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trying to sell a luxury sport mazda 6 for a friend and it has really made me realise just how good the euro is......my euro rides much better,feels more upmarket,has more power,the doors are heavier and close with a thud,even the windows winding down feel more refined in the honda and the interior just doesnt compare.......what do you guys reckon?
I drove the Six and the Euro before I decided. The Euro won hands down the finish is so much better and is way more refined. The six has an under powered engine. And value for money give me the Euro any day by comparison. My thoughts anyway....
Yep I agree totally. The whole time I was driving the six u kept throwing back to the Euro going, bah. Why am I driving this? I want to get out and go back to honda and drive the Euro :). Its not a bad car by any means. I didnt mind the handling, but it wasnt as powerful, or anywhere near as refined as the euro. Only women and men with three children are going to defend their decision to go for the mazda six.
Speaking of Mazda 6s - I was looking at the Mazda site in relation to the new MPS - 190kw, 380NM yada yada yada:
http://www.mazda6mps.com.au/articleZ...cleZoneID=3426
Now - ponder this quote - Acceleration from 80-120 km/h: 5.3 seconds (Under Mazda test conditions)
Now - look at this:
http://motoring.nzoom.com/cda/printa...211355,00.html
Look at the time they get for the Euro 80-120kph - 5.04.
Very, very interesting. I have definately noticed that in gear above 60kph - the Euro performs quite nicely compared to many other cars you would expect to be much faster.
I know most of you have compare the Mazda 6 to the Euro, but has anyone drove the Subaru Liberty 2.5? I had a drive of the Liberty, in terms of driving, handleing, quietness. I reckon it drives a little be better than the Euro. The Liberty only has 120kw or something, but it feels a quicker car.
I was actually quite suprise how well they were built.
The reason why I bought the Euro was because I always wanted one. It has HID headlights, audio control and most importantly the rear legroom and bootspace. Prices is about the same.
I drove that model - it did not feel powerful to me. The manual liberty is a 9.5 second car and I definately felt the power drop coming from a test drive in the Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by EURO R CL9
Mazda test condition must have not been anywhere close the redline when shifting LOLQuote:
Originally Posted by yfin
The test must be very different between the two. need to have an independent test on the Mazda MPS.
How can you make the test "very different"? It is not a test that requires a launch from standstill and impacted by different clutch techniques. It is in gear acceleration. Very easy to replicate. The only variable is the gear each car is in.Quote:
Originally Posted by euro77
This doesn't really surprise me. There is a front wheel drive Saab Turbo (current model - Viggen?) that accelerates between 80-120 faster than a Porsche 911 Turbo. I kid you not - it was on Top Gear recently. But the same Saab would be convincingly killed in a 0-100 run with the Porsche (by a long way).
The flexibility of an engine depends on lots of things and peak kw and torque don't always tell the whole story when looking at in gear acceleration. The shape of the curve is important too - as well as how much power there is down low in rev range, etc.
I personally think the Mazda 6 is quite good, considering the price. You can get the luxury sports hatch, which has the works, for $38K drive away. Leather, Boss sound system (which is way better than the Euro system), body kit, foggies, sunroof. Just doesn't have the HID's, heated seats and rain sensing wipers that the Euro Lux have :p
To the bad points. Lack of feedback from steering, engine sounds a bit wheezy, like an electric motor, not quite as powerful (my auto Euro can keep up with a manual 6), and overall not as refined as the Euro. Also, Nighthawk Black Pearl is wayy better than the black the Mazda 6 has, haha, but they have the Snowflake White Pearl on their 6 now (was a JDM only colour, and the Jap RX8 has this colour too).
