K20A Pinging Problem

Hello. I have a JDM K20a engine which has a pinging problem. The car is an EP3 Civic Type R. It has a couple of bolt on mods including: a Gruppe M intake, Fujitsubo exhaust and PLM headers which I recently installed (did not change pinging problem). It has around 93,000kms on the clock.

Pinging can also be called detonating or knocking. It basically just makes a clicking sound at a certain part of the rev range with a certain amount of throttle. It only happens when the car is maintaining a constant speed or accelerating slowly. It does not do it when accelerating hard. It is easy to replicate when travelling 60kms at 3000rpm in 4th gear.

Things I have tried already include: all types of fuels (98, 95, 91, Caltex, BP & Shell), Nulon octane boost and clean, Seafoam motor treatment, all servicing is up to date (changing spark plugs and oil does nothing), Compression is good (1370kPa average w/ <5% variation between cylinders), K&N air filter is cleaned regularly. The idle is a little rough at times. Not sure if this could be related somehow.

I've hit a wall having run out of ideas for things to try. Not sure what my next move should be. The car has been to a reputable Honda mechanic who put it on the dyno and listened to the car under load. They could not identify the problem. Plugging in a Kpro seemed to only make things worse.

Please help.

When i got my Egk20a2 on the dyno my tuner noticed my car was pinging and detonating between 2000-4000rpm, he gave it a first power run and checked it the fuel and timing etc. After he cleaned up the fuel timing etc etc it was well gone after the second and third run. Try getting it tuned?

Can't just plug in a Kpro, that won't do anything. The motor needs to be tuned to our 98 fuel.

as above, def get a tune.

When dyno check was done, did you have your long & short term fuel trims checked together with actual mixtures?
Sounds like your primary O2 sensor is on the way out

Thanks Guys. I"ll consider getting a kpro & tune. Sounds like the logical way to go with this problem.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS

When dyno check was done, did you have your long & short term fuel trims checked together with actual mixtures?
Sounds like your primary O2 sensor is on the way out

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No they didn't do anything like this. The previous owner did replace the primary O2 sensor though. It does look pretty new. Not sure exactly how old it is. I would guess around 2 years (I have the service records somewhere). I have considered replacing it but I think they are around $300. Bit of a waste if it doesn't solve the problem I guess.

Do you think it would be worth a try?

Have you checked your coil packs? Not a common thing, but may cause a slight miss under load that could be confused with pinging. I have seen this in BA-FG Falcons alot

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stndrd

Have you checked your coil packs? Not a common thing, but may cause a slight miss under load that could be confused with pinging. I have seen this in BA-FG Falcons alot

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got that right lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Azz86

No they didn't do anything like this. The previous owner did replace the primary O2 sensor though. It does look pretty new. Not sure exactly how old it is. I would guess around 2 years (I have the service records somewhere). I have considered replacing it but I think they are around $300. Bit of a waste if it doesn't solve the problem I guess.

Do you think it would be worth a try?

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Checking the long & short term trims vs actual mixtures is basic stuff - Need a decent scan tool & accurate lambda meter.
There are a variety of things that can be the cause so targeting though testing so that actual problem can be solved rather than throwing money at a guess.
& tuning the car before the issue is solved may also be wasting money.
The K-pro can be good a diagnostic tool is you have access to one though.
- Check knock sensor output & function
- Check long & short term fuel trims
- Check Vtc cam command vs cam actual (early stages of vtc sprocket failure also sound like pinging)
Other things that may help are new fuel filter & cleaned injectors, but that also may make no difference.
Once the problem is correctly identified though, it can then be solved & after that, yeah, a tune would be worth it.

