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hey guys,
just wondering..
in an EG sedan.. what would be the best engine to turbocharge (i mean of all available options, eg. d16y, b16a, b18c etc etc)????
ive read that the b18c is no good due to the compression of it already or something?? not too sure... so i was wondering what would be the best just out of curiosity, i was thinking b16a.
maybe someone could mention the pros and cons of turbocharging each engine type.
thanks
i read that the b18b is the best to turbo because of it's compression..
plus no vtec..
it seems as if more d series engines are turbocharged than b series..
i might be wrong but thats the impression i get.
dont know whether its coz people decide to turbo there d engines rather than do a na b series swap, because they like boost..
tru dat :D b18b yoQuote:
Originally Posted by tripitaka
I agree the b18a or b18b are supposed to be the safest and best to turbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by tripitaka
hmmm might have to do some searching on these 2, only ever really wondered about the b18c no the a or b, thanks guys...
any idea on the costs/availabilities of these if wanting a 1/2 cut ?
are they rare or quit simple to stumble across
what one are you talking about ?
the b18b ? or the b18c ?
b18a = LS tegs ? i'm guessing ?
b18b = GSI tegs
b18c = VTIR/Type R tegs
and you would find that most people boost their dseries because they start off with the dseries, and would rather get the best "bang for you buck" mods.. i.e boost
the best engine to turbo is the one with the best fuel management/tuning
any of those engines can be safely turboed and make plenty of power.
I personally would spend the money an engine swap would cost to build the internals of the engine that's already there. You'll make more power for the money that way.
b16 450kw @11,500rpm at the wheels ! and power is still increasing... just wait till i add more boost.. ;-)
b16 the whole way ;) perfect rod/stroke ratio.
Regards James
i wouldve thought the b18c cuz it has the VTEC..but why are people sayin its bad to have turbo with a VTEC engine? wouldnt that make the car even faster? u get the turbo kickin in then the vtec? how is that bad?
im not too sure but i think its got something to do with the compression of the b18c... i think turbocharging it adds too much or something...
im not really sure myself
uhhh lower compression?
but it's not a problem anyway!
Does anyone postuing here actually know what they are talking about? blkcrx seems to be the only one with experience...
Compression? No VTEC better?
I am sorry but what are you guys talking about?
b18c have high compression.Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1985
turbo's or any other form of forced induction work better with lower compression since it increases the capability of induction.
so the reason some nobbs think b18a/b is better to turbo is since the compression ratio is lower from the factory......i think thats all jus bullshit!!
so go the b16a!!
b18c have high compression.
turbo's or any other form of forced induction work better with lower compression since it increases the capability of induction
Meh Turbo's work BETTER with hi compressioN !!! why go low ?
More videos please! :pQuote:
Originally Posted by BLKCRX
was under the impression that lower compression enables more air to be forced into and compressed for a turbo!!
i had my b18b turbocharged and it had no problems with its stock internal components. BLKCRX obviously knows about turbocharged hondas because he owns 1 as i do. Not sure if u read my thread on my conversion?
by the way, a
b18b has 9-1 comp
b18c has 10-1 comp
b18c type r has 11-1 comp
Any of these can be turbocharged with outstanding results on stock internals and no de comp plates.
lower compression means the engine has a lower detonation pressure, and is less likely to do damage in the event that it detonates. You also have to run a lot more timing to get the power out. Higher compression means you're more liekly to detonate, have a higher detonation pressure, but will make more power per psi, and have a faster spool time most likely.
The reason that VTEC is said to not be good on turbo engines is that on the DOHC vtec engines, there is more overlap on the exhaust cam. Exhaust overlap on a turbo means you're blowing some compressed air straight out the other side of the engine.
Unless you use cam gear's to change the overlap ;) n then make even more power !!!
Regards James
Well this is a really broad question. As an Engineer i can briefly outline a few things for you with turbo charging and choosing a motor.
First off you should know that you can turbo charge any of the above engines safely with the right fuel management. Its highly recommended To run a turbocharged engine at a compression ratio between 8 and 9:1 The idea is that with higher compression, in thermodynamics the otto cycle of a gasoline engine has increased efficiency with higher compression. however the downfall is you have much great chance of preignition of fuel and detonation, two very harmful things for a motor. Mechanical Engineers have a few ways of counteracting these things. 1) Combustion chamber design 2) numerous spark plugs 3) higher octane gas which gives an infinitesimal time delay before the fuel ignites at its normal igniton temperature.
