B16A2 tuning

HI friends,

I have following setup in my EG civic.

B16A2
Xforce Headers
Exhaust
Cold Air Intake with POD filter

recently i am feeling that my car acceleration is not like as it was before(i have never tuned it) though on all RPM range it is lacking but specially on high RPMs it gains acceleration too slow.

what could be the issue do i need to tune up my car? i have plan to change the fueling system means injectors, rail and pump, can anyone suggest me compatible combination
of them (for example injector size cc, company and fuel pump etc) and my engine in stock will that make any difference in acceleration? i can spend upto 800-1000 what else i can upgrade in this budget to boost the perfomance?

Thanks in advance

A tune will cost more than $1000 when you factor in the cost of a tunable ECU (generally Hondata S300).

But that's beside the point, if you are positive your engine is underperforming compared to before then something could be wrong. -and tuning doesn't fix problems with a stock car.

If you're 100% sure it's not just that you are getting used to the cars performance and it really is losing power I recommend locating/diagnosing the issue before buying any more performance parts.

Run a compression test, make sure all the cylinders are producing similar pressure. Check for exhaust leaks (this can rob you of power). Have you bottomed out and mashed the underside of your xforce header?

Is your air filter on your CAI located in the bumper/guard? When was the last time it was cleaned/replaced or how long has the CAI been installed?

These are just a few generally easy things to turn your attention to for a start.

Regarding your fuel system, you still have a stock engine so there's really not any point upgrading the fuel system. The stock system will be sufficient. You might see a tiny increase in performance if you run some really good injectors/FPR/pump with a tune but this is way outside your budget.

With your $1000 budget you might consider picking up a second hand DC2R gearbox. Having short ratios and an LSD will give you far better performance than anything you can bolt on to the engine in that price range.

Thanks Super-DA9 for such a prompt reply.

I have recently installed new extractors one month ago so there is no hole or leakage in piping, yes leak in exhaust can be the reason i will check it because now a days i am feeling noticeable change in exhaust sound, sounding a bit rough.

And air intake is not that deep, it is fitted in place of stock box with a welded metal piece. and i think on last service filter was cleaned with vacuum and blower to catch the dust, CAI is around 2 years old once i asked my mechanic to change the filter he said this is for once in a car life unless broken.

With B16A2 gearbox installed in my car first 3 gears pulls very hard but later 4th and 5th usually take some time to build the rythm. Could you tell me what is the difference between gearbox of DC2R and B16A2(i have s80).? and could gearbox of an integra DC2R be match with B16A2?

One of my mate's was suggesting me to change the intake manifold and spark plugs what do you recommend?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eridzone

Thanks Super-DA9 for such a prompt reply.

I have recently installed new extractors one month ago so there is no hole or leakage in piping, yes leak in exhaust can be the reason i will check it because now a days i am feeling noticeable change in exhaust sound, sounding a bit rough.

And air intake is not that deep, it is fitted in place of stock box with a welded metal piece. and i think on last service filter was cleaned with vacuum and blower to catch the dust, CAI is around 2 years old once i asked my mechanic to change the filter he said this is for once in a car life unless broken.

With B16A2 gearbox installed in my car first 3 gears pulls very hard but later 4th and 5th usually take some time to build the rythm. Could you tell me what is the difference between gearbox of DC2R and B16A2(i have s80).? and could gearbox of an integra DC2R be match with B16A2?

One of my mate's was suggesting me to change the intake manifold and spark plugs what do you recommend?

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About that CAI, if the air filter is mounted in the engine bay where the factory air box was then that is a "short ram intake" not a cold air intake. These intakes suffer from heat soak due to the hot atmosphere in the engine bay. People just use them because they sound cool. The heat will definitely be robbing you of some performance.

The DC2R version of the S80 has a torsen LSD, shorter ratios and most importantly a 4.7 ratio final drive gear. This is the most important part, the shorter gearing and final drive will put your engines power to the ground more effectively at the cost of having higher RPM at cruising speeds (5th 100km/h is at about 3800-3900RPM). Yes all B series manual gearboxes are interchangeable.

Your current intake manifold should be sufficient for the stock engine, it's already a manifold with single stage runners so getting a slightly bigger one wont yield much added performance, not to mention you will most likely need a tune to actually get any gain from it at all. Again though, focus on fixing any potential issues before buying more performance parts.

Regarding spark plugs, just use the NGK reccomended ones. Don't waste money on iridiums or platinums. There is no benefit using these on a stock engine.

