Lowering my 05 Civic, Springs vs. Coilovers?

Hey everyone,

How do I go regarding lowering my 05 ES1 Civic 5MT?

I've done a lot of research and I found out that most people recommended aftermarket springs if the car doesn't see the track much or if I don't care that much about performance.

I rarely ever track my car, may be something like once a year or so, but I always go for some spirited drives every now and then on my way back from work. I usually finish work around 11pm and the streets are clear at this time and I gun it around roundabouts and bends on my way home... etc.

At the moment the car only has 117,000km and the stock suspension are in perfect working order, both factory shocks and struts seem to have at least another 70,000km to go before they give up. Only problem is, car sits way too high on them and the handling is nothing to be proud of :( car leans way too much in corners and steering lacks good control and direction. (I used to drive my brother's R34 Skyline GTR a lot before it got stolen, crashed and written off, so I can easily distinguish a good handling car from garbage)

My concerns are:

1) I heard that coilovers have shorter life span, I heard my build will last less than just going with springs and aftermarket shocks, is that true? And if that's true, how short are we talking? 25,000km?

2) Everyone is talking about how painfully uncomfortable coilovers are, specially on long highway trips. I'll be at least driving up to Sydney once a year or so (I live in Melbourne). Someone on the civicforums.com was saying that he had the most painful trip of his life driving interstate in his EK Civic with coilovers.. He said he was extremely fatigued after 6 hours of driving and had to soldier on for another 4 hours till he reached his destination.

3) Cost, for my needs is it worth it to spend that kind of money on coilovers? Or should I just go with Tein or Eibach springs and may be KYB/Koni shocks?

4) I am afraid to go with aftermarket springs and not get the low I am after, I heard that aftermarket springs would give you a max of 1.5-2 inches drop and it seems that my car will be needing more than that (check photos below).

Here are some photos of the car

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_9095.jpg

These are some massive wheel gaps
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_1104.jpg

http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_1103.jpg

Can easily fit 5 fingers between the fender and wheels
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_1106.jpg
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_1107.jpg

About an 85mm wheel gap
http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...7/IMG_1108.jpg

People will say get coil overs, do it once do it right etc
But if you're after a mild drop than springs will be just fine, even better if you match it with a aftermarket shock combo. IMO, and what I have read on the interwebs springs that drop the car more than 2inches will rapidly decrease your oem shock life so if you want a >2inch drop better off with coil overs.

It all comes down to personal preferences.
Countless threads on OzHonda debating Springs VS Coilovers and its a never ending debate.

Both system has its up sides aswell as down sides.

The main thing that are good about coilovers is that its Height adjustable, Damper adjustable all in one unit

But for your setup I would go for some Ground Control Springs. They are springs that can be adjusted like Coilovers
but uses your standard Shocks. Making the price less than half the price for a full coilover system.
And then maybe go for some Koni Damper Adjustable shocks later on in the future.

Ground Control Springs + Koni Shocks would be best.
But like I said. Its all about personal preferences

And as of comfort. You will eventually get used to it. My car has coilovers with Custom Springs
and I honestly dont think its uncomfortable at all. And if your friends complain then you can simply put the damper down
and if thats still uncomfortable then tough luck. Most shocks on lowest damper is almost as soft as stock.
You build your car to what pleases you. Not others.

Plus, Having a girl with a nice set of boobs in a stiff car... I aint complaining lol

Just get aftermarket struts with oem springs

OK, so I am back from overseas and I've been researching a lot about "coilovers vs. springs", and I decided I am going to go with coilovers mainly coz it's gonna work out to be about the same price or a bit cheaper anyway..

If I go with Ground Controls and Konis:

Ground Controls are $346 AUD + shipping $89 AUD = $435

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231013658...84.m1423.l2649

Koni Yellows for my car are $800 AUD, so all together that's $1235 for a Koni Yellow shocks and Ground Control Springs setup.

While if I go with coilovers,

I'll probably go with BC Racing BR series, costing $1299 with free shipping, from eBay (JustJap).

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131095053...84.m1423.l2649

Or I can save $100 and go for the BC Racing entry model coilovers the V1 Series, they are $1,199 with free shipping, from eBay (JustJap). Worth it?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131095679...84.m1423.l2649

Are there any other options I should consider in this price range? In terms of performance, would a coilover setup work out better than going shockers and springs separate?

The car would rarely be tracked, but I still wouldn't mind having a decently fast street car.. May be not fast yet until I do a K-swap and get rid of that D17 engine but a nice handling car would be fun to drive for the time being.. :p

the koni/gc will have a much better damping capability than the BCBR's and will be able to handle better over bumps than the BC's.

the BC dampers also have half the lifespan of that of the konis.

I am biased as i had 100000k old koni's lol


there is no difference between the two, they are both essentially 'coilovers' but the konis are just better dampers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curtis265

the koni/gc will have a much better damping capability than the BCBR's and will be able to handle better over bumps than the BC's.

the BC dampers also have half the lifespan of that of the konis.

