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Hi All,
Was just wondering if anyone has rolled their guards on their Euros? Just wondering what you guys think. If you have large rims 8" wide and have lowered the car, rolling the guards or using a cambur kit may be the only solutions. Thanks guys. :confused:
Please don't do it - poor Euro. :(
On a positive note - people have fit 8" wide rims on the Euro without rolling the guards. Just make sure the offset is right - ie don't put a +42 on it!
Get a +48 or something like that and it will fit fine. The other thing do your homework to make sure it is legal.
Eg in Victoria your rims cannot be more than 25mm wider than that specified by the manufacturer. That would make 7.5" the limit for a Euro in Vic *** oops correction - for those with the 16" rims. I am not sure what size the new lux has - 17 x 7?
Thanks yfin,
I will reconsider it. However every bump i go over the tyres rub onto the guards. I'm afraid its going to wear the tyres down. Theres not much damage in rolling the guards is there?
Vteo - I don't think I have seen your rim specs before. Can you post them up including tyre size?Quote:
Originally Posted by vteo
It sounds like you are running a low offset to get rubbing. I have read plenty of posts with people running 19" and 20" rims on the Euro with no rubbing - you just need to choose rims wisely.
I'm not sure the details, guy at the shop said they were alright. Its probably because its lower than usual, but will look into it. Where are you situated?
mate i have 18x8s and they don't rub with +48 offset
Post up some pics of the rims with a close up of the tyres. Take one rim off and look on the inside for some numbering - eg 19 x 8, ET42 or something like that. We need to know those numbers to tell you whether the "guy at the shop" knows what he is doing.Quote:
Originally Posted by vteo
[QUOTE=vteo]I'm not sure the details, guy at the shop said they were alright. QUOTE]
Of course the shop dude will said it's alright, becasue he wanted to sell you the rims. Unless the shop has fit the exactly the rims on Euro before, otherwise you probably have more knowledge about the euro rims size than the shop dude do.
as yfin said, do a bit of research about rim's "off-set" before you buy it.
Vincent... looking at those pics you sent me I think those deep dish rims don't have enough offset but... since you already bought the rims not much else that you can do.
Just raise the car up a few fingers... you'll still be pimpin and you'll avoid damaging your new car and tyres. Also a camber kit is a good investment.
guard rollin is fine man. i done it on all my cars. u want that tight fit look. If rubbing just take it to a panel beater to get the guard rolled. If not their ar people who specialise in guard rolling and dent removal they can do it also. Should be able to get guards rolled for 50 dollars each. Just make sure when he does it does not crak the paint. Yellow sticker for to wide rims hahahahaha, odd of getting yellowed for that are slim even if u do just put stock rims on an over the pits.
I don't know what state you are in - but in Victoria and NSW it happens. You can get defected for wrong size rims. EGg:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtec_inside
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...light=defected
I'll see what I can do. I don't think the rims are TOO wide, still under the guard (just). Been past a few cops but no pull overs.
Yeah ur offset on ur wheels are too low if it is scrappn on 8 inch wide rims...
I'm using 19x9 rims and i have no scrappn at a all... My front is real low but my back needs the guards rolled as well if i want it to go any lower...
Pricing is around $80-$90 for both back ones...
when I had the rear guards rolled on my previous car (Camry). the penal shop boss did it himself for me. he also used heat gum to soften the paint around the guard a bit before he start rolling the guard, he did a little bit at the time, reapply heat between rollings.. didnt have any issue with paint cracking with mine.
I use 19x8.5 (front) and 19x9.5 (rear). I need to roll the guard for both front & rear. When i first rolled the guard i used 235 for my rear tyre and when i change to 245 it begin to scrap the guard badly cause my rear suspension is too low. Then the person who rolled the guard decided to move my rear wheel few cm to the front and now the rear wheel never scrap the guard eventhough my suspension still to low. When i did the wheel alignment the person told me that it's too low and already full negative chamber.
http://www.atjo.org/permaisuri/endut05.jpg
http://www.atjo.org/permaisuri/endut04.jpg
Atjo:
The inside edge of your rear tyres must wear like mad!..
what do you mean by "moving the rear wheel few cm to the front"? Do you mean they make your rear wheels toe-in??
