High comp B20 what cams??

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07-08-2012, 09:50 PM
Sideburns1

High comp B20 what cams??

Ive built a b18c that is bored honed to a 2l and not sure what cams to get ive got down to 2 choices but need some advice
This is what ive done to the motor:
12.5:1 comp cp pistons
resleaved b18c block
forged rods
itr head
skunk2 pro valves standard size
titanium retainers
pro valve springs
decked head
itb throttlebodies

the cams im looking at are spec c Toda cams
Toda Spec C 12.5 mm, duration - 255 @ 1mm 12.5 mm, duration - 255 @ 1mm
or Skunk 2 pro stage 3
•Intake - Primary, Lift - .406 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 280°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Intake - VTEC, Lift - .500 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 315°, @.050 inches - 270°
• Intake - Secondary, Lift - .406 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches- 273°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Exhaust - Primary, Lift - .372 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 272°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Exhaust - VTEC, Lift - .470 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 317°, @.050 inches - 273°
• Exhaust - Secondary, Lift - .370 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches- 270°, @.050 inches - 212°

Whats everyones opinion?
08-08-2012, 03:21 AM
GSi_PSi

how many MM are your sleeves ..

are you sure it adds up to 2L

as you would need to jump from 81mm to 87mm bore for 2L capacity

81mm bore and 87mm stroke = 1.8L
08-08-2012, 10:27 AM
Touge Tom

if this is for the street/daily driven? i'd go the toda spec C's as their similar to BC spec 3+ 250 dur @ 1mm.(this is whats in my B20 set up). if its just a weekend/track warrior, go for the skunk2's. just remember the longer the duration the more dynamic compression you'll loose.
08-08-2012, 02:26 PM
gbpracing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

Ive built a b18c that is bored honed to a 2l and not sure what cams to get ive got down to 2 choices but need some advice
This is what ive done to the motor:
12.5:1 comp cp pistons
resleaved b18c block
forged rods
itr head
skunk2 pro valves standard size
titanium retainers
pro valve springs
decked head
itb throttlebodies

the cams im looking at are spec c Toda cams
Toda Spec C 12.5 mm, duration - 255 @ 1mm 12.5 mm, duration - 255 @ 1mm
or Skunk 2 pro stage 3
•Intake - Primary, Lift - .406 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 280°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Intake - VTEC, Lift - .500 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 315°, @.050 inches - 270°
• Intake - Secondary, Lift - .406 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches- 273°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Exhaust - Primary, Lift - .372 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 272°, @.050 inches - 213°
• Exhaust - VTEC, Lift - .470 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches - 317°, @.050 inches - 273°
• Exhaust - Secondary, Lift - .370 inches, Adv. Dur.@.004 inches- 270°, @.050 inches - 212°

Whats everyones opinion?

I have built High comp B20Vtec 12:68:1 and have the Toda C2 spec cams
My engine makes 170KW @ Wheels purpose built for track but these idle nice enough to give you a hint its so not stock but not so lumpy that it cant be used on street
My engineer looked at a few options including Kelford and Cat cams as well as some custom cams made here in Melbourne by Wade
I'm extremely happy but I have a higher degree of mods done and results will vary.
Toda are great but man it took forever to get them !!! I also run the Toda 4-2-1 Race header
Check out youtube... B20Vtec Honda Integra Phillip Island

Cheers

Cheers
08-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Sideburns1

yeah it will be street driven...What kind of power difference do u think i will get between the two? ohh and it will be run on e85
08-08-2012, 09:08 PM
Touge Tom

iv'e seen between 120-140kW with the smaller spec you asked about, pending what other bolt ons you have? and around 140-180kW with the larger spec again, pending on what other mods you have? and this is in extreme cases!
08-08-2012, 09:22 PM
SLOBRO

mine made 134kw with minimal mods lol
09-08-2012, 10:03 AM
gbpracing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

yeah it will be street driven...What kind of power difference do u think i will get between the two? ohh and it will be run on e85

My thoughts on E85 .... a waste..... use more fuel and has other problems as mentioned in other post... Why E85 ???
09-08-2012, 05:43 PM
Sideburns1

high comp im running 12.5:1 pistons and a decked head everyone ive talked to that are running compressions around this area have told me it would be wise to and to prevent pre det and it has a cooler burn and im aiming for 170kw so i think im going to go for the toda c2 spec c cams
09-08-2012, 07:39 PM
Sideburns1

yeah 85 mm bore 87.2mm B18C stroke (That gives 1979cc with these pistons)
10-08-2012, 07:57 AM
gbpracing

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

yeah 85 mm bore 87.2mm B18C stroke (That gives 1979cc with these pistons)

What head flow figures ?
What size are your throttle bodies ?
I don't think 170 Kw will be possible with this set up sorry ! Possibly 140kw - 145kw

Use Of E85
While is copes quite well with the compression ratio, there appears to be no other benefit, unless you had a turbo engine.
However on the down side, it uses a massive amount of fuel compared to conventional fuels, this means larger fuel lines, pressure reg etc. The blow by has a strong tendency to dilute the engine oil. The fuel being an alcohol type is hygroscopic in that it absorbs moisture. You can end up with a catch can that distils its own alcohol in it. Also like Methanol the car can be hard to start cold. While V8 tourers use the fuel they do so for more political reasons.
Cheers
10-08-2012, 09:09 AM
Touge Tom

yeah the V8's might pollute half as much these day's, but use twice as much E85. so really there's no helping the environment at all. it just a scam to raise awareness of E85 (i haven't found any in Sydney yet?) so we buy the shit, get half the klm's a tank, use twice as much. & still charge us the going rate $/per L.
12-08-2012, 09:37 PM
Sideburns1

yeah i already know the down sides of using alcohol based fuels but comparing the downsides to having a high comp engine that wont ping and you can gain more power cause u can increase timing without any real issues it seems worth it to me and i have 50 throttle boddiesand im running the same specs etc as a motor that adrien at toda built which made 170kw
13-08-2012, 12:35 PM
Jccck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gbpracing

The fuel being an alcohol type is hygroscopic in that it absorbs moisture. You can end up with a catch can that distils its own alcohol in it.

Sounds like a good thing to me!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

yeah i already know the down sides of using alcohol based fuels but comparing the downsides to having a high comp engine that wont ping and you can gain more power cause u can increase timing without any real issues it seems worth it to me and i have 50 throttle boddiesand im running the same specs etc as a motor that adrien at toda built which made 170kw

It's just the impracticality of E85 that makes it so much of a hassle.
And 50 Throttlebodies?!
Even if you meant 50MM.. Isn't that kinda small? Even for n/a?
13-08-2012, 12:55 PM
mocchi

probably itb
13-08-2012, 03:43 PM
tinkerbell

i am making over 160 with Toda C/skunk2 Pro2 cams and single 65mm throttle body on 98...

the Pro 3's are pretty extreme...
13-08-2012, 08:23 PM
Sideburns1

yeah ITBs boys read the thread through and thanks for everyones input on e85 its good to know what everyonesn idea on it is but ive already set my car up for it so ile just see wat happens if it gets to annoying then ile retune it for pump fuel......
Tinkerbell if u were making this to get the most power u could which way would u go?
13-08-2012, 10:25 PM
Touge Tom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

yeah i already know the down sides of using alcohol based fuels but comparing the downsides to having a high comp engine that wont ping and you can gain more power cause u can increase timing without any real issues

have you tried using the coldest spark plug the after market has to offer? to help with the ping.
13-08-2012, 10:41 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

Tinkerbell if u were making this to get the most power u could which way would u go?

if it were me? both ways - testing @ the dyno will give you the answer,

i had to go Toda (EX)+ Skunk2 (IN) to make my engine work... but going to change it again soon!

never enough power in the place i want it!

for you - start with something easy to set up (dial in) and see how it goes - have you considered Rocket Motosport? or Endyn?
13-08-2012, 10:42 PM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touge Tom

have you tried using the coldest spark plug the after market has to offer? to help with the ping.

and then have to deal with cold starting problems?
14-08-2012, 09:54 AM
Jccck

Quote:

Originally Posted by tinkerbell

and then have to deal with cold starting problems?

E85 usually means cold starting problems too though.
So you're screwed whichever way you go.

E85 vs Cold Plugs.. Could be worth checking pro's and con's between the two?
16-08-2012, 09:15 PM
Sideburns1

yeah u have cons each way u go but ive got the set up for either so i will see wat happens if im not happy with e85 ile adjust it to run pump fuel......tinkerbell r u running pro3 intake cam? how lumpy will the pro 3s be?
16-08-2012, 09:40 PM
limiteR

Quote:

Originally Posted by Touge Tom

yeah the V8's might pollute half as much these day's, but use twice as much E85. so really there's no helping the environment at all. it just a scam to raise awareness of E85 (i haven't found any in Sydney yet?) so we buy the shit, get half the klm's a tank, use twice as much. & still charge us the going rate $/per L.

so true bro, drove my dads VE towards the city just to fill up on E85. feels nice to drive just a pain to fill up for sydney siders atm.
17-08-2012, 09:15 AM
tinkerbell

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sideburns1

yeah u have cons each way u go but ive got the set up for either so i will see wat happens if im not happy with e85 ile adjust it to run pump fuel......tinkerbell r u running pro3 intake cam? how lumpy will the pro 3s be?

nah mate, only Pro 2

Pro 3 is suited to higher comps than 13:1 and i only have static around 12.5:1