I am biased as i had 100000k old koni's lol

there is no difference between the two, they are both essentially 'coilovers' but the konis are just better dampers

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He noes...

Now I am really confused :S

How much longer lifespan we're talking? 10,000km?

The KONI and BCBR's are both rebuildable, so they can both be run again after they're used their initial lifespan, correct?

As long as the shaft is ok, you can always replace seals and the gas/liquid in them.

I know this is true for Koni but BCs no idea...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

Are there any other options I should consider in this price range? In terms of performance, would a coilover setup work out better than going shockers and springs separate?

The car would rarely be tracked, but I still wouldn't mind having a decently fast street car.. May be not fast yet until I do a K-swap and get rid of that D17 engine but a nice handling car would be fun to drive for the time being.. :p

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If you're only on the street, all the more reason to go for something that dampens better. Circuit you can get alway somewhat with stiff as hell coilovers which are underdampened because of the road conditions you're on however this becomes a big issue when you're on Aussie roads which are ****.

As long as you don't go to extremes with the Koni + GCs [Damper rate and height], they'll be much much better for the daily drive.

would you choose a soniq,hisense lcd tv or samsung,panasonic,sony ??

i would prefer the reputable quality brands :)

Ok, so to make sure I got that straight,

1- BCBR's coilovers are going to provide the same track and street performance as KONI shockers and Ground Control springs combo, yeah?

2- KONI shockers are of higher quality than the shockers that come with the BCBR's and have better damping capabilities on street bumps and the lovely Melbourne potholes than BCBR's, correct?

3- KONI shockers and Ground Control springs setup will have an overall longer lifespan than BCBR's before the shockers require rebuilding, yeah?

Does anyone know a good supplier for KONI in Melbourne?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

Ok, so to make sure I got that straight,

1- BCBR's coilovers are going to provide the same track and street performance as KONI shockers and Ground Control springs combo, yeah?

2- KONI shockers are of higher quality than the shockers that come with the BCBR's and have better damping capabilities on street bumps and the lovely Melbourne potholes than BCBR's, correct?

3- KONI shockers and Ground Control springs setup will have an overall longer lifespan than BCBR's before the shockers require rebuilding, yeah?

Does anyone know a good supplier for KONI in Melbourne?

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1) Incorrect - According to my experiences with a fair few BCs including BR... Track should not be too far apart however street wise the Koni setup gives you confidence which cannot be said for the BCs

2) Yes

3) So far from majority, it would seem the case, only people complained about Koni are those that dump their cars on their guts which they're not designed for.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

OK, so I am back from overseas and I've been researching a lot about "coilovers vs. springs", and I decided I am going to go with coilovers mainly coz it's gonna work out to be about the same price or a bit cheaper anyway..

If I go with Ground Controls and Konis:

Ground Controls are $346 AUD + shipping $89 AUD = $435

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/231013658...84.m1423.l2649

Koni Yellows for my car are $800 AUD, so all together that's $1235 for a Koni Yellow shocks and Ground Control Springs setup.

While if I go with coilovers,

I'll probably go with BC Racing BR series, costing $1299 with free shipping, from eBay (JustJap).

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131095053...84.m1423.l2649

Or I can save $100 and go for the BC Racing entry model coilovers the V1 Series, they are $1,199 with free shipping, from eBay (JustJap). Worth it?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/131095679...84.m1423.l2649

Are there any other options I should consider in this price range? In terms of performance, would a coilover setup work out better than going shockers and springs separate?

The car would rarely be tracked, but I still wouldn't mind having a decently fast street car.. May be not fast yet until I do a K-swap and get rid of that D17 engine but a nice handling car would be fun to drive for the time being.. :p

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pm me When you are free.
I can get you BC BR Gold Edition for $1250 Brandnew with 12 month Warranty.
Located in Melbourne aswell so shipping fee or long waits wont be a problem

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadAngel

3) So far from majority, it would seem the case, only people complained about Koni are those that dump their cars on their guts which they're not designed for.

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+1 :thumbsup:
I went BC BR Gold cause my car is a Carpark Whore. Sits there and looks pretty.
Custom spring rates to 10:8 with max damper isnt as bad as people say it would be. I've taken people in it
and they dont find it back breaking or anything. Even the girls dont complain... As much..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

Does anyone know a good supplier for KONI in Melbourne?

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pm senna

they can post to melb no problems

you won't need to use the warranty on the konis

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lilthug

pm senna

they can post to melb no problems

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Suspension City in North Melbourne next to Typre Power. Ask Tyre Power North Melbourne.
They do alot of Suspension work and well known for their Stanced cars.

This thread has been a great help, thanks for everyone that contributed. I appreciate it.

I'll be placing my order for the Ground Controls from the US today, I asked if they can send them via sea shipping, it should bring shipping costs down from $90 to around $40 and they'll take 4 weeks to arrive vs. 2-3 weeks if I go with air shipping. (I don't mind the wait, what's an extra week gonna do for me :)).

I tried looking for Ground Control dealers in Australia but couldn't find any, does anyone know any? Or do they have to be ordered from overseas?