Hope that helps

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS

Checking the long & short term trims vs actual mixtures is basic stuff - Need a decent scan tool & accurate lambda meter.
There are a variety of things that can be the cause so targeting though testing so that actual problem can be solved rather than throwing money at a guess.
& tuning the car before the issue is solved may also be wasting money.
The K-pro can be good a diagnostic tool is you have access to one though.
- Check knock sensor output & function
- Check long & short term fuel trims
- Check Vtc cam command vs cam actual (early stages of vtc sprocket failure also sound like pinging)
Other things that may help are new fuel filter & cleaned injectors, but that also may make no difference.
Once the problem is correctly identified though, it can then be solved & after that, yeah, a tune would be worth it.

Hope that helps

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Cannot give enough rep for this

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stndrd

Have you checked your coil packs? Not a common thing, but may cause a slight miss under load that could be confused with pinging. I have seen this in BA-FG Falcons alot

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Hi mate. Thanks for the suggestion. I resistance checked the coil packs (Denso: 099700-070) and the results were as follows:
Ground to +12v Input (Black to Black/White) 33.97Kohm 33.65Kohm 33.39Kohm 33.73Kohm
Output to +12v Input (Spark to Black/White) 2.244Mohm 2.212Mohm 2.105Mohm 2.190Mohm

No idea if these are normal values but they are all pretty much the same which is good. The circuit diagrams don't show how the control circuit is wired up so I don't know if I have performed this test correctly. It may need a gate pulse from the ECU before a circuit is made. Also this wont show an intermittent fault if there was a problem. I'm sure there must be a better way to test the coil packs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Adrian @ SAS

Checking the long & short term trims vs actual mixtures is basic stuff - Need a decent scan tool & accurate lambda meter.
There are a variety of things that can be the cause so targeting though testing so that actual problem can be solved rather than throwing money at a guess.
& tuning the car before the issue is solved may also be wasting money.
The K-pro can be good a diagnostic tool is you have access to one though.
- Check knock sensor output & function
- Check long & short term fuel trims
- Check Vtc cam command vs cam actual (early stages of vtc sprocket failure also sound like pinging)
Other things that may help are new fuel filter & cleaned injectors, but that also may make no difference.
Once the problem is correctly identified though, it can then be solved & after that, yeah, a tune would be worth it.

Hope that helps

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Awesome dude. Thanks heaps for the info. This is great.

Are they 100% sure it's knock?

To be completely fair to Honda, modifying the engine at all will render the knock control logic false. Do you have confirmation that your sensors are operating within service limits when it was on the dyno and "knocking"?

Is it possible to get a video of this uploaded?

Sorry guys. I've been busy with uni work lately. I'll try get some fuel trims recorded soon.

They weren't 100% sure it was knock. It would be difficult to capture on video because it is pretty quiet.

Something weird. Took the car to Sydney Motorsport Park a couple of weeks ago: http://autocult.net/2013/11/saunsw-s...cuit-trackday/. Haven't heard the ping since. Maybe I just needed to blow the cobwebs out?

i think i got this pinging thing going on in my car as well

i just never thought anything about it, so ive been ignoring it

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kenny07

i think i got this pinging thing going on in my car as well

i just never thought anything about it, so ive been ignoring it

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Has your car been tuned? if so, who tuned it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by u mad?

Has your car been tuned? if so, who tuned it.

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nope, my car isnt tuned

but i have noticed a click click sound or something similiar of a knocking sound...

and from what ive read on the decription on the first post.. im assuming its that pinging sound, but ive always just ignored it! lol

i noticed the sound first happened right after i installed my PLM headers and i thought it might be the sounds just bouncing off the headers

i just got my hasport engine mounths installed like 2 days ago and while i was driving today, i was trying to hear the sound again but i cant hear it anymore because my car is alot louder now since the mounts got installed

lol

an exhaust leak can sound like a click sometimes

OW,,, I Thing Same
Adrian @ SAS " When dyno check was done, did you have your long & short term fuel trims checked together with actual mixtures?
Sounds like your primary O2 sensor is on the way out.."

hey i have the exact same problem with my JDM ep3R just wondering if youve solved the problem ? and what caused it if so ?