DC2 handling issue - pig tailing - Coilovers

Hey guys,

So I have a DC2, currently I'm not quite satisfied with my handling..

The rears keep on pig tailing and doesn't hold grip, so at some stages, I do spin out (or almost) and keep in mind I'm not taking 45degrees bend at a high speed.. Lol
I'm not too sure if my coilovers are causing the issue or alignment.. Thought I'll ask the forums and hope for some suspension guru to shine me some light!

Current suspension / handling mods

- skunk 2 pro series II coilovers (non damper adjustable)
- F7 rear LCA's
- ASR subframe
- 22mm rear DC2R sway bar
- hardrace RTA bushings
- hardrace toe arms
- hardrace caster bush
- pretty much all the bushes are already changed to hardrace
- hardrace front lower control arm bushings
- 16x8 enkei RPF1
- brand new 205/45 Federal RSR


I also don't have any camber kit.. If that makes a big difference?

So the only issue is how can I improve my handling and what can possibly cause the 'pig tailing'


Thanks in advance and I do apologize if this sort of question has already been asked before

wat is pig tailing?

Rear not holding grip through bends.. Causing the vehicle to spin out

Tyre pressures?

do you have your alignment figures, tyre pressures and spingrates?

your back end is most likely too stiff



and where did you get the term pig tailing from?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curtis265

do you have your alignment figures, tyre pressures and spingrates?

your back end is most likely too stiff



and where did you get the term pig tailing from?

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Them s chassis boys always use it around me haha and I kinda got used to it..

Hmm what can I do to reduce the stiffness? Get a lower spring rate?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdmEG5

Them s chassis boys always use it around me haha and I kinda got used to it..

Hmm what can I do to reduce the stiffness? Get a lower spring rate?

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Well we need to know the current rates, tyre pressures and alignment first as curtis said. Those are usually the things that contribute to oversteer.

I'm trying to get more oversteer so I'm also keen to know what you've got haha.

Do you run any toe out in your alignment? that will do it.

First thing to do is make sure everything is properly installed and aligned. The big rear bar with stock front bar will cause it to be more taily, (lol pigtailing - those dorifto guys make up theyr own shit as they go) but this shouldn't be enough to cause it to spin out in "normal" driving.

If you've replaced all the suspension and bushes, have you had the alignment properly redone? Do this first, and also worth corner weighting it as this can cause big imbalances in handling (if you can get hold of someone with corner scales).

Better to eliminate the basics first, then start looking further.

upgrade front sway bar.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hondarally

First thing to do is make sure everything is properly installed and aligned. The big rear bar with stock front bar will cause it to be more taily, (lol pigtailing - those dorifto guys make up theyr own shit as they go) but this shouldn't be enough to cause it to spin out in "normal" driving.

If you've replaced all the suspension and bushes, have you had the alignment properly redone? Do this first, and also worth corner weighting it as this can cause big imbalances in handling (if you can get hold of someone with corner scales).

Better to eliminate the basics first, then start looking further.

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I have this mate, he's getting corner weights soon.

free sussy setup. gon be nice

maybe cos junk2 coilovers

hehe

The correct terminology is called Oversteer.

To overcome Oversteer/Understeer you have to go through the process of setting up your car right. It's all about balance. Your setup seems OK to me, maybe it's just the driver...

What circuit do you lose control on, what turn?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DC2-PWR

The correct terminology is called Oversteer.

To overcome Oversteer/Understeer you have to go through the process of setting up your car right. It's all about balance. Your setup seems OK to me, maybe it's just the driver...

What circuit do you lose control on, what turn?

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Lol


M8 pls

Correct terminology is called losing it.


What makes you think he is losing it on the track. Not everyone races on circuit like yourself.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cbauto

Lol


M8 pls

Correct terminology is called losing it.


What makes you think he is losing it on the track. Not everyone races on circuit like yourself.

