modding my dc2r. Your opinion

hello readers:honda:

I have a dc2r with only a cold air intake kit. Im planning to get a Mugen cat back twin loop & Apexi power fc with commander. I know its abit costly but what do you guys reakon? Or should i wait & get more engine mods then get the power fc..

I went to Advan [SYD] two days ago and they told me to get a power fc before touchin the engine or it would be just a waste of time touching the engine. :thumbdwn:

But then again the bang for bucks from Advan also say for low buget ( not plannign to get a ecu ) some many mods b4 getting a ecu...

IM LOST.:confused:

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Originally Posted by thanh

hello readers:honda:

I have a dc2r with only a cold air intake kit. Im planning to get a Mugen cat back twin loop & Apexi power fc with commander. I know its abit costly but what do you guys reakon? Or should i wait & get more engine mods then get the power fc..

I went to Advan [SYD] two days ago and they told me to get a power fc before touchin the engine or it would be just a waste of time touching the engine. :thumbdwn:

But then again the bang for bucks from Advan also say for low buget ( not plannign to get a ecu ) some many mods b4 getting a ecu...

IM LOST.:confused:

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The bang of the bucks list are trying to squeeze out everything from your existing stock engine before you make any extra power by the mods, i really think it's a good guide to begin, i will probably follow the list when i start building up my project car

I went through the same when i had my dc2 R in the end for any gain at all i narrowed it down to 2 paths which i never as took as i changed jobs and needed a bigger car, was to either to get the engine stroked to 2.0 then full exhaust mods or vtec controller...

I reckon you should spend money on flywheel, and headers before Power FC. Lightened flywheel makes one hell of an improvement.

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Originally Posted by IRI

I reckon you should spend money on flywheel, and headers before Power FC. Lightened flywheel makes one hell of an improvement.

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how?.. :o

how does it work?? or is there some doubt?

A lightweight flywheel aids in acceleration and engine braking...
This is bar none, the best bang for bucks mod to any NA car...
It does this by having less inertia...
As the vehicle must accelerate the mass of the flywheel prior to putting any power to the ground, any mass lost here is benificial.
Ie: 5kg off the flywheel is equivelant to 50kg off the vehicle in actual acceleration once it's passed through the gearbox.
Down side is some lightweight flywheels can cause an erratic idle...
(NB: TODA flywheels do not cause this problem)
Talk of reduced torque is nonsence...

Caution: Machining the OEM flywheel to become ultra light is a very silly thing to do if you value your testicles... These are first in the firing line should it explode.

Cheers

Source: taken from Toda AU.

^---What type one said

After driving my car (stock) and driving another R with lightened flywheel on the weekend, i can say it makes a VERY noticeable difference in lower RPM before VTEC.

Idle problems happen if the flywheel is too light.

i agree with both IRI and Type one it makes a i dont know if its HUGE but it is noticable .. especially down low. only downfall is that i dont think it really causes a problem but when you driving and you push the clutch down with a lightened flywheel the RPMs do drop faster. but that just teaches you to SHIFT FASTER right =P...

Yes. I believe clutch & fly wheel will improve your car by far. But i also believe its a maintenance thing, when that time comes i will defintely get my self clutch & fly.

OR

should i just change it now to have a head start?

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Originally Posted by Macros

Idle problems happen if the flywheel is too light.

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bullshit mate, only if it is stupid light will that happen, and i doubt anyone is that dumb...

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Originally Posted by thanh

Yes. I believe clutch & fly wheel will improve your car by far. But i also believe its a maintenance thing, when that time comes i will defintely get my self clutch & fly.

OR

should i just change it now to have a head start?

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I'd just change it when you do your clutch... thats what I'm waiting for anyway...

The lightest flywheel for B series is about 3.6kg i think? Which is from JUN and heard that you will stall more easier when turn the A/C on

Well toda should be the way to go, or get a redrilled DC2R flywheel with "SPOON" label on it, which is lot cheaper than toda

toda is cheaper than Spoon i'm guessing?.. but is it possible to change the flywheel when u still dont need to do your clutch?.. or not worth doing or...?

Its possible... just not worth doing if you factor in costs for labour.

