Hi guys, just wondering what you all think about this.
Should i go for a AEM or other brand CAI or should i just DIY with a K&N inside the standard box with pipe leading in from front??
What do you think??
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Hi guys, just wondering what you all think about this.
Should i go for a AEM or other brand CAI or should i just DIY with a K&N inside the standard box with pipe leading in from front??
What do you think??
stick to an airbox. DIY
IMO
Why say that? Im going DIY CAIQuote:
Originally Posted by McChook
is there noticable power diff. in DIY CAI with K&N inside a dc2 box or would a AEM or similar CAI off the shelf be better? I cant decide.
that what I meant
I personally have not seen ANY of those american/japanese CAIs make an increse in horsepower, including skunk2, neuspeed, AEM.. they are all crap, don't do anything. Stick a good pod or a good panel filter in an airbox, and stuff a big tube front the front bumper up to the airbox.
IMO
Fair enuf- not trying 2 B harsh
hhmmmm i see McChook. But ive done some looking around and according to some of the guys who have used a DIY CAI with the pipe from front of the car to the air box and with an off the shelf CAI like AEM ,skunk blah blah blah, THe guy claims that the off the shelf is better and that the DIY CAI is some what restrictive. What you think guys?
*wank*
did a back to back comparo on a dyno
standard airbox with pipercross Vs Skunk2 CAI on an VTiR civic
the skunk2 lost 3kw, and they have a shotty paper filter on the end... save ya cash, buy a cheapo front pipe up to the airbox, stick a nice foam filter in there, and keep the rest stocker
hahahaha... the price diff. is a fair bit as well for a aftermarket CAI setup.
:)
go off the shelf...
DIY can not compare with the results that u get from R&D products...
hmmm.... decisions decisions.
what car do u have?
dyno runs are not where a cai was born to be ..
and you are not just looking at peak power ..
i raced a dc5r .. first time it was stock .. i beat it by 1 car length ..
second time .. it had aem cai and cat back exhaust ( no hfc)
beat me by one car length..
dun tell me it does nothing mate ..
just use common sense can u can think about how it will be better..
anyway .. if u wanna get a cai.. do it right first time
pay the $$ get a decent one ..
no one would buy it if it costed that much and did jack shit ..
do u think people are stupid ?
you talking to me tofu R? or McChook?
my ride: vtiR integra.
do right the first time...
do some research urself... not everything said on the forum is the way it is..
believe it or not, in forums like these, we have 3 categories of ppl...
1. dont know shit and talk shit..
2. know a bit and think they are king..
3. know alot and dont say anything.. (reason being keep the good shit to urself..)
but of course if u wanna go into more detail as to what category u fall into.. go ahead...
boost im talking to u dude ..
pay the money worth it
ive had a diy cai .. its not great .. better than stock. . but definitely not as good as r&d cai ..
JAP88R makes a good point ..
+Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
=Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Quote:
Originally Posted by McChook
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
wanna clarify what u are trying to say?
Your posts are a wank :idea:
don't waste money on AEM
have been proven to be crap
either get a mugen or a comptech icebox
diy works but defintely not as effective
simply quoting what others are saying and making a post meaning nothing but just to stir shit is just foolish.
someone asked for some advice whether to get custom intake or a product off the shelf. if u have nothing to say there is a section called 'The Lounge'. its for ppl that wanna make a comment that means something next to nothing. as for ur uncalled for comment, it totally fits perfectly in there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
and i suppose that isnt? :arrow:
Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
AEM aren't 'crap'.. they are better than stock in terms of performance, but may lose a little high end due to filter design. compared to better brands like Mugen and Comptech Icebox, there is no comparsion. these 2 simply cost twice or more than the AEM.
im not against all of what ur saying, i think it is true, but to an extent..
my advice is , do not do dodgy shit to your honda
end of story.
Quote:
Originally Posted by z10
100% with u on that one.. :!:
a wank ?
haha sounds like u must be giving mad advice jonnie
he is cumming over your words..
u wouldnt like to meet him mate ..
what u read online everyone has their own opinions .. some people like to use dodgy backyard gardenhoses and leaf rakes and shit on their hondas ..
aem is not the best .. but as jonnie said
they are definitely better..
even if u do see comparos online ..
were u there when they did the comparo .??
how do u know the people behind the comparison does not have some bias ..
for all u know the owners of aem coulda killed his whole family ... u wouldnt have the fattest clue of whats going on ..
just buy it .. dont like it .. sell it .. try it and go on ..
or just listen to people u trust that have tried it ..
diu na sing :P
People believe what people tell them.... Also, people think the sound makes it fasterQuote:
Originally Posted by tofu R
diu... itz a farkin intake for gods sake... who cares... whoopie i got 2kw from a $400 intake.... wow....