They moved the center of the wheel few cm to the front so the rear section of the guard doesn't scrub the tyre.Quote:
Originally Posted by PNR888
Do you mean the offset of the wheel on the rear is more than the front thus enabling the wheel to sit behind the guard?
Fark the tyres man - what about the car! That set up is just asking for trouble IMO. Wrong offset, wrong size width, etc, etc. Lets see how the bearings and suspension linkages look down the track. And that is before you even ask the question - is it legal?Quote:
Originally Posted by PNR888
As long as people know what they are getting into that is cool with me. I just worry about some noob reading this forum and thinking - cool 9.5" rims are fine on the Euro as long as I roll the guards. There are more important questions to think about (and the most important should always be - is this going to be legal in my state) :rolleyes: I can only shake my head in disbelief sometimes - what happens if you crash the car and insurance doesn't pay out? (you don't need to answer the question BTW)
When i first seen pictures of his car, i also raised this 'legal' issue. I, too, feel very strongly about this. He didnt seem to care because apparently 'cops dont check' then i reminded him it was the insurance company you should be more worried about.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Each to their own i guess, you wouldnt do what i did, i wouldnt do what you did, but atleast we both wouldnt do what he did :D :D
I don't want to be hard on the guy - it is his car not mine. I just want to warn noobies out there to think about all the issues before committing to mods that may piss $35k+ down the drain if they write off the car. Make sure you tell your insurance company everything and do your best to make sure everything is kept kosher. That is all you can do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrarista
Totally agree, the cops are the last of your problems. :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
I've got an euro and i must admit i'm still young and stupid and i've dropped my euro a fair bit & the negative camber you will recieve you wont rub at the rear at all. I'd be more worried about the front from what i've read.
Once i put the fulcrum camber kit in it went from stock -4.5 too -2.5 so i wouldn't chew the tires & kill the bearings/linkages & bushes. And i'm running 0 toe with the kit which makes rear tire wear alot eaiser to control.
And i actually work for an insurance company. And prety much you can do get away with lowering your car & smashing it (touch wood) & you will still recieve a payout.. But they may ask for an increased exces.
(I wouldn't recommend it though)
Tell your insurance company everything and if you can't afford the high prices of insurance, you can't afford the car or the extra mods. Here's a pic os my rear wheel running -2.5 camber (didn't take one with the -4.5 :( )
http://onfinite.com/libraries/638090/68a.jpg
You can see the part of the tire shine showing the part of the tire that didn't touch the ground! That's from 5,000km's without a camber kit until i put the camber kit on and swapped rear tires around. (got lost in the mail)
I'm running a 235/35/19 on a 8.0x wide rim that has been machined to a +43 or a +45 (can't remember) offset & never had to roll the guards and never scrapes. The front sits right on top of the tire aswell.
Have a look at some more pics & see how low the front is and i'm only running a stock -0.5 camber with 0 toe http://tknova.onfinite.com/album/482045/ & she's pretty low too :D
Remember, tell your insurance company everything about yourself & your car. But about the legal side, Well. I just can't help it & will have to deal with the fines if i ever get one (been pulled over & had no issue yet) but you can't put old heads on young shoulders can you.. :) I'll learn one day.
Tknova - how are things looking with the -2.5 camber in terms of tyre wear? That is about what mine is running now. A Honda mechanic at Honda north in Perth told me to wait on a camber kit (but to double check the toe is right).
Well, running on 19 inch tires doesn't help tire wear compared to running on stock 16 inch tires. Bigger/low profile tires will always wear alot faster.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
But, i've done 8,000 km's on the rear tires since the kit was installed & the wear is very minimal! I am very suppriesed on how well that the tires are wearing!