Good luck finding the issue/s if there are any :thumbsup:

many thanks

this weekend i will fix the issue (i doubt about exhaust) now i am convinced for DC2R box do you have any for sale?

i am trying to get a box i have found separate gears sets from MFactory they are relatively cheaper Type R gearbox is around 1500 and gear sets are available online at 500-600.

anyone has any idea about using custom gear sets in their boxes or had any experience of configuring it themselves?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by eridzone

i am trying to get a box i have found separate gears sets from MFactory they are relatively cheaper Type R gearbox is around 1500 and gear sets are available online at 500-600.

anyone has any idea about using custom gear sets in their boxes or had any experience of configuring it themselves?

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Type R gearboxes vary in price based on who's selling. Buying the gears will be cheaper but have you factored in synchros, bearings and labour for the transmission shop (or wherever) to do it?

could also look into lsvtec swap

and just keep the gearbox you have now

the 1/4mile drag between 96 4.4 and 98 spec itr with 4.7 fd was a bee dick difference

Tred starta plz put k seree mota

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EKVTIR-T

could also look into lsvtec swap

and just keep the gearbox you have now

the 1/4mile drag between 96 4.4 and 98 spec itr with 4.7 fd was a bee dick difference

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could you please explain "lsvtec" i know the difference but my box is showing some signs of age, have minor crunches aswell, thats why i am focusing on new box.

You are better off using the s4c ratios and fitting an aftermarket LSD & final drive, along with a bearing & synchro kit. This gives you piece of mind that your box is 100% instead of purchasing a second hand box that you don't know the condition of.

But before you go and do any of that, when was the last time you did a major service on it (replaced all fluids & filters, spark plugs & leads)? I would start with that before spending any money on modifications. While you are at it, carry out a compression and leak down test so you know the health of the motor and go from there.

Also, on a B16A2, there is no need to change intake manifold to a larger volume one, as it will cause you to loose hp everywhere. The only reason I would change the manifold would be if you were to do a LS/VTEC or B16/B18 engine combo.

The LS/VTEC build is where you take a B18B or B20B bottom end (which are massive torque producers due to the stroke length) and fit a vtec head to it, increasing the performance of the engine greatly for not alot of investment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by stndrd

You are better off using the s4c ratios and fitting an aftermarket LSD & final drive, along with a bearing & synchro kit. This gives you piece of mind that your box is 100% instead of purchasing a second hand box that you don't know the condition of.

But before you go and do any of that, when was the last time you did a major service on it (replaced all fluids & filters, spark plugs & leads)? I would start with that before spending any money on modifications. While you are at it, carry out a compression and leak down test so you know the health of the motor and go from there.

Also, on a B16A2, there is no need to change intake manifold to a larger volume one, as it will cause you to loose hp everywhere. The only reason I would change the manifold would be if you were to do a LS/VTEC or B16/B18 engine combo.

The LS/VTEC build is where you take a B18B or B20B bottom end (which are massive torque producers due to the stroke length) and fit a vtec head to it, increasing the performance of the engine greatly for not alot of investment.

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can you tell me how to find out which gearbox i am using right now because my box says s80 (i bought the car like this) i dont know whether it is B16A2 gearbox or DC2R one .

And suppose if i want to upgrade final drive only as i dont really need LSD FD will be enough for me, do you have any idea how much will it cost including parts and labor? do you know anyone who can do this?

If you have an S80 gearbox, easiest way to find out if you have a LSD box is jack the front of the car up and spin the wheels. If they both spin in the same direction, you have a type R box. If not, you have a VTi-R box.

I would personally do a LSD before a final drive as it will make the car alot easier and safer to drive.

Where are you located so I can refer you to someone that does gearboxes.

If you are in Melbourne, drop by and say hello. Otherwise I will point you in the right direction

It appears OP is in adelaide, try PM'ing chez00 at Neat Gearboxes. His work seems really good and he's local to you.

Eridzone, The Mfactory Close Ratios will enable you to keep the power in the power band. This is crucial especially for low powered, high reving engine. With the right combo, 5th gear can actually becomes usable - and you can grab 5th on the straight at wakefield and go through the kink in 5th - it will lead to better lap times.

However, it may not be suitable to a daily streeter - although it will be helluva fun street car.

As some said earlier, for a streeter, the Mfactory Helical LSD and a shorter final drive 4.9 or 5.2 will increase driving fun

thanks to all you guys

As per your suggestions i have bought Integra DC2R S80 N3E gearbox i hope this weekend i will try to drop in my car lets see how it goes.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Super-DA9

A tune will cost more than $1000 when you factor in the cost of a tunable ECU (generally Hondata S300).