DIY man... there will be minimal difference... and use the money to buy more effective mods...
i have a DIY PVC CAI intake with K&N pod filter...
i am going to have a proper mandrel bend one made up for approx $100 - which hopefully will be a little better (mandrel bends = better air path)
the real test will be on the strip - not on the dyno...
DIY DIY :D
lets end this..
how much do u want to spend?
are u looking for an increase in performance? or do u just want the looks/sound?
if u want performance, off the shelf has guaranteed gains, provided u have the right setup.. off the shelf also has the looks.. if u got money to spend, go for off the shelf, u cant go wrong..
if u want to use plumbing pipe, well thats ur choice.. but u did ask for opinions.. and they were mine..
good luck with ur purchase.
thanks guys you've been helpful especially JAP88R.
Im gonna spend the cash on a proper CAI, might as well do it right the first time.
good luck with it let us know how..the gains r
ok Danny sure will.
good luck on ur purchase..
im sure ull be happy with it.. enjoy.. :thumbsup:
now you have decided to go aftermaket....maybe also read rowie post on CAI issue...then decide which one you want to go for....coz there is pod with short ram, long ram, no ram , filter this and filter that....it give you a little clue to what you might need to look out for and what you are hoping to achieve:)
ps: it here :arrow: http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewto...ghlight=intake
tanks ek9.
i know wat im after already. Just couldnt decided before which to get.
Cheers guys
OK, here goes....Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
My keyboard was broken (wtf??)....and only some of the keys were working....so quoting was all i could do (unfortunately).....the few words that i did type were in word-insert-symbol...and then clicking each letter!!!
I dont think there is a point in spending $400+ on a brand name cold air intake kit. The gains are soo minimal that it is literally throwing money down the drain. getting some piping made up to emulate these products (with a quality filter -eg. K&N) would do an almost identical job....but cost a mere fraction.
There is no concern for damaging your precious honda....unless you do something retarded.......you can always chuck the stock airbox/resonators back..
as far as the above passage is concerned...it is a complete wank....i make no appologies on my views about this.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Im not trying to make enemies here.....im sorry if i upset you....i just dissagree with you....but thats cool....cause everyone's entitled to their point of views.
PS- here are some good DIY CAI links:
civic:
http://www.prism.gatech.edu/~gte318h/proj6.html
del-sol:
http://www.teamdelsol.com/default.as...ke/default.asp
....the del-sol one is more detailed....but they are pretty much exactly the same.
cheers.
refer to the ..
"you guys are poor ****s thread"
---
here is a intake test:
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=514964
opinions of A's and B's endlessssss:)
That intake test is fatally flawed. On a dyno, the bonnet is open, which completely negates the use of a CAI, also the stock filter was exposed, which in normal circumstances would make it suck in hot air, but in this case it was getting cold air.....so effectively the stock airbox is also a CAI without the restriction of the longer and bendier piping.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
In fact most intake tests arent worth the paper they're written on bc they dont simulate actual driving situations at all.
Not to mention that this was on an S2000 which flows much more air than a vtir teg and hence the gains are somewhat different.
cheers
I have just got my hands onto a dc2 airbox, and i will let you know how this compares to the civic airbox soon.
Roy is right..Quote:
Originally Posted by eknine
so whats so good about your cai/car vtec16 ..
u wanna show how good your car is ?
