2005 Turkish Grand Prix - Istanbu (discussion)

alota things have happened over the summer break... driver changes etc for 06
not to mention me playing f105 bout 100 times :D

but finally! after 3 long weeks of waiting, the formula 1 circus is back on the road...
in the first two practice sessions... mclaren as usual are at the top of the time sheets... no suprise there..
it'll be interesting to see how the race plays out... n where ferarri (michael) ends up.... will they be able to keep their pace from Hungry?
and can Sato get another finish in the points...?

should be a good one!

Iam looking forward to it..
BUT eventhough it is a new circuit, It will not be a live coverage!!.. :( Poor ass channel ** ..

Last year we had live coverage with CHINA GP because it was a new circuit.

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Originally Posted by TwEigh

Last year we had live coverage with CHINA GP because it was a new circuit.

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Are u in Australia? Cause the only reason it was 'close' to live is because we have similar time zones....

huh? what do u mean?

Here in perth, it will be aired at 10.30pm (perth time).
in turkey, the race will start at 8pm (perth time)

hes talking about china...
how it was closer to our timezone... so ch 10 decided to show it live (in the afternoon) instead of delaying it 5 hrz..

I think there is more reason than that.
How about Malaysia and japan? channel 10 never show it live.

Australia and USA are the only 2 GP that channel 10 showed live so far this year.

well in perth, in average channel 10 usually air the show 2.5 - 3 hours after the GP started

One thing which will be a factor is the running order for qualifying. On a new track with low grip, it will seriously hurt the drivers out first. Mainly Coulthard and Montoya, but also to a certain extent Alonso.

Live races I can think of are: China, USA, Canada, Melbourne, Brazil (?)

I think McLaren and Toyota will both qualify high, due to abit more data then everyone else running 3 cars out there.

Webber was 3rd fastest at one stage in Friday Practice, but now his way down the field.

I'm going with McLaren 1-2 for now.

i got a feeling Jenson will be up there for Qualifying... maybe a front row start...
the BAR's were looking strong in Saturday practice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ^^v

alota things have happened over the summer break... driver changes etc for 06
not to mention me playing f105 bout 100 times :D

but finally! after 3 long weeks of waiting, the formula 1 circus is back on the road...
in the first two practice sessions... mclaren as usual are at the top of the time sheets... no suprise there..
it'll be interesting to see how the race plays out... n where ferarri (michael) ends up.... will they be able to keep their pace from Hungry?
and can Sato get another finish in the points...?

should be a good one!

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HEY IM TURKISH! LOL :p

Great stuff, new track, lots of qualifying action. I love it... being a high downforce track suits the Williams and the BARs had great pace in practice, but both had disasterous qualifying laps!! But not as bad as Michael, who has not shown pace and went off the track in qualifying. Looks like he'll be at the back this race and will probably not progress very far.

Ferrari continue to slide and the McLaren vs Renault rages still.

-Viv-

aiiyaaa...
so shattered bout the two BAR's qualifying...
turn 8 got em both (not to mention a few other drivers)...
13th n 20th... ...
oh well it was an incident filled session

hmm i feel that Pablo might be fueled up for the race.... just have to wait n see i guess... n kimi.. miles ahead as usual...

n i must say.. the Bridgestones aint performing at all on this track... the two ferraris r some way off the pace...

hahaha in turkey a race thats a first lmao

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ^^v

i got a feeling Jenson will be up there for Qualifying... maybe a front row start...
the BAR's were looking strong in Saturday practice...

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You got it half right! Interesting line up for the race, cant wait to see the highlights of it on rpm this arvo, looked like a great session.

Qualifying times:

Kimi 1.26.797
Fisichella 1.27.039

If that is Kimi's race pace, my god.
Juan can usually match him, so if Juan is filled more then Kimi bye bye Renault.

TAKUMA Sato will start tonight's Turkish Grand Prix from the wrong end of the grid after race officials deleted his qualifying time following an incident during qualifying overnight.

Sato made a mistake on his qualifying lap then held up Australia's Mark Webber when he cruised round on his slowing-down lap in an effort to conserve fuel for the race.

Sato defended himself by claiming there was "a radio interference problem" between him and his team but Webber, who was furious and stormed through the paddock after his lap, said he had no excuses for poor driving.

"They said there were communications problems but even still if he can't talk to the team it's his job," said Williams driver Webber.

"On your in-lap the main priority is fuel and check where the other guy is.

"He stuffed his qualifying lap up, he saved a lot of fuel and he stuffed up my lap. It's a very important corner to get right and it's even harder to get right when there's traffic.

"I came round there and I thought he's got a problem and he'll do his best to get out of the way. He didn't have a problem but he tried in the end to get out of the way. I had to go to the inside and lost a quarter of a second."