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If you lose control on the streets then there are too many factors on why your car would be behaving as such. You can't give accurate answers from normal roads and Circuit when you're testing the ability of your car.

FYI I use to have an Oversteer issue (pretty sure there is a thread about it). Lost control of my car on a Mountain run a long time ago. Afterwards I asked the same sort of questions too. So from my experience, the best way to know your cars real potential (Cornering) is on the circuits.

The main issue of mine was me (Driver). Issues such as, angle of attack, speed, if tires are warm/cold, road surface wet/dry.. etc etc

Lol Bau... I'm no hero on the track. I'm still learning like everyone else here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DC2-PWR

If you lose control on the streets then there are too many factors on why your car would be behaving as such. You can't give accurate answers from normal roads and Circuit when you're testing the ability of your car.

FYI I use to have an Oversteer issue (pretty sure there is a thread about it). Lost control of my car on a Mountain run a long time ago. Afterwards I asked the same sort of questions too. So from my experience, the best way to know your cars real potential (Cornering) is on the circuits.

The main issue of mine was me (Driver). Issues such as, angle of attack, speed, if tires are warm/cold, road surface wet/dry.. etc etc

Lol Bau... I'm no hero on the track. I'm still learning like everyone else here.

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That's better.

Your 1st post came across as though you're track hero & putting him down as n00b driver.

Cold tyres, haha man has that caught me off guard once or twice :P

fuk off its called 'getting loose'

ur a fgt if you refer to it any other way

its called "wagging your tail"

http://s29.postimg.org/5n7w7mvp3/maxresdefault.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by u mad?

fuk off its called 'getting loose'

ur a fgt if you refer to it any other way

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Fuk off u cheeky abo

It's called "doing a skid"

ur a fgt if you refer to it any other way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Super-DA9

Fuk off u cheeky abo

It's called "doing a skid"

ur a fgt if you refer to it any other way

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fuk off m88

its called dropping a fat skid,

ur a fgt if u refer to it any other way manner or fashion

guise can you pls help op and stop spming

wat has ozhanda become to

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customa...ar24136_24.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mocchi

guise can you pls help op and stop spming

wat has ozhanda become to

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http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/customa...ar11984_27.gif

Some of this has been covered, here it is anyway....

1. Check your wheel alignment. Don't use toe out on rear if you want stability, keep some amount of toe in (~1.5mm). Neg camber will help too but you probably have some increased neg camber from lowering anyway.

2. You have increased your rear anti-roll bar stiffness and kept original front ARB. This will change the balance to more oversteer tendency than stock.

3. Get better tyres, don't push too hard when they are cold.

If you are talking about losing the rear end on the street then you are driving too hard! Bumpy roads/uneven surfaces combined with stiff rear suspension will upset the rear end and can lead to unpredictable results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rc_

Some of this has been covered, here it is anyway....
If you are talking about losing the rear end on the street then you are driving too hard! Bumpy roads/uneven surfaces combined with stiff rear suspension will upset the rear end and can lead to unpredictable results.

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Amen to this brother.

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry I haven't been on in a few days.

Well I'll be doing a wheel alignment this weekend and see how I go with them figures.
For those who've asked about my front sway bar, I'm using ITR front sway bar.. Think it was 26mm and rears are 22mm? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not too sure about the specs my self.

I didn't track it, this was just on the street, ramp from hill road to m4, 35km/h bend I think..

I've asked around and it seems like I was in the wrong for taking the corner a tad faster coz I honestly don't think my tyres were warm enough lol.. In the past days, I've dropped my tyre pressure down. It had 35psi all round (which I wasn't aware of) and I've put it down to 32psi on the front and 28psi on the rear. So far it's okay, but I'm still terrified at losing control of my vehicle lol..

And cheers again for your input!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdmEG5

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry I haven't been on in a few days.