entertain me
if u really think so... making up an excuse just to stand back from what u said.. make an excuse to say something abt someone, but it wasnt intentional? good one..Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
what do u think professional drivers do? there is obviously a reason that ppl use off the shelf products, and mainly to the fact that it has benificial gains involved. if its not worth it, im sure others wouldve known that too.. Eg, tuning house's (mugen? spoon?) i dun see any Mugen branded plumbing pipe.. nor Spoon.. main reason? theres better stuff out there..Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
maybe in ur case.. it all depends on the type of setup u have..Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
maybe some ppl cant afford it, and go Diy... thats good for them.. but if u have money to spend why not spend it? theres nothing worst than popping ur bonnet and showing ppl ur beactiful PVC plumbing pipe.. :!:Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
not everyone is as talented as u are/think u are. this is where simple bolt ons come in to play. do it once, do it right, no more hassles.. DIY? 'oh shit, my PVC piping is melting...' as for the no concern bit... others might actually have some intention to keep the car for a while... hence taking care of it and only giving it the best.. looks like ud rather spend money fixing up what stuffs up when u 'do something retarded' rather than doing it right the first time with no problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
dont be, cause what u say doesnt make me worried one bit.. enemies? its a forum, relax.. everyone is here just to share opinions.. got nothing good to say? simply just dont say anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
Another thread that I simply have to reply, this has gotta be nothing more than useless junk, from staying on topic to going completely off-topic. Sorry, but what's the point of the personal attacks, VTEC16 ... ? There's no one here to impress and most certainly name calling is nothing more than a typical forum troll.
I highly beg to differ, if your statement is true ... There will be no reputable manufacturers out there selling all sorts of intakes/air induction chambers with all the R&D behind that. Not everything is perfect and most certainly not everything is gonna give you the "numbers" but getting an intake to suit your driving is perhaps the biggest question one might ask.Quote:
Originally Posted by McChook
The following are some very well reputable manufacturers producing proven "numbers" as everyone's greatest obsession. In general, a gains of 10bhp is perhaps the maximum/optimum point from an intake upgrade. Here are the most common and perhaps also the most effective ranging from cheap to very expensive.
How much and how far you are willing to or should I say CAN go, is entirely an individual perspective. All that R&D spent by big manufacturers to extract every possible power on different powerbands is not a waste. It's the consumer that cannot appreciate or justify why everything is judged by an X amount of dollars.
Injen Race Division CAI
K&N Aircharger Kit
K&N Tyhoon CAI
Comptech Air/Icebox
Apexi Power Intake
ARC Air Chamber
Mugen CFRP CAI
J's Racing CFRP CAI
M-Gruppe K&N Japan
Skunk2? Unfortunately that is not something I'd even put on a Honda, but people put on anything they believe will make them move forward faster rather than going backwards. And what sort of foam filter would you recommend with a cheapo front pipe that can withstand engine heat/extreme cold/wet weather/stone & pebbles and most importantly will not deform? Sorry, it just not that simple.Quote:
Originally Posted by McChook
I just have to laugh at this, unfortunately Tofu R is very right. For crying out loud, you're improving your car's air intake capabilities, not plumbing around trying to justify copying an R&D design will work. If the level of competition in racing was so low, I doubt they'd need to use expensive metals like titanium to even begin with. Then again, some people would have to say titanium is nothing more but over-rated crap with a hefty price tag that god knows why people still pay big dollars for it.Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu R
Sorry, but is there a need for this? I find this highly uncalled for and I wouldn't shoot your customers like this if you ask me. Try to be more proactive and tactful rather than opinated if you want to improve your clientele.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
You might as well say, "At the end of the day, it's only a Honda. Why bother?" Pointless if you ask me. And highly un-necessary, if you can't have a discussion pointer to add, why bother making a note to up your post count? And the fact that people do care is the same people that makes development and improvements happen. Next time you think about whatever this and whatever that you put into your car, think about how it even came about to begin with.Quote:
Originally Posted by ATSE
A stubborn mind can never accept what anyone tells you, I most certainly bet you wondered how lovely JGTC machines are but yet cannot justify the cost. Yes, you're right, dyno's don't mean anything. But at least someone bothered to do a write-up and made some constructive sharing without gaining in return unlike some people who simply have an agenda online?Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
And did you bother reading the whole thread or just decide to skim and pick out what you liked from the 5 pages? Next time, before you open another round of pointless flaming attack, at least read what others have highlighted. This was clearly NOT carried out on an S2000 if you have not realized.
UP my post count? Im posting what i think.. if u don't like it... hey its perfectly fine by me, same thing as i don't like what your posting.
Oh one more thing "At the end of the day, it's only a Honda. Why bother?" ARE YOU HAPPY???? :)
Okay, boost's origional question was answered!!!
This threads gone on long enough :D
Any posts off topic or personal attcks will be deleted.