But that's beside the point, if you are positive your engine is underperforming compared to before then something could be wrong. -and tuning doesn't fix problems with a stock car.

If you're 100% sure it's not just that you are getting used to the cars performance and it really is losing power I recommend locating/diagnosing the issue before buying any more performance parts.

Run a compression test, make sure all the cylinders are producing similar pressure. Check for exhaust leaks (this can rob you of power). Have you bottomed out and mashed the underside of your xforce header?

Is your air filter on your CAI located in the bumper/guard? When was the last time it was cleaned/replaced or how long has the CAI been installed?

These are just a few generally easy things to turn your attention to for a start.

Regarding your fuel system, you still have a stock engine so there's really not any point upgrading the fuel system. The stock system will be sufficient. You might see a tiny increase in performance if you run some really good injectors/FPR/pump with a tune but this is way outside your budget.

With your $1000 budget you might consider picking up a second hand DC2R gearbox. Having short ratios and an LSD will give you far better performance than anything you can bolt on to the engine in that price range.

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Thanks Super-DA9

Hi all

As per your advice I recently bought an Integra DC2 Type R gearbox from 2000 model with 4.7FD, LSD and N3E is printed on housing.

currently i am running B16A2 with S4C gearbox(By mistake i quoted s80 in my previous posts).

I am a bit confused whether i should swap the S4C box or keep sticking with it.

I want to know whether it will be worthy to swap the gearbox because i have just checked(I forgot to see before buying) that both boxes have same 1-3 gears and actually S4C has shorter 4th and 5th gear than DC2R box.(may be i may have misunderstood the comparison details). Could someone explain these values?

S4C (JDM Civic SiR/ Type R)
1st gear Ratio 3.23
2nd gear Ratio 2.105
3rd gear Ratio 1.458
4th gear Ratio 1.107
5th gear Ratio 0.848
Final Drive Ratio 4.40


S80 (JDM Integra Type R 1998 2001)
1st gear Ratio 3.23
2nd gear Ratio 2.105
3rd gear Ratio 1.458
4th gear Ratio 1.034
5th gear Ratio 0.787
Final Drive Ratio 4.785

What is the use of dual synchros for every gear in this box? and Is LSD really helpful in real life street daily driving plus some aggressive weekend runs? 4.7FD does it mean that it will give significant gain in acceleration? Which one is shorter in terms of gearing 0.848 or 0.787? I only need better off the line acceleration.

and one last, do i need to change my drive shafts(i have B16A2 in EG 1994) the one which connect to diff not to hub and can i use my existing OEM stock clutch and flywheel or they are not compatible with DC2R gearbox? If i choose an after market Stage 2 or 3 clutch and lightweight flywheel, will that make the car accelerates faster and all of this combination i mean gearbox, clutch and flywheel could transfer more raw power on the ground or this will be just a light difference?

The bigger the number, the shorter the gear.

The ITR box with 4.7fd, lightweight flywheel and new clutch with transform the feel of the car hugely.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vvvtec

The bigger the number, the shorter the gear.

The ITR box with 4.7fd, lightweight flywheel and new clutch with transform the feel of the car hugely.

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so it means that s4c is quicker in terms of acceleration, i havn't swapped it yet as i am collecting opinions on this. if i install after market FD because s4c's 4th and 5th gear ratio is shorter what do you think this will give a better result than DC2R box?

Yes the b16 box with a 4.7/4.9 will pull harder than the itr box in 4th and 5th, but revs at cruising speeds will also be alot higher (4000+ @ 100kph)

just turn your subwoofer up so you cant hear the rev on fwy

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vvvtec

Yes the b16 box with a 4.7/4.9 will pull harder than the itr box in 4th and 5th, but revs at cruising speeds will also be alot higher (4000+ @ 100kph)

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Okay what you recommend s4c with FD upgrade or just bolting and ITR S80 box? for reliability and reasonable cruising experience

Id just bolt the itr box in.

You have a B16A2 from a VTi-R EK or Del Sol right? I don't think that the S4C that comes with that engine is the same as the CTR one w/LSD you listed the ratios for.

Even if the ratios are similar you are still benefiting from a better final drive and an LSD. So either way you're still gaining performance in acceleration and handling. I would bolt up the ITR box.

can someone confirm if its possible to take out the shorter 4th and 5th gears from the b16a2 s4c box and fit it into the b18cr s80 box?