The biggest improvement is the toe. Was running +2.7 in toe ar the rear.
But the fulcrum camber kit correct toe & camber. Now i'm running 0 toe
Front suspension doesn't need a camber/toe kit at all. Can ajust everything through factory settings.
That's correct, you don't need to change anything for the front when lowering. Only the back you'll have problems with camber & toe.
Why don't you go 0 camber, or -0.5 to -1.0 camber, so that your tyre wear can be more even? Will it scrub the guard if going lower than -2.5 camber?
I'd love to run -1 at the rear but i can't.Quote:
Originally Posted by euro77
The fulcrum kit only allows -2 or +2 camber ajustment.
So at a stock -4.5 camber i can only get a maxium ajustment of -2 so i get a camber reading now of -2.5
And if the camber was running any more positive at the rear i think i would probaly get some guard scrapping issues.
Because it is wishbone at the front the camber doesn't change when lowering. The toe is adjustable at the rear too - how much I don't know - mine was in spec with the 30mm drop or so. I can't see any rear wear on my tyres either - done about 1500kms since lowering. Fingers crossed I can save myself a camber kit. Maybe it is because I hardly ever carry rear seat passengers - if I carried a heavy load at the rear I am sure the rear tyres would wear much more due to the increased camber (prob over -3 with heavy load).
Your toe is probaly in spec by a computer satisfaction, but i doubt by yours. I bet if you goto the rear of your car & look down at the wheel standing up you will see alot of positve toe which also means excess drag, excess fuel consumption snd ofcource increased tire wear :( and with positive tow, it also can induce roll off oversteer.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
A camber kit is pretty cheaps for what it does, in your case correct toe & camber and save your bushes, linkages & ect. And your rear wheel will track straight.
Tknova -235/35/19 for front and back?
or you put less wide tyre on the front?
235/35/19 all round :) don't see why i need to run two different sizes?Quote:
Originally Posted by TwEigh
Typo in my previous post - I am running -2.1 and -2.2. Not sure what you mean by toe problem - the car is within the Honda specs so what do you want them to adjust?Quote:
Originally Posted by tknova
Ive droped my car 2' at the back and running on 8' wide tyres, do i need a camber kit? I wouldnt have a clue on these things
Your probaly right now that i think about it... But, a camber kit will get you perfect toe & camber. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by yfin
If you have noticable wear on the inside of your tires it would be a good idea so you don't chew through em.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrarista
How much did it set u back? And where would you get it done?Quote:
Originally Posted by tknova
Thanks
lol - we need to get this thread back on track - moving off topic (my fault too!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrarista
I'm pretty sure the fulcrum kit is around $300 odd. Direct from fulcrum. Too get it installed should be around the $200 mark (Pedders, ect. Or you can do it yourself) & a good wheel alignment from $70 - $130 (True Track)
btw tknova- how do u lower your car?
custom spring? change shock?
and how much do u drop ur car?
Well, i'm running origanil struts but different & softer bump stops & custom springs. And i think i dropped it 3 & 1/2 inches. Maybe more?
And it's still a very nice ride! Car never bottoms out. Senpsion centre who lowerded it said "Honda make one of the best suspension setups"
But, My Honda dealership said to me "Honda spend millions of dollars in designing this suspenion setup & you go and slam it" But, nother the less they still loved it :)
woah tknova... i dont think those stock shocks are gona last too long with such an agressive drop.
i think at the end of the day coilovers are always the way to go for the perfect drop.
a friend of mine fitted 19x8.5 front and 19x9 rear without rolling (just chamber a little)
I know that some of don't agree with i did. Previously, the springs & wheels was used on my friend's euro and when the springs & wheels fitted at my car i don't know why it's much lower than my friend's car. You can see from the picture. That's why i need to roll the guard (It's not fully rolled, only a little bit) even the front guard cause it's 19x8.5. I don't have to roll the guard if 7.5 or 8. The camber is temporary only cause i'm planning to put bodykit and make it widebody so i don't need to camber anymore.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ferrarista
I know it's not legal and most of my friends who modify their euro are not legal as well. For the insurance point of view, it will not become a problem if someone crash into my car, am i right? Because before the wheels fitted at my car, my friend had an accident and he didn't have any problem with the insurance. The only thing he did just change the wheels into stock wheels. I know what i'm doing and the place where i did the fitting has been involved in modification for autosalon.