Yeah......... just do it all together, if you have extra cash, do final gear as well

Spoon is lot cheaper than toda, about 1/4 less i think, better ask someone who have spoon flywheel, i use Toda :-P

get a ats 4.9
and super single clutch eg exedy/ats/cusco
you will not regret this setup

Get ATS 4.929 final drive and LSD.
Excedy 3 pointsclutch kit and spoon flywheel.
You will feel a lot of torque and more power.

I believe the last thing you should buy is an ECU. You dont wanna buy ECU then buy mods and retune ur car. Its gonna be fairly costly that way.

Attached is a very very very useful stickie bang for bucks mainly bout dc2rs i believe. Well integras in general.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12128

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Originally Posted by Sp3rMz

I believe the last thing you should buy is an ECU. You dont wanna buy ECU then buy mods and retune ur car. Its gonna be fairly costly that way.

Attached is a very very very useful stickie bang for bucks mainly bout dc2rs i believe. Well integras in general.

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12128

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true. i was thinking the same, then why would Advan tell me to get my ecu b4 touching the engine. i also found out that it would cost me another $600 for tuning!:confused:

I think ill just get cat back, clutch and fly, spec a cams for now

you put in spec A cams also have to end up tuning ..

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Originally Posted by edw-R

Get ATS 4.929 final drive and LSD.
Excedy 3 pointsclutch kit and spoon flywheel.
You will feel a lot of torque and more power.

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would it be a spimple plug and play to put in a ITR LSD into a 95 dc2 vtir???..
and would changing the final drive to 4.929 advisable for a vtir??

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Originally Posted by quangsta

would it be a spimple plug and play to put in a ITR LSD into a 95 dc2 vtir???..
and would changing the final drive to 4.929 advisable for a vtir??

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1st question yes
2nd question you will need to get the 1st gear,needle bearings from a 4.785 swap

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Originally Posted by tanghy

1st question yes
2nd question you will need to get the 1st gear,needle bearings from a 4.785 swap

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So it's not necessary to get the JDM 1st gear, needle bearings and stuff to fit the LSD in? Just for saving up labour cost right?

no you don't
but if you're gonig to open up the gearbox
must as well do the 4.785 swap at the same time

My friend got ATS 4.929 on his dc2 with ITR LSD. Better handling and horrible torque increase,

I am using Spoon flywheel.. i can't really tell the differents

coz i fitted everything at once = ATS4.929 Final drive Excedy clutch and spoon flywheel. to save up labour.

the first thing i notice is the car accerate a lot a lot a lot more quicker than stock, and i also drop speed really quick.

when i first have it on, i didn't get used to it on freeway, i was driving 100, when i release the accerater it suddenly dropped to 80 something. and i thought i am still on 90 something..i just get used to the way i drive b4. i think that caused by the flywheel.

i recommend you should get Final drive 4.929 or ATS 3rd, 4th and 5th close ratio gear, LSD, Clutch and flywheel.

You won't regret.
at lease you won't have tuning problem !

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Originally Posted by tanghy

1st question yes
2nd question you will need to get the 1st gear,needle bearings from a 4.785 swap

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NO ! he needs DC2R LSD to fit DC2R final drive.
if not he won't be able to put the ring gear/ final gear into that not LSD thing.
coz the DC2R final drive only will fit on Dc2R/EK9 LSD.

I used to bought EK9 LSD for my EK4, i was also going to fit ATS 4.929 final drive. Since that ATS4.929 final drive is for EG6 an EK4, the final drive won't fit on EK9 LSD and i gave up the LSD, so if you have an EK9/DC2R final drive you should get EK9/DC2R LSD to be able to fit.

If you have already get a final drive for your vtir, if you need lsd u need to get vtir lsd.

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Originally Posted by spoondc2

So it's not necessary to get the JDM 1st gear, needle bearings and stuff to fit the LSD in? Just for saving up labour cost right?

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to be able to fit ITR LSD on Integra Vtir, need to get ITR final drive as well. they won't fit.

you dno't need it
the reason u can't fit b/c b16a has a smaller FD compared to b18/b16b

As i know, All vtir engine gear box are using 4.4 final drive. If they want to go type R final drive, they need to change type R LSD at the same time. Another method, if you buy ATS 4.929 kit, you also can fit it. OR if you want to enjoy LSD and final drive, you need to buy ATS 4.929(for EK9, DC2R) and type R LSD, you will enjoy the handling and more more torque.
ATSEK4 have experience about this situation, if you have any question, i think he can give you the right ans.

