the filter, you're stopping alot of the lower midbass and what subbass can be produced from being played.
So, you're not hearing anything from 150Hz down.
That's fine if you're running a sub woofer but otherwise, you may as well just have 5 1/4" or even 4" drivers in there.
Just try it with the filter off, or at least set much lower at about 70-80Hz and see how that goes.
:D
No problem bud. Anytime.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
As you get more familiarize with your setup, you can play around with the frequencies on the amp and HU.
As others have said, you can unlock the full potential of your setup.
But in the meantime, enjoy it. If you really wanna see how good your speakers are (splits) play a track from Kenny G - the instrumentals used (sax) will provide Frequencies around the 80 - 160hz OR something from a composed orchestra music like Beethoven or similiar. (100-180hz) :)
Nah no filters are on. I've just got the setting on 150Hz at the moment. Should it be on something else?Quote:
Originally Posted by Winno
If your filters are off then the Freq setting doesnt make a difference, it only matters when you have filters on.Quote:
Originally Posted by NightKids
With no sub i would be running it with filters off.
ExactlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TbM
Ahh ok gotcha! So I was mucking around with that for no reason! lol
No wonder i couldn't hear a difference!