And with the Ground Control springs you get to choose custom spring rates, I have no idea what that is or what rates to go for? :/ Can anyone shed some light please?

And last question, are there any other height adjustable springs worth having a look at other than Ground Controls? Tein may be or any other Jap made stuff?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honda_FD

pm me When you are free.
I can get you BC BR Gold Edition for $1250 Brandnew with 12 month Warranty.
Located in Melbourne aswell so shipping fee or long waits wont be a problem

---

Thanks man, I'll make you my first point of contact if I had a change of my mind and decided to go with the BCBR's coilovers

Quote:

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Originally Posted by lilthug

pm senna

they can post to melb no problems

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I pm'ed him this morning, thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Honda_FD

Suspension City in North Melbourne next to Typre Power. Ask Tyre Power North Melbourne.
They do alot of Suspension work and well known for their Stanced cars.

---

I'll email them tonight after finishing work, thank you

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

And with the Ground Control springs you get to choose custom spring rates, I have no idea what that is or what rates to go for? :/ Can anyone shed some light please?

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Most coilover systems come with 6kg front and rear.
Which is a bit stiffer than stock with max damper.

But if you plan on lowering the car alot then go a little higher.
Mines 10:8 on max damper. Not as bad as people say it is...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

And with the Ground Control springs you get to choose custom spring rates, I have no idea what that is or what rates to go for? :/ Can anyone shed some light please?

And last question, are there any other height adjustable springs worth having a look at other than Ground Controls? Tein may be or any other Jap made stuff?

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What options do they give you or they'll do whatever you want?

How low are you planning to go? What other mods are you planning for the car?

iirc your ES Civic suspension layout is same as the EP3 so it has:

F - Macpherson
R - Double Wishbone

So be mindful that Macpherson once you start bumping up the spring rate, it will be ~2x sensitive/harsher than your DWB. I'd personally go a softer front and a slightly harder rear spring to balance.

As for what spring rate, its a lot to do with your personal tolerance and expectations. I'd go with a softer overall setup then use swaybars, tires, bushes and slightly more aggressive alignment to get the car to handle better rather than use stiff springs to eliminate body roll and sharpen car response only to lose confidence in the car due to its overly sensitive nature.

When I say overly sensitive nature, think of an unpredicted bump in the road while cornering. You don't want the car not to react to it harshly by bouncing over it thus car isn't in full contact with the road making anything [Steering, Braking or Accelerating] a bit of an issue. You want the car to absorb the bump while remaining in full contact with the road. This is a one off situation to illustrate but when we all go for a spirited drive and push it hard, we want the confidence that the car will remain planted in all situations :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadAngel

What options do they give you or they'll do whatever you want?

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I am not too sure, they didn't specify, the lady just asked me if I had any desired spring rates in mind!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DreadAngel

How low are you planning to go? What other mods are you planning for the car?

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Other mods that I'll be getting soon are gonna be rear sway bar, front and rear strut bars, sometime at the end of this year I'll get EP3R/DC5R brakes kit (May be JDM DC5R Brembos if I found a good deal? :P) and in the far future a k20/K24 swap after that D17 starts getting tired


That's the kinda of low I am after if that'll help reach a decision on what spring rates to get.. about two or one and half fingers gap between the tyres and the fenders


http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...s/devant10.jpg


http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...cs/161i1kw.jpg


http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/...59dd573477.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mysterious_7

I am not too sure, they didn't specify, the lady just asked me if I had any desired spring rates in mind!

Other mods that I'll be getting soon are gonna be rear sway bar, front and rear strut bars, sometime at the end of this year I'll get EP3R/DC5R brakes kit (May be JDM DC5R Brembos if I found a good deal? :P) and in the far future a k20/K24 swap after that D17 starts getting tired

That's the kinda of low I am after if that'll help reach a decision on what spring rates to get.. about two or one and half fingers gap between the tyres and the fenders

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Hmmm... Ok...

Probably best to get springs on the soft side since we're not 100% on the K20 swap [Far future most likely change afterall]. Moderate drop like that... I'd go probably around...

F - 3.5-4.0k
R - 6.25-6.75k

NB: Higher spring rate at the rear to account for the Sedan shape, these above spring rates are modified from my work with EP3R.

Definitely best to go for coilovers over springs. At least you can adjust the ride height if you're not happy with the clearance or ride quality.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Civic1990

Definitely best to go for coilovers over springs. At least you can adjust the ride height if you're not happy with the clearance or ride quality.

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My neg finger itches

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Civic1990

Definitely best to go for coilovers over springs. At least you can adjust the ride height if you're not happy with the clearance or ride quality.

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Not necessarily... Ground Control Springs + Damper Adjustable Koni Shocks
Is probably the best combination you can get. Thats if you use them the way they were designed.
Not slammed against the ground.

Coilovers are good to go low because the shocks dont get compressed. Instead the whole unit moves
and the shocks and springs stay in the same spot. Other than that, Coilovers are shithouse. Noisy as ****
Thats me speaking through experiences..