4.4 in a b18 and b16a gearbox is different sized, that's why he had so many problmes

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Originally Posted by tanghy

4.4 in a b18 and b16a gearbox is different sized, that's why he had so many problmes

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hmm, when i was in hk for holiday, i saw the differences between b16 and b18 gearbox in my fd's workshop, actually it may be cheaper to swap a dc2r gearbox, less work

My favour would be 98 spec gearbox + 96 spec 4th and 5th gear + "Qualife" LSD hehehehe......... (God damn expensive LSD)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tanghy

4.4 in a b18 and b16a gearbox is different sized, that's why he had so many problmes

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ic, would you mind to be a little bit more specific? Honda workshop told me all these but correct me if i was wrong, i wanna learn thx.

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

ic, would you mind to be a little bit more specific? Honda workshop told me all these but correct me if i was wrong, i wanna learn thx.

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Not 100% sure about everything, so don't wanna mislead you, but b18 ring gear and shaft is bigger than b16, but if you try to use b16 lsd onto b18 gearbox, you may swap the b16 gear and shaft to the b18

Correct me if i am wrong

the b18 lsd & the final drive (physical size) is bigger than b16a
so b16 lsd & final drive and shaft wont' fit in b18 and vice versa

What do you mean?? B16A don't have LSD. B16B and B18C7 are using the same LSD. Andthen, the final drive of B18C5 and B16B are the same. I don't know what "size" you mean.

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Originally Posted by tanghy

the b18 lsd & the final drive (physical size) is bigger than b16a
so b16 lsd & final drive and shaft wont' fit in b18 and vice versa

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size as in physical size ie diameter, not 4.4 or 4.9 (no of teeth)
b16a have lsd from aftermarket co like kazz/cusco/ etc
b18c5 and b16b share 4.4
audm b18c7 have 4.785

yeah not the size of the teeth, its the size of the final drive to fit on to the lsd. my ek4 final drive is too small to fit on dc2r or ek9 lsd.

dc2,ek9 and dc2r are all same sized

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Originally Posted by tanghy

dc2,ek9 and dc2r are all same sized

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Thanks very much...... :)

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

I am using Spoon flywheel.. i can't really tell the differents

coz i fitted everything at once = ATS4.929 Final drive Excedy clutch and spoon flywheel. to save up labour.

the first thing i notice is the car accerate a lot a lot a lot more quicker than stock, and i also drop speed really quick.

when i first have it on, i didn't get used to it on freeway, i was driving 100, when i release the accerater it suddenly dropped to 80 something. and i thought i am still on 90 something..i just get used to the way i drive b4. i think that caused by the flywheel.

i recommend you should get Final drive 4.929 or ATS 3rd, 4th and 5th close ratio gear, LSD, Clutch and flywheel.

You won't regret.
at lease you won't have tuning problem !

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I have ordered a exedy clutch and spoon fly but still thinking about lower final drive. The question is, is it a everyday car? i dont want to constantly changing gears.

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Originally Posted by thanh

I have ordered a exedy clutch and spoon fly but still thinking about lower final drive. The question is, is it a everyday car? i dont want to constantly changing gears.

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what final dirve are u getting?

of course it is a everyday car, Constantly change gear?? A fast car always revs really quick, so you dun wanna have a quick car? y are you getting clutch and flywheel for?

the rev goes a little bit faster, a lot more torque increased. I found no regret fitting the final drive. I dun have any hassels on changing gear a lot. You can find out in someother usa fourm. everyone is happy with the ATS final drive.

The final drive is designed for everyday car , coz it makes a lot more torque. and also getting out of corner.

I can still go up to 170km with my 4th gear. i never try 5th.. coz i dun need to drive that quick.

I'm sorry but a FD does not increase or decrease torque so I have no idea where you guys get this information from.

i was wondering on average how much all this will cost.......flywheel, clutch and final drive? thanks :)

fly 600+
clutch 400+
final drive ats 1000+
labour another 500 or so

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Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE

I'm sorry but a FD does not increase or decrease torque so I have no idea where you guys get this information from.