Get the ingal camber kit. I've got them installed and I can set the camber to 0 degree easily :DQuote:
Originally Posted by tknova
But then again, in your case it would scrape the guard, besides, you were saying the wear was pretty even, so I guess it'll be alright.
would running 245/40/18 on 18x8 +49 rims on stock suspension pose a problem?
im planning to get it lowered on coilovers next year...not sure how low yet.
but i'll get the rims and tyres on first..
so its 245/40/18 on stock suspension alright?
shouldn't be a problem. As far as I can remember, anything over +43 is fine.
By comparison I have 235/45 on 17x7.5 +48. With that set up I am flush with the front guard. My car would be illegal if I went any wider as the shoulder of the tyres would protrude past the body (not by much - maybe 1cm) when the wheel is pointing straight ahead. So if you are pulled over by the cops they can defect you for this - not worth the trouble IMO. Even at some angles the 235 tyres look like they protrude (depends on tyre pressure how much they balloon).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sulley
Anyway, your setup would protrude 1.5cm further than mine as offset is almost exactly the same. I think that is too wide - especially if you plan to lower the car.
235 tyres are also plenty wide enough for a car the size, weight and power of the Euro. Traction is just not an issue if you get decent enough tyres.
Also remember that wider wheels etc can be inspected by an engineer who can issue an engineering certificate for them. The only thing is that they cannot engineer offset changes more than 12mm.
I ran 3.5 degrees neg camber on my 5th gen for 12,000kms with [no visible tyre wear; but i didnt treat it like a race car. I tend to baby my car around corners cos passengers dont like wacking their heads against the side window
But how can you engineer a wheel that sticks out past the wheel arch - that is a safety issue.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dominik
Not just from a safety issue .. but it will look damn ugly!Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
by the way, noob question .. what is a negative chamber? or anyone can direct me to another thread?
No, you cant engineer anything that sticks outside the guard, but if its just wider wheels you are after (with correct offsets i guess) then you can do it.
And as for looking ugly, well that is entirely subjective, but having your wheels 'poke' outside the guards is a very popular look with the European tuning crowd (VWs, Audis, Mercs etc), not to mention VIP cars. It gives the car a tough stance that looks 'phat'
And i am still trying to figure out the safety issues with having wheels stick 1-2cm outside the guards. Sure if they are 15cm out then it might be, but if people are that close to the car their toes will probably already get squished even if the wheels are inside the guards!
Engineering in that sense is more if you're rebuilding a car from scratch -- say, doing up an old model for legal street use and putting much bigger wheels on that it originally had.
The safety issue isn't so much other people's fingers and toes, it's the fact that the guard won't allow the suspension to bring the wheel right up: that's going to affect the handling of the whole car and possibly peel the tyre in an extreme case.
Since its illegal throughout all of Australia, you're just asking for trouble if you do so and there's no good reason for having your tyres stick out past your guards in my opinion...
I'm pretty sure that getting your wheels engineered isnt just for custom built cars...
As for wheels 'poking', i have heard of people whose wheel is outside the guards slightly, but suspension travel doesnt allow it to touch the guard; I mean i understand that it should be illegal because if you allow wheels that are 2cm out, then there would be nothing stopping people with open wheeler race cars riding around on the roads... but i hardly think 2cm is a threat to society!
sorry to bring this back but i couldnt really find wat i was looking for....
Do i need to roll my guards if im droping the car abt 3" maybe a little more? mind you im running the stock 16" wheels atm... like i know if i get bigger and wider wheels i would have too, but for now 16s...