Ok guys I'm going to make an offer to anyone that wants to test all these idea's back to back on the dyno.PM me with any requests for what you want tested as far as CAI goes. Anyone want to donate there car for the day and I need someone to bring there movie camera to record all the runs and the mods that we do.
Regards Dyno Dave
I have many a rebuttal to write, but no time....going to the casino......ill start when i get home.
...sorry rowie.....let us finish the bickering....let everyone read it...and then we can all move on.
plz dont delete a word.....im really looking forward to this discussion.
cheers.
if you want to finish the bickering, send the person a PM....
If you want to add your opinion on the 'SUBJECT' then go ahead!
Mugen (copy) airbox :thumbsup:
As we said before.
Dynos are not the "be all end all " of what a good and crap CAI is .. or any other modifcation as a matter of fact ..
A dyno is one of the only pieces of machinery that can give your car a "report card" in BIG BLACK AND WHITE letters.
Some people like them
Some people find them indictive
and a lot even read the readings like they would read a bible
It IS good for people who like to show off how many ponies that they may run under the hood but never use.
but I must say that it is also good for OVERALL tuning purposes
and I have to add that it is a ROUGH INDICATION..
At the end of a day.
A car is meant to be driven on tarmac. and not on rollers
So I believe it is a fair conlcusion that road tests should be the place for a better indication of where the true power of the R&D in these products lie..
(Dyno Dave, this is not an attack on you by any means .. I admire your work.. but i AM having a go at people that cant feel the difference in modifcations .. and in turn blame it on the products being crap .. instead of realising that it is themselves that are really crap.. after all " a bad workman always blames his tools")
rebuttle ? there is no rebuttle to be made .. maybe if u actually saved money instead of pouring your money into casinos u could afford a decent CAI .. and even feel the difference?Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
if u want to see the REAL difference between intakes. and make us eat our words.. with your burkes-backyard wannabe skills.... we can meet up and have a real road test .. now that would be a good rebuttle..
im sure ap1 and jap88 are up for it too...
you keen ?
bring this tread to the race track. end of story again.
Im not standing back from what I said….iv never taken it back….here is an older thread to prove it:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/viewto...ghlight=#35112
Yes, professional drivers use better parts then I do…..they also spend a bucket-load of cash doing it. I never at any stage said that the off the shelf products aren’t largely better than DIY job…are they worth it? I doubt that 90% of ppl could tell the difference between the two. The gains are THAT small.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Tell me what setup you are implying would reap such significant gains so that there is a large difference between a properly setup DIY job and a $400 intake?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Ahhh….finally a point we agree on!! If you have money to splash….then buy the expensive stuff…..it generally is better than a DIY….so why not?Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Usually when I talk about getting some piping made up, I don’t mean PVC……maybe you have encountered some ‘interesting’ DIY folk……but I was referring to making an AEM style intake…..with metal…..rather than dodgy plastic (see the links I posted in my previous post).
you’ve got a valid point here too….if you are unable to follow simple instructions and common sense….you are better off buying an intake and having it installed by a well known and respected tuning shop / autobarn. Again, you’d have to be stupid to use PVC. Im sorry, but I cant see anyone who knows ANYTHING about cars messing their cars up by installing a DIY intake.Quote:
Originally Posted by JAP88R
Those GT champ cars are awesome…..if I could run a motorsport team I would.Quote:
Originally Posted by AP1 F20c
I did appreciate the article…I just happen to be a bit of a sceptic (wasn’t that obvious??). I don’t have an agenda, other than arguing what I believe to be correct. I try to be objective wherever possible, so we can have good semi-technical discussions.
I read the whole article….and skimmed through all the pages of the thread….there was some interesting stuff….and some b/s too.
I did not go on a ‘pointless flaming attack’, I stated my arguments after reading what others had written.
And yeh….I must’ve read “hondata S200” as being a hondata test car S2000…..or something stoopid like that.
If you read above you will see my rebuttal. I havent been to the casino in many months….im not a big gambler at all….I took $70….lost $60….then got back to $75!!….walked away with an extra fiver!…so as you can see….my money is hardly “pouring”.Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu R
If I thought it would make a big enuf difference, id buy a brand name intake, but I don’t, so I wont.
I don’t want you to eat your words, I never said that DIYs were better…as for your suggestion that we race to compare intakes, you are missing my point, in any case the effect of a filter is negligible when compared with all of the many, many variables.
Anyway fellas….no hard feelings….im off too bed….feel free to rebut my rebutals……tommorow is another day.