Well I'll be doing a wheel alignment this weekend and see how I go with them figures.
For those who've asked about my front sway bar, I'm using ITR front sway bar.. Think it was 26mm and rears are 22mm? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not too sure about the specs my self.

I didn't track it, this was just on the street, ramp from hill road to m4, 35km/h bend I think..

I've asked around and it seems like I was in the wrong for taking the corner a tad faster coz I honestly don't think my tyres were warm enough lol.. In the past days, I've dropped my tyre pressure down. It had 35psi all round (which I wasn't aware of) and I've put it down to 32psi on the front and 28psi on the rear. So far it's okay, but I'm still terrified at losing control of my vehicle lol..

And cheers again for your input!

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ok, didn't see that you had upgraded the front ARB as well as the rear. Probably not so much an issue, just something to get used to.

I don't know what those federal RSR are like in particular, but with cold semi-slicks it can be slippery at first especially if the track is damp/greasy. Semi slicks need heat to grip well and aren't the best in the wet.

Are you braking hard into corners then turning quickly? Lift off oversteer? Might need to just revise your driving style. Post back when you have your alignment results though, will be able to advise better then.

You lifted off very sharply didn't you?

Would still be good to know the spring rates.. If the rear rates are only a bit softer than the fronts (e.g. 14F 12R) it will usually promote oversteer, especially on lift off or trail braking.

I personally think this is good in FF cars but I can see how it would be scary on the street.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curtis265

You lifted off very sharply didn't you?

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bet this is the case. hehe

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jdmEG5

Thanks for the replies guys. Sorry I haven't been on in a few days.

Well I'll be doing a wheel alignment this weekend and see how I go with them figures.
For those who've asked about my front sway bar, I'm using ITR front sway bar.. Think it was 26mm and rears are 22mm? Correct me if I'm wrong, I'm not too sure about the specs my self.

I didn't track it, this was just on the street, ramp from hill road to m4, 35km/h bend I think..

I've asked around and it seems like I was in the wrong for taking the corner a tad faster coz I honestly don't think my tyres were warm enough lol.. In the past days, I've dropped my tyre pressure down. It had 35psi all round (which I wasn't aware of) and I've put it down to 32psi on the front and 28psi on the rear. So far it's okay, but I'm still terrified at losing control of my vehicle lol..

And cheers again for your input!

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Your tires are definitely OK if they were bought brand new. I think it is also due to the bitumen asphalt too sometimes, such as if they have a high permeable asphalt design (common for mountain roads) you will not have the grip.

Other conditions like road camber, uneven surfaces, and other factors as such effecting your suspension wheel travel.

This is why testing your car on the road is silly, due to the inconsistent road conditions from a circuit/track road ... if that makes any sense.

From what it seems I believe your setup is great. Just take it to the tracks and have a go. If it makes you any happier my car is setup for track (3-4 years) and I still lose control on bends sometimes, mainly due to the suspension travel and the shitty road compounds that do not suit my cars tracking conditions ...also, if that makes any sense.

Did you install all the parts?

If you did, chances are the coilover lengths probably aren't ideal and the swaybar tension may be scewing the load unevenly.
The easiest way to get everything very close; is jack up the car in the middle at each end, in turn. Disconnect the swaybars.

eg. jack the rear of the car off the middle of the chassis between the sway bar and the fuel tank. Slowly raise the car. Set the coilover lengths so both left and right wheels come off the ground at the same time. Check the spring preloads and damping rates are also even left to right.

Then when the coilover lengths are correct and if you have adjustable sway bar end links. Loosen the height adjusters on the swaybar end links. Sit the car on level ground with the tyre pressures even. Evenly tighten the height adjusters on the swaybar end links to sandwich the swaybar at the height where the car sits normally. This is to prevent the swaybar from scewing the swaybar unevenly to one side.

Then do the front.
Check the rear again.

Then get a wheel alignment.

Test on track, then adjust to presonal preferences. Remember one change at a time.

hope this helps.