drove the 2.5i and yes it is ver refined and well built but it is a slow ass car compred with the euro..btw the 6 luxury sport i have here is a very harsh sounding car....not very quite....or refined at all...quite bad actually after jumping out of my euro..Quote:
Originally Posted by EURO R CL9
pah no way....my wife didnt want the 6 at all.. hated them........but she wanted the euro straight away without even a test drive.......and we have 2 children...Quote:
Originally Posted by nEUROtic
I definitely felt that too. Even my friend with XR8 commented that Euro pulls really hard in 2nd or 3rd gear while doing around 70-80kph.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
Well, it's a pretty much agreed point where ever you see that refinement isn't one of Mazda 6's strong point. Admittedly, I didn't even bother going to Mazda to try out Mazda 6 when I was in market to buy a car. I pretty much wanted to get the Euro and nothing else seemed anywhere near the quality or the value of Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by albii
Having said that, I don't mind the look of red Mazda 6 Luxury Hatch, but I still wouldn't trade my Euro for it. 120-odd KW just isn't good enough and 5 speed manual in this day and age is sub-standard too.
When my friend went for a test drive of the Mazda6 (she bought it eventually), I tagged along for the ride. We got to test drive it without the salesperson!!! We tried low speed, hard acceleration to red line, bouncing off the limiter, and fast corners. The suspension was good, but the engine was empty. All I heard was the music of the engine, but without the acceleration that you come to expect of it. Oh well.... The interior looked nice but the cutting point was the dash and audio console. It was silver in colour..... I like dark coloured interiors, so that sealed it for me. Mazda6 out. Test driving the Euro, I was in a 60 zone. The salesperson told me one guy lost his license around while testdriving the S2000. Hehe. Anyway, I tried a few short squirts in 2nd gear up to 60, and it was not bad. What really impressed me was when I shifted to 5th at around 40-50km/h. The revs was at 1000-something and when I applied a bit of throttle, the car accelerated! I was like WTF! What non-turbo car can accelerate at such low revs!? Bought it and now when I drive normally, I don't need to exceed 2000rpm for driving around here. And I get 9-ish L/100km mileage (with about 10 redlines per refuel).
9L/100km.....that's like 600km for a full tank. I can't even get close to 500km on in my Euro, but that's probably because for each trip, I travel less than 5km's :p
drove a 6 auto at the same time i had the standard 107kw manual engine in my 94 accord. My accord felt more powerful.
Yeah, that's mixed city and highway. Pure city driving I get about 9.8L/100km. I did a sydney to canberra and back without refueling once. HeheQuote:
Originally Posted by Slugoid
Just a q'n with the 2.5i Did you drive the manual of the Auto.. With the Subaru there is a huge difference in which tranny u drive. The Auto is always HUGELY slower than the Manual - you have to give a lot more throttle - must be the way the electronics are designed.
I think the liberty handles better - but would not buy it unless it was the 3.0l version... hehehe - Wheels mag did a comp with the BMW 330i.
I agree. I drive my gf's Outback 3.0 litre auto once in a while. It's set so that you get smooth acceleration and the tranny's torque convertor really limits the torque in the 1st and 2nd gears. I feel less acceleration in those gears that in the next gear (2nd and 3rd) in my manual Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
def the manual.....and was not impressed by the acceleration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
I bought a Euro 6sp standard milano red yesterday. I get the car soon. I test drove liberty 2.5i 5sp man extensively also on the same day.
I can tell you this. The liberty is more flexible off the mark, max torque is lower in the rpm range, but the euro Kills it once you get to 50% of the rev range. The manual trans of the euro is much slicker also and the ratios on the honda are more suited getting the power down. The honda felt about 20% quicker in normal driving to me.
i got the honda in the end as i couldnt have got the liberty anyway as I had to wait 8 weeks for it . Im happy with the euro.
yea i also looked at the liberty, but didnt get round to test driving it after i drove the euro - fell in love straight away. Also looked at the Mazda 6 but didn't get around to test driving that either :p
interesting that you noticed a 20% difference thats pretty spot on i think.. 121kw vs. approx 140kw.
