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Hey guys,
I have a DOHC ZC that I would like to rebuild and boost, so the questions are
-is the bottom block still usable if its just pressure cleaned? (its been outside for more than a year)
-where do you buy rebuild kits?
-what tools are required for a diy job (can it actually be done at home?)
this will be my first rebuild so any advice would be greatly appreciated
Get the block inspected, crack tested, bored if necessary, honed etc. Your machinist will tell you if it's usable.
You can buy rebuild kits on ebay. Items like this VRS kit will help:
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/HONDA-CRX...#ht_1036wt_905
And you can get the piston rings from companies like Hastings
To rebuild at home will require a good set of tools. The cleaning (block, head and internals etc), inspection (all parts), measuring (cylinders, bearings, ring landings etc), and preparation (decking, boring, honing, crack testing, balancing etc) should all be done professionally but if you're prepared to research, take your sweet time and stuff up along the way (inevitable for a first time IMO) then it would be a great project.
You will need a lot of sockets and wrenches, power tools (drill, compressor/gun etc), screw drivers, valve spring remover, piston ring compressor, cylinder honing drill bit, micrometer, feeler gauge, assembly lube, a proper parts-cleaning setup, etc etc. It can be done but it's best if you have an experienced hand watching over your shoulder I reckon.
Oh and an engine stand, engine hoist, jack, jack stands, oil pan etc etc.
And you will need new piston rings, new bearings, new VRS kit for the head, new water pump, new belts, new fluids, you'll need to replace a lot of old hoses, new clutch is a good idea etc.
I'd strongly recommend involving a machinist anyway to clean/inspect/prep.
thanks for the info,
i have a bit of experience with all parts of a car besides engine internals, so an engine rebuild will be new for me. Ill take your advice about taking the block to a specialist to be inspected
what do you think of these kits from the US?
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Acura-Int...item53e4c49c13
ive read a few forums and it seems the kit does contain brand named parts.
and do you know of any workshop manuals specific to the DOHC ZC or equivalent?
From what you have said, it seems that it is plausible to get the engine bored and honed at home? with the right tools?
Im in no rush and ill take my time to do research but i would like to do most of the work at home, as i want to use this as my foundation for future builds.
EDIT: with a could rebuild do you think it would be ok to run low boost (10psi) on stock internals?
Honestly, don't just start buying parts. Talk to your machinist about the best way to get the results you want. Often machinists have pretty good sources for engine parts themselves and are able to get them at reasonable rates, and if not will tell you what you need in which sizes. For one, you have no idea whether to buy oversized pistons, bearings etc. until you get your gear checked out. Boring and honing is a specialised job and cannot be done accurately at home. The going rate for a rebore and hone here for a four cylinder is around $200, and maybe an extra $150 or so for the machinist to accurately measure the crank, big ends and main tunnel, then clean the crank, rods and block in a chemical tank. Sometimes DIY is just not really worth it and I reckon this is one of those examples.
I agree with Sam.
If you are wanting to build for boost, you need to first work out how much boost you are going to be running vs what static compression will be optimal for your power outputs. All the machining should be done by and engine builder first so that you know if you need to go first or second oversize pistons, oversize bearings etc & if you need to run a thinner or thicker head gasket.
You then need to think about what you are going to do to your cylinder head. Will you upgrade valve springs, do a port job or run oversize valves?
This is all before you think about fuel, igntion & turbo systems for your power goals
Thanks for the info guys,
Do you guys know of any machinists in Sydney by any chance? If not I was planning on taking the block down to Rigoli's since he is well known for tuning.
My power goals are some what around 150kw, and I'm hoping it can be achieved with fairly stock parts.
Also are the PM7 ecu tuneable? I've read forums with people commonly using turboedit but i assumed it couldnt be done since people have told me that pm7 cant be piggybacked therefore cant be tuned.
Turboedit lol.
Man, this is the 2000's. You swap to OBD1 and get a Hondata S300.
yo josh what if i just wanna rebuild the bottom end so i can run more boost n power? been thinking if i dont end up finding a new car nxt yr im gonna rebuild my bottom end an aim for 200kw@wheels...Quote:
Originally Posted by stndrd
do i aim for standard 75mm piston or try and get the over sized ones 75.5mm?
If ur in Vic, forget hondata, its a overpriced ecu IMO... Trent does neptune for $950 drive in drive out! BEAT THAT HONDATA LMAO!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by dougie_504
And imo i dont see the point of going for such a expensive chipped ecu for such low power levels as ive demonstrated, an easy 130kw@wheels for safe tune, 140kw@wheels on a more aggressive tune but still withing limits, a piggy back is more than sufficient to allow for safe tune with correct ignition, timing and fuel tuning if ur tuner knows how to work with em ;)
But yes, OBD0-OBD1 conversion harness is a must, u can pikup a new harness for 100 from USA, not sure why the aussie dealers charge 2-3 times here when u can import it for for a 1/3 the price!