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According to Honda, as i installed it at honda, and the foreman told me i have gain a lot of torque. hmm.. should i say gain a lot more feeling?

hmm... my feeling is e.g at 5000rpm i feel say 10 "something" when i have my 4.4 final drive, now i feel the same 10 "something" at 4000rpm and 5000rpm have "something" from 5500 or 6000 when i got 4.4. . So it is very good for street i reckon. correct me if i am wrong.. just the feeling tho not theory.

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

According to Honda, as i installed it at honda, and the foreman told me i have gain a lot of torque. hmm.. should i say gain a lot more feeling?

hmm... my feeling is e.g at 5000rpm i feel say 10 "something" when i have my 4.4 final drive, now i feel the same 10 "something" at 4000rpm and 5000rpm have "something" from 5500 or 6000 when i got 4.4. . So it is very good for street i reckon. correct me if i am wrong.. just the feeling tho not theory.

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It makes the rpm goes up faster, which means you can "reach" the torque faster, you car still got the same torque....... for example, the max torque appear in 5000pm, then if you have change the FD, you reach 5000rpm lot faster that's it.......

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

According to Honda, as i installed it at honda, and the foreman told me i have gain a lot of torque.

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Well the foreman should stick to being a foreman and not making remarks like you have gained torque when you haven't gained jack shit bro.

I would have personally laughed in his face....

Accel. increase from changes in gearing and lightening of drivetrain components does not = increase in torque.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

what final dirve are u getting?

of course it is a everyday car, Constantly change gear?? A fast car always revs really quick, so you dun wanna have a quick car? y are you getting clutch and flywheel for?

the rev goes a little bit faster, a lot more torque increased. I found no regret fitting the final drive. I dun have any hassels on changing gear a lot. You can find out in someother usa fourm. everyone is happy with the ATS final drive.

The final drive is designed for everyday car , coz it makes a lot more torque. and also getting out of corner.

I can still go up to 170km with my 4th gear. i never try 5th.. coz i dun need to drive that quick.

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Ummm.......... I dont really think changing gears constantly is a everyday car. Its like playing Gran Turismo, buy a car and playing around and guessing the gear ratios and the car revs like crazy and constantly changing gears when its only doing 50kms. I hope your car isnt like that.

I think when you change your lower final drive, you kill your petrol faster due to higher revs OR constantly changing gears to eat less petrol and going at lighting turtle speed.

Correct me if im wrong

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thanh

hello readers:honda:

I have a dc2r with only a cold air intake kit. Im planning to get a Mugen cat back twin loop & Apexi power fc with commander. I know its abit costly but what do you guys reakon? Or should i wait & get more engine mods then get the power fc..

I went to Advan [SYD] two days ago and they told me to get a power fc before touchin the engine or it would be just a waste of time touching the engine. :thumbdwn:

But then again the bang for bucks from Advan also say for low buget ( not plannign to get a ecu ) some many mods b4 getting a ecu...

IM LOST.:confused:

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Happy,
The bang for bucks thread is from me, TODA Racing Australia...
It is not from ADVAN. Any ascociation I had with ADVAN ended when I left.
Seriously,
Stick to the low budget bang for bucks list & you won't waste your money.
Lightweight flywheel & HD clutch + lower final drive.

Re PFC...
It will work a wee bit, but seriously, on your car it's just not worth it, as yet.
Cheers

Adrian

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thanh

Ummm.......... I dont really think changing gears constantly is a everyday car. Its like playing Gran Turismo, buy a car and playing around and guessing the gear ratios and the car revs like crazy and constantly changing gears when its only doing 50kms. I hope your car isnt like that.

I think when you change your lower final drive, you kill your petrol faster due to higher revs OR constantly changing gears to eat less petrol and going at lighting turtle speed.

Correct me if im wrong

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nah, you are wrong - it is more like need for speed :cool:

but seriously, "lighting turtle speed" ??? you sound like you have no idea...

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Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE

Well the foreman should stick to being a foreman and not making remarks like you have gained torque when you haven't gained jack shit bro.

I would have personally laughed in his face....

Accel. increase from changes in gearing and lightening of drivetrain components does not = increase in torque.

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ahha, coz they knew i have no idea about cars and maybe thatz the way they tell customer who dun know cars instead of make it complicated. or they dun even know.