Are you planning to keep the same rolling diameter as the stock 205/55 R16?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru42
does anyone have the ph numbers of the guys that do the rolling???
I guess it is all depending on the offset and the width of the wheels as well as the tyre size, get the wheels with correct offset ,width and tyre size and you will be fineQuote:
Originally Posted by Dru42
Haha,mr747 you'll need guard rolling for those big ass 20s you're fitting.:cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by mr747
hahhahahaha true that i just wana do it properly
aaronng - yeah Prob for now, maybe getting 18s but not anytime soon,
Raz05 - yeah ill make sure of that once the time comes...
were you at matchroom snooker (next to dna) the other nite? i cant remember which day it was, saw your car parked outside
yep that's me, wat size of wheels are u gonna get?
keeping the stock for now, but looking at 17s or 18s, but most likely 18s
true, gotta say hi to u next time, if i know who u are, hard to know when everyone in that joint is asian lol
that's cool man, will see how u go with ur car
how long did you go with ur car and what on?
wat u mean by how long, or do u mean how low is my car?
yeah low, Sorry typeo
im on tien ss.
wheel and guard are level.
on 18's +45 ithink.. 8.5" wide
its all good.
I currently running Tein SS with vision rear camber and SPC front camber, wheels size is 17*7.5 offset 40 with 225/45/17. I raise the car up a bit to 2.5 finger gap to avoid the rubbing of the front tyres.
When you get 18s, what tyres size are you going to use? Are you going to keep the same rolling diameter as the stock 16"?Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru42
will the (f) 18 x 8 +37 (r) 18 x 9 +37 fit properly? without any hassle?
Dun think u can fit it without rubbing
that's pretty aggressive offset u have there
Doubt it with that offset.
at this stage its unsure, but wouldnt it be best to have the same rolling diameter?Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Yes, keep it the same would be the best idea. What about the width? If you are keeping the width pretty similar to what you have now, then you shouldn't have rubbing when you switch from 16" to 18" rims as long as the offset is correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dru42
Either 215/40R18 or 225/40R18. The first size is slightly under original diameter and the second size is slightly over original diameter.Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
205/55R16 (Stock on Euro Standard)
Rim width range: 5.5"-7.5"
Overall diameter: 631 mm
Diameter difference: Nil
Revolutions per km: 519.6
Indicated Speed: 100 km/h
215/40R18
Rim width range: 7.0"-8.5"
Overall diameter: 629 mm
Diameter difference: -0.41%
Revolutions per km: 521.7
Relative indicated Speed: 100.4 km/h
225/40R18
Rim width range: 7.5"-9.0"
Overall diameter: 637 mm
Diameter difference: +0.84%
Revolutions per km: 515.3
Relative indicated Speed: 99.1km/h
And just to compare, the stock Euro Luxury 17" size tyre:
225/45R17
Rim width range: 7.0"-8.5"
Overall diameter: 634 mm
Diameter difference: +0.41%
Revolutions per km: 517.5
Relative indicated Speed: 99.6km/h
SPQR - Intersting... thanks
Dru...235/40/18 is the go.And by the way saw your car parked in west end.
i was there last friday nite, parked behind the audi R8
235/40R18Quote:
Originally Posted by albii
Rim width range: 8.0"-9.5"
Overall diameter: 645 mm
Diameter difference: +2.137%
Revolutions per km: 508.8
Relative indicated Speed: 102.1km/h
205/55R16 (Stock on Euro Standard)
Rim width range: 5.5"-7.5"
Overall diameter: 631 mm
Diameter difference: Nil
Revolutions per km: 519.6
Indicated Speed: 100 km/h
225/45R17 (Stock Euro Luxury 17" size tyre)
Rim width range: 7.0"-8.5"
Overall diameter: 634 mm
Diameter difference: +0.41%
Revolutions per km: 517.5
Relative indicated Speed: 99.6km/h