The euro always seems to ahve one up on the competition- great stuf
Yfin, funny you mentioned the Saab Viggen turbo. I had a run with one 2 weeks ago on the track, from 80~170 it wasnt getting away from the euro at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by yfin
The in gear acceleration is very strong in the Euro especially 2nd, 3rd and 4th gear.
I sat in the Mazda 6, the interior looks and feels so cheap I didn't bother test drive it
I understand completely, our second hand yard at work has 2 mazda 6 luxeries, prices accordingly. We had a euro for about 3 days and it was sold, the 6's are still sitting there, being wholesaled soon i think.Quote:
Originally Posted by albii
I wasn't 100% sure it was the Viggen... anyway - I found the episode - it was Top Gear 9/11/2003.Quote:
Originally Posted by baboo
The car was the Saab 9-5 - only 250hp - it was 2nd gear 40-70mph--- they say quicker than Porsche 911 Turbo.
um.. what about those turbo charged version of Mazda 6 they are about to debut in Australia? think they are targeted with the liberty GTs ey?
I know it's abit late.. but the discussion could have continued from here instead of starting a new one :)
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3910
My brother in law has a Liberty GT Auto Wagon...granted that it is probably the slowest derivative of the Liberty GT but rolling acceleration is not that much better than my Euro 5AT! The GT cops turbo lag and sort of bogs itself down before taking off (4wd in action!) whereas the Euro has immediate response (probably due to Honda's drive by wire system).
When you consider the GT has 190Kw and 330Nm of torgue compared to Euro's 140kw and 220Nm, I think it just means that the Euro transfers its power to the wheels better than a ot of other cars.
Having said that, the GT is a good 15K more expensive than my Euro Lux and you dont get much more for your money (it has a pretty good McIntosh sound system, but not leaps and bounds better than the stock Euro system, and also a HUGE sunroof, but Euro has heated seats, rain sensors, HID, steering wheel controls, and no red console lights!!!).
I took a new Maxda6 for a test drive last night. I've got to say that engine was a lot more punchy than I expected. The new drive by wire is excellent -- brilliant throttle response and not jerky at all. The new 6 speed gear box is really tight (and pretty well identical to the Euro's ratios). The steering is really precise.
Unfortunately the Honda yard was closed, so I couldn't drive a Euro straight after (it's a while since I drove one) -- but from memory, it felt like the Mazda might actually have more torque low down, but the Euro gets more grunty and responsive further up the rev range.
Overall, I think the Euro is built and finished with slightly nicer materials -- the interior in the Mazda looks and feels a bit too plastic, and I think the Euro's leather is nicer. The Mazda is still a very nice car though.
My wife seems to feel that the Mazda is more sporty, whereas the Euro is more luxurious.
I'm going to go and drive a Liberty next week. However, I'm fairly sure my heart (and head) is set on the Euro; I think there'd always be that part of me that would wish I had bought one if I bought something else. I like to check out all the options though...
hmm interesting tobster
me personally, i dont like the look of the mazda 6 anymore
sure it was a breath of fresh air from mazda when it first came out, but now to me it seems like the design is lacking somewhat.....i dunno...refinement perhaps?
everytime i look at it, the appeal of it is less and less for me. i guess u can say im "bored" of the look of the mazda6. whereas with the euro (trust me i know this seems biased as i own and drive a euro, but many pple i talk to tend to agree somewhat) the design is still pretty fresh and it doesnt seem like so much of an eyesore as compared to the 6.
i read somewhere in a mag where they were comparing mazda6 vs the euro (yes it has been done to death) but i distinctly remember the editor writing in that mag "get the mazda6 if u want cool crisp design than will tend to become less and less attractive overtime". although this is one persons opinion, (and in no way am i flaming mazda6 owners) i just think overall, the euro has more class, refinement, luxury and creature comforts as compared to the mazda.
heheh let the flaming begin :D
The rear of the Euro beats the 6 pants down. The front however is up to personal preference. I like the 6 with the body kit. It can almost match the Euro, but the Euro still wins because of the aggressive front look.
When I first started looking around for a new car I was talking to our electrician at work about the 6 and the Euro and he said "Yeah, the 6 looks good but it won't age very well". This was about 2 years ago and i'd have to agree with him. To my eyes the only good looking 6 is the hatch, but only if it's got a bodykit.Quote:
"get the mazda6 if u want cool crisp design than will tend to become less and less attractive overtime".
Here's my 2 cents worth (and I currently drive a Commodore but am in the hunt for a vehicle in this Euro, 6, Liberty class).
Euro - well finished car with all the bells and whistles, and more grunt than Liberty and 6. Tacky woodgrain lets down the ivory interior. Didn't like the jerky kick coming off the accelerator in the auto I test drove. Also noticed a lot of road noise coming into the cabin on my test drive. Brakes were great.
Mazda 6 - honestly, it looks like an overweight sports car. The interior is very plasticey (if that's even a word) and will date. I think the same thing about the mazda 3. Even more fat. I just don't rate the Mazda's.
Liberty - nice car but there's just something about the exterior that I don't like. I think there's a difference in appearance between the paint on the panels versus the plastic bumpers. Also I dislike the way the bottom of the front and rear bumpers hug/curve in. It doesn't give the car a nice stance.
Vectra - I refuse to pay that much for a car that is badged like a commodore.
So the Euro gets my tick out of these. But in the back of my mind I wouldn't mind seeing what the new VE SS with the Gen IV is like due out next year. Fuel prices put me off though.
How is the fuel consumption on the new 3.8 V6 Alloytecs? They seem impressive specs-wise, especially the one that is used in the SV6. Since it has DOHC now, there should be a good spread of torque over the older flat-ish V6 (had one,VX executive, for a loaner car before and was terrible).
Two things Holden need to do with the new model:
1) New shape - that's a given.
2) Refine that V6 engine. Apparently it still vibrates like hell at high revs. From a few motoring reports I've read, it's the old but refined over the years suspension and trans that are making up for the poor engine. XR6T was my weapon of choice over the current Commodore however the BA/BF looks tired. Plus I've never really liked Fords. Exposed phillips head screws in centre consoles don't it for me. It's the one percenters that count.
So it's time to spoil myself with a Euro I think.
hmm, true about the mazda interior, we got a base model 3 as well, very cheapy feel to it. everything is a cheap plastic, from the handbrake, steering wheel to the door panels and the middle console, wheras in the euro, all these parts are leather wrapped, or made of a softer material.
ps: 3 has no balls at all :p, but at least they got it right with the triptronic, down is +, and up is -
Wheels Mag said that the new 6 is alot more refined than before. I wonder if it comes close to the Euro now?
My Misses has a 3 too. (neo base model) It has been nothing but problems since new. Mech problems and to be honest it has put me off the mazda name. Shame really cause the 3 is a nice car and I have been very impressed with the interior fit n finish. but failing handbrake, replacement driveshafts, replaced strut mounts all in 7000km.....Quote:
Originally Posted by kam
I was just watching the 'Drive' show on the 10 network and they said next week they're putting the Mazda 6 MPS up against the Liberty turbo. Might be worth a look.
EDIT: These cars must be doing the rounds.
Subaru's GT meets the Mazda 6 MPS
http://carsguide.news.com.au/story/0...-21822,00.html
So obvious to me that Honda's have better build quality than Mazda - especially the attention to details.
But having said that we have owned German/ European made cars and quite frankly, Japanese cars might not be as ergonomical or has as much flair especially in interior design, but mechanically and maintenance fees wise - the cars from the land of the rising sun craps all over the europeans for some unknown reason. So completely maintenance free.
And don't even start to bring up the Ford problems.... and don't forget Mazda is related to Ford just don't know to what extent these days.