For availability and the option of picking your tuner I suggest Hondata. An extra $200 for a Hondata isn't going to kill any turbo budget.
And stay 75mm if you can. What's the point of going an extra 0.5mm and a reaping stuff-all extra displacement when you can add more boost instead? Not worth the hassle of buying oversized pistons and rings, boring out the cylinders etc. If you need to go oversized because the cylinders are out of round that's another story. Otherwise don't waste your time. Just get some good strong rods, or even just cryogenically treat them + your pistons.
Just stick a Haltech in it and be down with it. Everything you need and more is available with the Haltech when it comes to tuning parameters, from flex fuels to boost options etc.
If you are going to build the block Barry, you will need to sleeve it and get a good set or forged pistons/rods, along with linishing the crank and running oversize bearings. You may also need to think about bigger intake manifold & throttle body, along with fuel system to meet the needs to achieve 200kw
Why oversized valves?
My apologies, was supposed to write oversize bearings. Have edited my post accordingly
No worries, thanks for the clarification.
My query still stands, why do people run oversized valves?
I know it is off topic but this knowledge will still be educational.
cause race car.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cbauto
I'm up in the air about this.
Endyn believe that oversized valves on the sohc VTEC motors helps make power, partially because the VTEC only increases intake duration.
And I'm using Jun oversized valves in my B16A head which Skunk2 believes will yield up to 10HP with their camshafts (got my mechanic to enquire with them as they don't recommend o/s valves due to valve-valve clearance but I've had the engine clayed).
Very simply oversized valves improve the potential power ceiling of an engine. Engines are an air pump. The more air in the more power out. Oversized valves (can) improve airflow into an engine and really improve performance if the valves are the restriction in the whole equation of filling the cylinders quickly and efficiently. There is of course much more to it (air velocity, fuel atomization, squish, flame travel, opening events, exhaust back pressure and pulse widths etc) but in simplistic terms larger valves=more air:fuel=more power.
I saw a 7% power increase on my Peugeot 205 GTi (8v) going to a 1.5mm O/S inlet valve with no other modifications. Power improvement was pretty much from 3000 onwards, too.
Hondas would never see that kind of improvement as their combustion chamber design is pretty much the best on the planet and without a lot of R&D, these kind of mods often set a tuner back.
Im guessing the best upgrade from a stock block would be conrods, what would a good aftermarket set for a DOHC ZC?
Also if I make harness odb0 to odb1, do i still use the pm7?
no, you'd use an obd1 p28 for example, sohc vtec ecu and get a s300 to matchQuote:
Originally Posted by RackCity
so i can use a sohc vtec ecu on a non vtec dohc?
its not desirable, but yes it's an option.Quote:
Originally Posted by RackCity
read here for a better idea:
http://www.hondata.com/engines.html
For what you plan on doing for your ZC turbo build I would recommend a Haltech computer over a Hondata. Easier to find a tuner, more tuning parameters and just a better unit in general.
cbauto, with the oversize valves, its just another step in the equation to allowing the engine to breath better. Some setups may only require oversize intake valves, some may only require oversize exhaust (more turbocharged engines) and some may require both (heavily built high comp n/a engines).
Ok thats good, because the local tuner JEM supplies Haltech, do these piggyback on to the ecu?
Haltech is a full stand alone engine management. You will need to get a Sprint and wire it in
hence why a hondata is being suggested. its a piggyback per se and doesn't require anything extra.Quote:
Originally Posted by stndrd
end of the day it comes down to what rackcity wants lol. the haltech would be an exceptional piece of gear if you go down that path, no doubt. but time and $$$ required is a big factor
Im not looking for big gains, this is a first big project of mine and I would like to just go for the best bang for buck options.
I would like the keep the engine block pretty much stuck and run low boost as well as e85 if possible.
Since hondata is a piggyback, I'm guessing it would be way cheaper than haltech.
What ecu would be best suited for the DOHC ZC, i know a list was posted previously but i dont know how to translate that to the audm civics.
the problem i have found with haltech and microtech etc is that the cold starts and idles are sometimes... umm shit but with a daughter board system like hondata you are only making adjustments rather then starting entirely from scratch and TBH even if u aint tune i recon the hondata as a diagnostic tool is awsome
Haltech comes with preset base maps, just like your Hondata, so you are still making adjustments instead of completely rewriting the ignition compensation tables for cold starts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveho1
Hondata isnt a piggy back system, its a chip replacement for OBD1 ECU, Hondata S100, S200 (discontinued) and S300 are all chips at the end of the day, same with neptune and chrome, were as Apex-i Power FC and as mentioned the more expensive stand alone AEM and Haltech, all are true stand aloneQuote:
Originally Posted by RackCity
A greddy E-manage is a true piggy back as it intercepts the ecu signals going in and out of the ecu and changes the values allowing for tuning for boost, bigger injectors, timing etc etc, infact this applies for all piggy backs
Stick to what ever ur tuners most happy with and comfortable using, pointless us telling you OP that this an this is better without consulting the guys who will actually tune ur car