So in conclusion if you can run high octane gas and tune the motor well, any Honda engine is suitable for boost. Ideally you would want something with lower compression or to get in the range stated above. so you can purchase a thicker layered headgasket and this will lower compression. The b18a/b are strong Engines with good compression for boost. They arent made to Rev high. So choose whichever engine is economical for you. Lastly, you might want to consider turbo charging your engine now, message me if you have questions or need help getting started
Cheers
I'd advise against goign with the whole thicker headgasket to lower compression idea... yes, it works, and yes, lots of people do it and have success doing it, but a thicker headgasket is going to blow out easier than a thin one. If you're THAT worried about lowering your compression ratio, do it right. at least imo
I wouldnt touch a decompression plate (thicker gasket) for this very reason alone.
the "Mechanical Octane" obtained as a result of the quench design of 4valve honda head will be lost. This design property along with the exhaust volume bias are what make honda combustion chambers so efficient.
Doing the reverse is not only effectively insulting Honda engineers but decreasing combustion efficiency.
Ive seen a B16 boosting 16psi WITH decompression plate making less power than I am at 4.5psi. If you dont believe me, I'll ask for the graph overlay to prove it.
This statement is exactly on the mark. The same thing was tested at AVO with the same results of the spaced engine losing power.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
Thank-you!
There is a common misconception that more boost = more power, or is it just bragging rights?
so im guessing u could turbocharge any honda engine at a low psi without doing any damage..
am i right?
that's a HUGE blanket statement...Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1985
I would say that yes, most honda engines could be turboed at low psi, given PROPER TUNING...
that's the key... use the wrong tuning and you can make an engine pop at 1 psi... really depends a lot
turbo the D series motor, say d16y4/5
its safe cause there is no vtec, so drop the compression ratio. run above standard boost, external wastegate. and think about getting your internals done for peace of mind
what do u guys think
why drop the compression ratio? it's already plenty low... having no vtec means the head doesn't flow as well, you'd make more power on a vtec head. internals are really dependent on how much power one wants, by no means necessary at lower boost levels(<10 depending on turbo size, obviously 10 psi on a t25 is goign to act a lot different than 10 psi on a t67).
what sort of psi would i be able to run off a b16a if tuned properly??
I have had guys drive out of my shop on stock internals running 12 psi. I did not recommend this to them, however they asked for an adjustable boost controller and i granted their wish. They cranked it to 12 and 2 out of the 3 have been running fine for over a year. All cars were finely tuned using uberdata stand alone fuel management. My suggestion would be 7 psi. You can make plenty of power at that level with a nice A/F tune
8 or 9psi will be fine but 7 is very safe. Those engines stock will handle 12psi but thats borderline. Make sure its dyno tuned properly tho
nice, i think id be happy with 8/9.. might have to look into this for a future mod (new engine 1st)...
also.. what are the most common kits used on these sort of engines??
garrett, greddy ???
any other popular kits used by honda enthusiasts???
the reason that most d series are turbo'd is because most people can only afford one or the other turbo/engine conversion. B18c in my opinion would be the best to turbo, high compression yes... but that only means it cannot handell much boost on the internals as is. you can alwayes get a decompressed head gasket and lower the compression and still have your VTec and the abillity to rev out to 8.5grand.
Or get forged internals (low compression or normal compression) and still run boost.
many combos available, but dont let dickhead tell you the a non vtec turbo is better then a vtec turbo...
decompression plate was tested by avo and didnt work. the engines performance went backwards so best not 2 crack the engine open.
thanks everyone for your help.. im doing either a b16a/b18c conversion in a EG Sedan (not sure which, depends on how much i sell my car for) then maybe down the track add a turbocharger... EG b18c turbo would be very very nice hmmmmmm thats the path i wanna take... hopefully i can afford it.. wish me luck :honda:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BLKCRX
Has this car run the 1/4 mile ?
If you got the money, Get cosworth to engineer for u...haha...but a B16's would suit a turbo more...
and also...i wonder BLKCRX 1/4 mile time...hmm..450kw atw...hmm...over 800hp at the engine...hmm...i did see a 290hp+ (at the engine) B20 run a 11.2sec 1/4mile...guess your's would be running at least a high 9 sec's...hmmmmm......pretty amazing...
on a video he made, it said it was an 11 second car when it was 314kw atw..
hey, what's wrong with the F20C?
the price is whats wrong with it, lol
would definately put that in if it was within my price range!!
all hondas have a higher compression so ur best bet is to stick with the b18c and turbocharged that runnin on low boost approx 6-8psi and get a thick head gasket so that will drop the compression down a bit..
You obviously did not read the rest of the thread???Quote:
Originally Posted by anna1984
ooops sorry dont mind me
what about a LS/VTEC conversion? I'd go down that path. B18B block and B16a head.
best of both worlds!!
just do the stock b18b. Save cash