Cheers.
i wonder y ppl spend money buying the type R not the lesser vtir or gsi model..its only like 20kw different and some fancy recaros...not worth it dude...go DIY-ed gsi !
I'm all keen for this. I'm going to be a fly on the way for this challenge
and dude, its not just 20kw and recaros that's the difference.....
i owned a type r and numerous hondas. im just trying to say the same shit as u dude
"its not just 20kw and recaros that's the difference....."
apply this to the intake-->off the shelf vs DIY
i tested and ran both DIY and brand name, and yes gains are negligible but once again
"its not just 20kw and recaros that's the difference....."
and yeah
tested and ran on
-dyno
-race track
-street
If "gains are negligible" then whats your point? What are you actually trying to say?
for a NA car, every small bit counts
im trying to say why are you buying a vtir instead of a vti or cxi . the power different is only like hmm? 15kw? ok make it 20?
the power gain is negligible BUT every changes count. thats my point.
not to mention the throttle respone of proper intake offers. u may get extar 3-5kw out of (for example) mugen intake compare to stock or DIY but hey! 3-5kw is alot for our tiny NA cars! im not sure bout you guys for i reckon 3-5kw/throttle respone for few hundred bucks.. well worth the money i say.
ps-ive done DIY on my civic b16a and type r b18c airbox. no gain but some bad AF ratio and respone. but hey! (again) u have 1 fully sick home made "CAI" and some angry induction noise<---makes me actually think the car goes faster until i hit the race track.
peace
the dyno test was done on a ITR if you had bothered to readQuote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
no need to get bitter mate:).....i'm a post whore like you. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by ATSE
as for the rest ...well some just like to stick it up, yet most opinated ppl are telling you the true side of the coin- if they can come up half a page, there must be some info in there...again there are others that just want to put you on the dyno or the tracks...end of the day it not abt winning or losing for we all know shoot out give you a no to brag, tracking or on road has factor of driver and others....neither is abt what car you drive and what car you can beat, point is, you start throwing heaps money into the car, how can you justify the realiablility or like what tofu-r has mentioned how much can you put to the ground-useable power? maybe in short how much can you as the driver harness the power:)
maybe it time everyone see the agenda on the line...in simple BS...there are ppl in the forum that give infos(i have to conclude and say all info is good, regardless) however for some they have always end up more notoriously selling like they have to meet the months sales....remember if you pry open your engine and dump all the goodies....who is the happiest coz you have to be contented to fix all the glitch and the losses and relearn or retune the car.... i bet he is laffing to the bank now:)
dyno again is just a tool....unless you are that serious you might wanna go indulge into, nothing wrong with it, and again and again...bolts on will serve ur purpose well:)...it like saying that its superlative to say who is the best programmer in the world....
since we are all driving a street car, the best test is still on the street, op is rather exhausted now, let do RNP:)..nothing beats driving in the dark, the thrills and the sound of the nite- i reckon the skills is push to the limits in those condition:)
end of rant :D
my agenda is...maybe you shld try n-garage consulting i heard is good u know ;) - i sure the numerous platform of different cars has something which you can benchmark on, ....LMAO-- just kidding:)
This thread is getting outta hand, opinions are good but there is no need to poke each other.
Point taken, if you cant afford it then DIY, but if you can then better go for the off the shelf goodies as these parts are better than DIY. And it seems that we all agree on this, but there are some that cant justify spending heaps of cash on a system that offers minimal kWs.
1. if you can afford it and u reckon its worth every penny then -->> go brand name.
2. if you can afford it but dont think its worth the bucks then -->> DIY out of metal NOT PVC please!
3. if you cant afford it then -->> DIY out of metal.
4. And last but not lease, if you cant afford metal pipes then Do NOT DIY at all.
O.K guys so its settled, and if you guys want to prove your setup i think a head to head would be interesting. DIY vs Brand name.
so its a challenge eh?
haha for someone who loses 2+ times in a row to an integra GSi ..
what chance do u think u have against better cars ?
which gsi? unless you are talking of some lude? :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by tofu R
If you had bothered to read then you would know that i had addressed that.Quote:
Originally Posted by tanghy
Your arguments are too pathetic to argue with, im sorry.Quote:
Originally Posted by z10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost
I AGREE 110%. THANK YOU.
:idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: :idea: