B18 with B16 head OR B20B??

Hey im looking of doing a conversion in my 2000 Ek Hatch i just dont know if i should do a B20B or a B18 with a B16 head i want to stay N/A ive got about $5000 i dont have to have the motor built and in now i would not mind slowly building the motor over a few months if i do the B20B i would like to do forged pistons and rods and shotpeen the crank with just a B18 vtec head for now and do the head later or do the B18 with the B16 head and either get type r pistons and rods or just get forgies.

Cheers,
LowEk

i think you are on the right wavelength mate, good choice in staying NA
i would have to say that the B18c with the B16a is a good combination as it provides the high flow of the B16 head and the low end torque of the B18c
in my opinion i would go for the B20, especially in an EK it is something to be proud of as it would then be something extremely different, also it has good torque and standard is a healthy engine, the internals will be kick ass too you would nearly spend 5k on getting the big fella in there

would love to know how it goes mate!

b20 sleeves are thin as.. thats the downside..

B20 should be ok as long as you don't rev it out too much (unless you resleave). OTherwise b18 is your best bet).

with the B20 if i resleave the block would i still have problems??
i dont intend on reving the piss out of the motor say 6500rpm the would be more than enough revs to make enough power out of.

Cheers,
LowEk

A good B20 will still be happy at 8k..
Personally I go B18C, with a ported B18C head... I'd use CTR pistons whic will make you see almost 12:1 compression, crane stage 2 cams, good valves Maybe 0.5mm oversized and springs, dished retainers. with a good tuned comp you'll see around 160wkw on pump gas and run mid to high 12's

The B18A/B and the B20 are the same block, same crank displacement. Only difference is bore size 81 vs 84mm and sleeve material.

If you're going to resleeve ANY of the above blocks, resleeve whichever you can find cheapest. Resleve it upto 86mm NA or 83-84mm FI

for NA, you cant beat a B18B B20 block at 84-86mm. Port match the head to the cylinders for better breathing (81mm to 84-86mm diameter).

Fact: the ITR cyl head has the same cc chamber as the B16A head. In fact, essentially its the same head.
Fact: the B18B head will raise your compression in a NA combination over the B16 head
Fact: with a large bore engine, the piston dome will not need to be as large to obtain high compression = good thing

So personally, what im saying is, if you're going to the expense to re-sleeve, go 84-86mm, port match the head, high compression, and you'll be looking at close to 300+ whp NA

Cant beat that!

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Originally Posted by ProECU

The B18A/B and the B20 are the same block, same crank displacement. Only difference is bore size 81 vs 84mm and sleeve material.

If you're going to resleeve ANY of the above blocks, resleeve whichever you can find cheapest. Resleve it upto 86mm NA or 83-84mm FI

for NA, you cant beat a B18B B20 block at 84-86mm. Port match the head to the cylinders for better breathing (81mm to 84-86mm diameter).

Fact: the ITR cyl head has the same cc chamber as the B16A head. In fact, essentially its the same head.
:wave: Fact: the B18B head will raise your compression in a NA combination over the B16 head:wave:
Fact: with a large bore engine, the piston dome will not need to be as large to obtain high compression = good thing

So personally, what im saying is, if you're going to the expense to re-sleeve, go 84-86mm, port match the head, high compression, and you'll be looking at close to 300+ whp NA

Cant beat that!

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hey i thought the b16 head had a C\R of 10:4:1 and b18b had a C\R of 9:2:1

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Originally Posted by Mystic_Integra

hey i thought the b16 head had a C\R of 10:4:1 and b18b had a C\R of 9:2:1

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you thought right.

piston domes and cylinder head CC volumes are different for the aforementioned engines.

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Originally Posted by weq

b20 sleeves are thin as.. thats the downside..

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by wynode

B20 should be ok as long as you don't rev it out too much (unless you resleave). OTherwise b18 is your best bet).

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ahhhhh, soooo many B20 "experts"

my B20VTEC revved out to 8500rpm+

ran many 1/4 mile passes and many laps of hard circut racing.

the key was the right support parts, like stronger rod bolts (ARP) and head studs, plus simple Type R bolt ons.

no need to re-sleeve IMO.

b20vtec is much better than a B18/B16 combo, PMK me if you are interested in the details, (or a quote for me to build you one ;) )

howerver - for ease of swapability, non vtec has a very good point, a re-worked B18C will be pretty strong and provide good power too, maybe at a similar cost.

but COST all comes down to whether the 5000 budget you have is just for the engine (ii think most of us above have assumed that)

if the 5000 is also for the engine plus installation, you may as well spend the 5000 on doing up whatever engine is in there now (B16A?) as 5K is not going to buy you much in terms of labour...

(A good B20 will still be happy at 8k..
Personally I go B18C, with a ported B18C head... I'd use CTR pistons whic will make you see almost 12:1 compression, crane stage 2 cams, good valves Maybe 0.5mm oversized and springs, dished retainers. with a good tuned comp you'll see around 160wkw on pump gas and run mid to high 12's)

Has this been tested or is it just what your opinion on what will work non vtec??

(So personally, what im saying is, if you're going to the expense to re-sleeve, go 84-86mm, port match the head, high compression, and you'll be looking at close to 300+ whp NA)

has this been done pro ecu?? how much am i looking at in doing this??

as tinkerbell said i just want to built a motor im in no rush to built it or put it in i can fit the motor myself thats no problem i am keen on what you have done to your B20B tinkerbell my idea on the B20 is buy a B20 block send it to a mate that is a engine rebuilder and do pistons,rods and maybe do something to the crank and in the mean time buy a head and start to sort that out weather i buy a B18R head and just bolt it on and save some money or just a B18B head and do that up not sure yet just wait till the time comes.

Cheers,
LowEk

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Originally Posted by LowEk

Has this been tested or is it just what your opinion on what will work non vtec??

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My friend's b20 did rev happily around 8k (b20 with stock itr head,pistons etc..)

You could always stroke a b18c to 2L

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Originally Posted by Macros

You could always stroke a b18c to 2L

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How exactly would one "stroke" a b18C to 2L?

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Originally Posted by ProECU

How exactly would one "stroke" a b18C to 2L?

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hmmm, lets see, some custom rods, a billet crank and a farkin aweful rod/stroke ratio?

a good way to waste A LOT of good money :thumbdwn:

wrong place to ask this but can u also turbo the b18c after stroking it to 2.0L?

nah sorry 2MPRSS not my goal out of this engine and i would not stroke a engine ill do it the easy way and use a B20 block stroking is a waste of time and money ill take the easy way thanks.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

hmmm, lets see, some custom rods, a billet crank and a farkin aweful rod/stroke ratio?

a good way to waste A LOT of good money :thumbdwn:

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I was sarcastic & was expecting someone to say increase bore diameter :)

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Originally Posted by ProECU

I was sarcastic

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no shit evan!

but still people believe the sarcasim, so why not perpetuate it - this is only ozhonda afterall, where, if you are lucky, 1 in 3 posts *might* actually be technically correct ;)

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Originally Posted by 2MPRSS

wrong place to ask this but can u also turbo the b18c after stroking it to 2.0L?

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you shouldnt stroke a B18C to 2.0L, but if you did, you certainly could turbo it.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

you shouldnt stroke a B18C to 2.0L, but if you did, you certainly could turbo it.

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Yep, very true!

Infact, turbo loves a MASSIVE stroke

so what you guys are saying is that its not a good idea to start with a b18c,
and raise the displacement to 2L?

or do you mean its not a good idea to only stroke it to 2L?

please elaborate thanks

how can you stroke a b18c to 2 litres???????????????????????????????????????????? ?

do any of you know what it means to 'stroke' a engine????????

I stroke my engine every night before I go to sleep.. lol
I would have thought you could use a B20 crank in a B18 and just changed rods, but I guess not..
Honestly when you spend all your money on a B18 or B20 you would have been better off going to a K-series conversion and selling your stock motor..

a B20 what mate? not a B20B, it is the same as a B18B crank, so in a B18C engine you would get a 1.8 litre

if you put a B20A prelude crank in you can get to 1958cc, but with a 95mm stroke, your rpm limit would be about 7000rpm and sideloading would be massive, increasing the risk of you putting a piston through the block or toasting a rod...

a better way to get more displacement is BORING...

hence why the B20B retains the same stroke as the B18B but has a bigger bore (84mm vs 81mm)

now if you REALLY want displacement, you can use a B20A crank in a B20B block and get a 2.1 litre engine :D

ermm.. spoon make stroker kits. We have one in our drag crx.

How much kw increase from B20B with B16 head??? what is the budget of this conversion including the B16 head??

my rough budget is $5000 im in no rush to built it its a rough amount to just built a motor block and head complete not put in car i can do that myself thats no problem.

cheers,
LowEk

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Originally Posted by Macros

ermm.. spoon make stroker kits. We have one in our drag crx.

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

hmmm, lets see, some custom rods, a billet crank

a good way to waste A LOT of good money

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unless it is for a drag car where money is less of an option ;)

B20b block + K20A Piston...and B16 or B18 head, with Type r cams and all...cheap and good...Type R manifold and tb as well...and a programmable ECU ofcourse...injector and fuel press is needed..fuel pump and injector ballast...

total cost you less that 5 k i think....piston + rings is cheap...block itself is cheap...2nd hand Type R cams is cheap...get everything 2nd hand except the piston...hmm..may b 5k is already good to go....

use a B20b block, redo the Crank + balance...go for 86mm piston (wats the STD size of the K20a piston? 85mm or 86mm? tell me if it's smaller..hehehe..)...you don't need to go thru the hassle of what ever B20 crank in a B18 block...waste of money...but anyway...I think it all sum up to good workmanship when u considering reliability...

pgclee - pls post any links to people who have used k20 pistons in b series block

thanks :)

thanks for all the info on this ill prolly take my time and build a good bottom end it will b worth the time and money spent.

cheers,
LowEk

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProECU

The B18A/B and the B20 are the same block, same crank displacement. Only difference is bore size 81 vs 84mm and sleeve material.

If you're going to resleeve ANY of the above blocks, resleeve whichever you can find cheapest. Resleve it upto 86mm NA or 83-84mm FI

for NA, you cant beat a B18B B20 block at 84-86mm. Port match the head to the cylinders for better breathing (81mm to 84-86mm diameter).

Fact: the ITR cyl head has the same cc chamber as the B16A head. In fact, essentially its the same head.
Fact: the B18B head will raise your compression in a NA combination over the B16 head
Fact: with a large bore engine, the piston dome will not need to be as large to obtain high compression = good thing

So personally, what im saying is, if you're going to the expense to re-sleeve, go 84-86mm, port match the head, high compression, and you'll be looking at close to 300+ whp NA

Cant beat that!

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sorry to dig up the dead, but i'm just wondering how much more advantage the b18b head would have over the b16a head in this sort of application? Also, would you be looking at cams as agressive as toda C for example? or something more like CTR cams?

definalty from the DEAD 13-03-2005, 05:26 PM.......La

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Originally Posted by LowEk

definalty from the DEAD 13-03-2005, 05:26 PM.......La

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yeah...... proves i was searching though, instead of just starting a new thread :D

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Originally Posted by EGB16A

sorry to dig up the dead, but i'm just wondering how much more advantage the b18b head would have over the b16a head in this sort of application? Also, would you be looking at cams as agressive as toda C for example? or something more like CTR cams?

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the B18B head is non-VTEC

it has no advantage over the B16A VTEC head.