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

ahha, coz they knew i have no idea about cars and maybe thatz the way they tell customer who dun know cars instead of make it complicated. or they dun even know.

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yes, as it would 'appear' that you had more torque, but in reality it was just arriving sooner ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thanh

Ummm.......... I dont really think changing gears constantly is a everyday car. Its like playing Gran Turismo, buy a car and playing around and guessing the gear ratios and the car revs like crazy and constantly changing gears when its only doing 50kms. I hope your car isnt like that.

I think when you change your lower final drive, you kill your petrol faster due to higher revs OR constantly changing gears to eat less petrol and going at lighting turtle speed.

Correct me if im wrong

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oh man... y are you keep thinking changing gears a lot, dun expect too much .. the rev is not that quick. approx my 1st gear rev up to 50, 2nd 90, 3rd 130, 4th 170km/hr dun know 5th.

petrol is no big deal, its only 500rpm higher than your normal 4.4 final drive.
i can still run 450kms per tank. so i am happy with it.

Seriously, our cars are not even 2 liter. if petrol is a big deal for u. dun waste time on this and spend more time on an Echo. This mean you can never have a very quick car, and fuel economy.

Anyone who are using ATS final drive plz give some comments.
and please correct me if i am wrong. thx

Im planning to order a final drive ( dont know which one yet)
Anyone else who are using ATS final drive please give me your opinion

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Originally Posted by ATSEK4

approx my 1st gear rev up to 50, 2nd 90, 3rd 130, 4th 170km/hr dun know 5th.

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Bro is that the speeds you get to in each gear reving it to the 9k rpm you got your car set to?

there is only ats 4.9 and cusco 5.0 or if you dont' have a type R, then there is type r 4.785 in the market, if u want to order, let me know

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Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE

Bro is that the speeds you get to in each gear reving it to the 9k rpm you got your car set to?

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8500 i think. i still can't get to 100 on 2nd even i rev up to 9300. but rev that high is pointless.. my power is start dropping right after 9.

ATS final drive has a special Coding to make it stronger. so it won't damage easy when over heat.

According to ATS website

http://www.a-t-s-usa.com/ats-product...mparison.shtml

Its shows that Type R and civic Si are both 4.4 in usa.
Integra Type R U.S. spec & Civic Si with ATS 4.929

RPM Gear Final Km/h Mile/h @Shift up RPM goes to
1st 8,000 3.2310 4.9290 55.36 34.41 5200
2nd 8,000 2.1050 4.9290 84.98 52.82 5500
3rd 8,000 1.4580 4.9290 122.69 76.25 6000
4th 8,000 1.1070 4.9290 161.59 100.43 6100
5th 8,000 0.8480 4.9290 210.95 131.10

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Originally Posted by tinkerbell

bullshit mate, only if it is stupid light will that happen, and i doubt anyone is that dumb...

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Whats the difference between "too light" and "stupid light"

4kg is light

<3.3kg = stupid light

if your "too light" was in my "stupid light" range, then i guess you were right, but i reckon your comment was too general to be taken as meaning this ;)

most 'normal' aftermarket flywheels are in the 4kg range...

happy u slut

take me for a spin with your new clutch.fw

hubba hubba

Damn YOU... i was going to surprise you!!!

the best mod I've done to my dc2R so far is install JDM 4-1 extractors ... what a difference it makes.

highly recommended.

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Originally Posted by Macros

Also.. some people are that dumb haha

http://forums.toyspeed.org.nz/viewtopic.php?t=29295

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keep it on topic buddy.... :confused:

Thanx guys for your opinion and feed back, much appreciated. I have got a spoon flywheel & exedy clutch, but not installed yet. I'll let you guys know how it goes once its in. Im also gettng a ATS final drive after my exhaust system.

Once again thank you so much for your output.

Happy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thanh

Thanx guys for your opinion and feed back, much appreciated. I have got a spoon flywheel & exedy clutch, but not installed yet. I'll let you guys know how it goes once its in. Im also gettng a ATS final drive after my exhaust system.

Once again thank you so much for your output.

Happy

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You better off, install everything at once. coz to install the final drive need to take off clutch and flywheel anyway. Safe up labour mate.