Webber finished the session with the seventh fastest time but was beaten by his sixth-placed team-mate Nick Heidfeld by just 0.015 seconds and may have even had a shot at fifth placed Jarno Trulli were it not for Sato's obstruction.

Both drivers were called in front of the stewards as part of the investigation into the incident and the governing body, the FIA, said Sato had "illegitimately impeded" Webber during the qualifying session.

Poor guy, he's not having a good time of it. But seriously, if you're driving that slowly, look in your mirrors and get off the racing line! Not a very smart display of driving, but I'll have to wait and have a look at it on RPM.

Sure was action packed.

James and Martin and even our blokes gave Sato a fair flaming for it, and rightly so!

yeah he was at fault there... shoulda got right outa the way if the situation was unavoidable...
gotta feel sorry for the bloke though... hes under HUGE pressure to perform... n he recently became a father...

I no, IMO he really has to start getting serious points to stay in F1

Sato said radio was broken, Nick Fry said he (Sato) had his finger on the radio.

Doesn't matter, only a few more races and he'll be gone! :D
Doesn't deserve that seat, same car as jenson last year and did sweet F all with it.

yeah I heard he didnt have the radio working, however, you would be expecting the car to come through on its lap and to be in his position is just hopeless.

During GP2 it was raining.
Could have our first wet race in 2 years I think it is.
By the time the F1 guys get on, I bet it clears up.

But from what I been reading new tarmac and water don't mix at all.
Someone explained it as "the GP2 race was like watching drunk midgets on ice!"

I sure as hell hope its raining, should make things a little challenging for everyone

Jase, you dont think last yaer he had a bad luck with engines blowing up?

i guess fisi should lose his drive aswell, same car as alonso and doesnt do crap with it?

jsut trying to understand ur view, not efighting :P, we all entitled to our views :)

Watching the race now. It's a good track wiht lots of overtaking! Webber's smack up with M Schumacher's car was :thumbdwn: So suss..

bloody webber!!! he was getting too aggresive with his over taking all through the race!

What an incredible circuit, its got me so interested, so much overtaking and great driving:thumbsup:

i cannot belive it...monty choked.

HOW COULD MONTIERO RAM INTO THE REAR OF MONTOYA?!?!?!!?!?!?!
Arrgghh... Montiero ought to get his butt kicked! Was he pissed off being lapped by Montoya? Just caused Montoya to get a flat spot on this already shitty tyres....

BTW, did you see Kimi get his face sprayed with champagne? It even got into his eyes! :D

mannn i was playing games..then flipped to the race..all over...:(

only saw the last few laps..ahahaha

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Originally Posted by dc2dc2dc2

i cannot belive it...monty choked.

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he din choke... he lost the rear end coz montiero took out his diffusers

anywayz
OMGZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ.... MONTOYA>>> MONTIERO!
so close to the end as well... aargh..... i woulda got 6 tips right if it wasnt for that ><"""""

but what a race it was!... IMO one of the better ones this year.. alota overtaking! good to see...
strange bout the williams though... 4 tyre/rim faliures =o

n lookz lik BAR r on the pace now.. 'nearly' on par with the Renaults...a shame they didnt start further up the grid... next round should be interesting indeed..

EDIT: how funny is James... when he wuz describing fisi ..;"hes like a GHOST SHIP" lolz

I'm not so sure aaronng. Webber was there, Schumacher cut him off. Webber was 2sec per lap faster than Schumacher. But in the end it didn't matter, 'cos they were both doomed anyway. I can't really blame Michael, 'cos it would've been hard to know where Webber was (he still could have left some room, 'cos Webber was closing fast!!), but also once Webber had committed to the pass, there was no way out. We all know how hard Schumacher defends his position, it was always going to take a good move to get past. Unfortunate. You cannot blame Webber for going for it, he made a great move, got the line and then Michael chopped him off.

But then the next lap, Michael was stupid and almost took out Fisichella when he was limping back to the pits!! Bad driving. Maybe he should go with Sato to the "How to use your mirrors" course.

And Montoya got infront of Monteiro but cut right across infront and stomped on the brakes. Not much Monteiro could do. The McLaren stops a lot better than the Jordan. Stupid mistake from Montoya. There was just no need to pull back across!

BEST RACE OF THE SEASON!!! Best race by a long way. Finally there's a track which actually challenges the drivers. They really had to work for it in Turkey and there was actually overtaking!! Best track in F1 and what a debut for the event.

I'm happy for Montoya's mistake, 'cos it means I tipped the top 3!! WOOHOO!!

-Viv-

lol..yeah...i guess you have to know when to be aggressive and when to let it slide...well said

funny how no ones mentioned this yet... but who saw Mike Tyson ROFL...
he was right up against the pit wall without ear plugs.. watching the cars go by... lolololz

I guess he just doesn't like ears.

Yeah i supprised to see mike tyson was there, despite his financial problem and being rumoured to become a porn star with Jenna jameson haha

and Marky Webber obviously has the hobby to crash his car into someone else's. same thing happen between him and fisi last time. And i dont understand why Williams rated him highly. I think Nick >>> Webber

that was a pretty good race.
i wonder if micheal is still pissed at webber! lol
wells i racked up 4points. :):)
bloody button drove so good that he took my 5th point from trulli.

watchin that incident...
to me it looks like schumacher caused it...

schumacher dived to webber's right webber crossed back to he left with a faster car... and was right next to schumacher in the apex... schumacher just didnt leave enough room...

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Originally Posted by Vivski

I guess he just doesn't like ears.

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ah man i just got that lolz
good call ahahhaaa

I personally think both are to blame, at pretty much even levels. I went to bed before it finished, missed that incident with the jordan and Montoya, very silly

they're blaming each other lolz

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[21/08/05 - 19:06]
http://f1.racing-live.com/img/vide.gif
Webber critical of 'unsporting' Schumacher
The BMW Williams driver in the wars again
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http://f1.racing-live.com/img/vide.gif



http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/img...05_220x151.jpg
Webber had a forgetable race in Turkey
Michael Schumacher was accused of 'un-sportsmanlike behaviour' by Mark Webber after they clashed during the inaugural Turkish Grand Prix. The pair collided on lap 14 of the 58-lap race when Schumacher battled on track with Webber, who had already suffered an early puncture, and turned in on the Williams driver at the end of the back straight. Both drivers ultimately retired from the race.

"I think he was out of order because in the braking area it doesn't matter if you are a lap down or whatever, and I was catching him," Webber stated. "I was a lot quicker and I wanted to get through and get on with my race. The Ferraris were very, very slow and Michael was incredibly slow and I pulled out of his slipstream side-by-side. He started moving across in the braking area, which all the drivers have agreed not to do that because it is not sporting-like and we have agreed not to do that."

"When he started to do that I wasn't that worried about making contact at the end," the Williams driver admitted. "I didn't show him much respect in the end when we went around the corner and then we collided."


It was an optimistic move from Webber as Schumacher had to turn into the left-hander at some point, but did turn in late. The inevitable collision ripped the front nose cone off Webber's car and damaged the rear end of Schumacher's Ferrari, which forced both to pit for repairs and put the German in the garage for 18 laps as his team worked on the problem.

Schumacher eventually gave up late in the race to post his first retirement in nine Grands Prix while a second tyre problem caused Webber to pull in and retire for the fifth time this year. But Schumacher refused to take the blame for the accident, which went unpunished by the stewards, and although he reserved final judgement until watching a video replay he thought Webber was in the wrong.

"Heading down the straight I saw him coming close and he went to the right," explained Schumacher. "I started to brake and I couldn't see him, I didn't know where he was, and going into the corner I got a bang in the rear. I would suspect he was not really next to me. I don't think it makes sense to do that in that position, being one lap down, because you are never going to make up that lap. But I have to watch the video."

Webber admitted he could understand what had gone through the German's head and said: "Sometimes even when he is in the shit he doesn't like to give or take. But that is probably why he is a good champion!"

Or perhaps it was just a racing incident?

E.A.
Source AFP

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f1live.com

EDIT: on a diff note .. it was interesting to see the pace increase (by 2 secs in some cases) durnig the race.. as the tracked quickened up...

Awww... Webber is so unsportsmanlike. It's a racing accident. That was a high-risk overtaking manouver. Good drivers like Kimi, Michael and Alonso don't pull this kind of overtaking moves because it is too risky, and therefore they rarely retire from damage, compared to Webber and the lower teams.

Even during the audio interview after he retired, M Schumacher did not blame Webber for the incident. And now Webber has to make it an official news article at AFP? Gee.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vivski

I'm not so sure aaronng. Webber was there, Schumacher cut him off. Webber was 2sec per lap faster than Schumacher. But in the end it didn't matter, 'cos they were both doomed anyway. I can't really blame Michael, 'cos it would've been hard to know where Webber was (he still could have left some room, 'cos Webber was closing fast!!), but also once Webber had committed to the pass, there was no way out. We all know how hard Schumacher defends his position, it was always going to take a good move to get past. Unfortunate. You cannot blame Webber for going for it, he made a great move, got the line and then Michael chopped him off.

But then the next lap, Michael was stupid and almost took out Fisichella when he was limping back to the pits!! Bad driving. Maybe he should go with Sato to the "How to use your mirrors" course.

And Montoya got infront of Monteiro but cut right across infront and stomped on the brakes. Not much Monteiro could do. The McLaren stops a lot better than the Jordan. Stupid mistake from Montoya. There was just no need to pull back across!

BEST RACE OF THE SEASON!!! Best race by a long way. Finally there's a track which actually challenges the drivers. They really had to work for it in Turkey and there was actually overtaking!! Best track in F1 and what a debut for the event.

I'm happy for Montoya's mistake, 'cos it means I tipped the top 3!! WOOHOO!!

-Viv-

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Yes, Webber was faster. And if he was 2 seconds faster, he could have overtaken Schumacher at a better corner. This is not the first time Webber has pulled this move and crashed into the other car. Remember Sepang GP? Same thing. Webber is too aggressive for his own good. He doesn't weigh the risks associated with overtaking in that particular corner. He's acting like how Sato was 2 years ago, overtaking and crashing into other cars.

As I said, the drivers who are at the top of the ranks are there because they don't pull these stunts and therefore rarely retire.

i dunno if he is too aggressive.. perhaps he just doesnt have a feel for clean overtaking?? As comparison did you see how he got stuck behind klien and couldnt find a way past while button who found himself in the same position made little work of overtaking klien. Though also noteworthy that button had a phenominal drive and even put an awesome move on alonso.

Eitherway yes that race was totally awesome! once they flatten the surface it will be even better!

He is very aggresive, many of his retirements have been from trying to perform manouvers. It was a simply racing incident IMO and nothing to really fire up about to badly.

how good was Button, only if he started infront of the grid... he'd be in the top 3 atleast. Not bad starting at the back to finish 5th... great to watch

how would everyone rate that track? I thought it was a killer race with plenty of action! Wish i had the energy to stay up longer:thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigteethygrin

i dunno if he is too aggressive.. perhaps he just doesnt have a feel for clean overtaking?? As comparison did you see how he got stuck behind klien and couldnt find a way past while button who found himself in the same position made little work of overtaking klien. Though also noteworthy that button had a phenominal drive and even put an awesome move on alonso.

Eitherway yes that race was totally awesome! once they flatten the surface it will be even better!

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Yeah! Button was good. Did you hear the sound of his engine after the team director told him Mix5? It was so high pitched that it sounded different from the other cars.

Webber is a 1 corner attack person. Button plans his overtaking from a few corners before the actual overtaking point. M Schumacher and Kimi do the same as well. That's why they have a higher overtaking success rate (without crashing into the other car).

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Originally Posted by jackosimm

how would everyone rate that track? I thought it was a killer race with plenty of action! Wish i had the energy to stay up longer:thumbsup:

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It's a great track! My complaint about F1 was that it was turning into a starting and pit race. No more actual overtaking. This Turkey track is great!!!!

I usually fall asleep halfway after the pit stops. But for this race I managed to stay awake, even after washing 3 cars earlier in the evening!

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Originally Posted by redliner

how good was Button, only if he started infront of the grid... he'd be in the top 3 atleast. Not bad starting at the back to finish 5th... great to watch

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sooo true huh...
should be interesting if they keep the pace for next round...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jackosimm

how would everyone rate that track? I thought it was a killer race with plenty of action! Wish i had the energy to stay up longer:thumbsup:

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one of the best tracks imo...
so many overtaking possabilities..
wuz such a good race to watch (compared to some of the others this season)

n that long left handers' already become "legendary"

Yep, awesome track, awesome race. However I reckon they should take action against monterio for taking out montoya, in the end it cost him 2nd place, and that was getting off lightly. DISCIPLINE!

As for webber and mark, def schu's fault for crowding him but i dont think it was intentional. Racing incident for sure.

And how about alonso the lucky prick. Again 1 lap out he is given an absolute gift.

Bah!

Good to see everyone happy with it. Like many have said, this season there's been a lack of over taking an such manouvers which Turkey provided! Love it:D

OMG Best! Yes. BEST race of the year....

You gotta love turn 8 the Quadrupal apex turn, 7 SEC of turning!!!!! :)

I'm a bit excited cause i just watched it....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nEUROtic

Yep, awesome track, awesome race. However I reckon they should take action against monterio for taking out montoya, in the end it cost him 2nd place, and that was getting off lightly. DISCIPLINE!

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i think ur wrong there...
Montoya clearly fuked up... he was bout to lap Monterio for the 2nd time... why the fuk did he rush it for... not to mention getting right back on the racing line (right infront of him..) after passing then inadvertently braked as hard as he could... wtf did he expect... everyone knowz the mclarens had crazi braking (if not the best in the field) on the day...
no excuses for Montoya really, he sealed his own fate... poor Tiago had no choice but to brake as hard as he could causing his tyres to lock..

I'll do the tips tomorrow and write what I think.
But for now, what a track!

lol c'mon with those tips! most ppl got the podium right!
Im awaiting your analysis of the race jase lol

Well first off, well done to Turkey I must say.
If Russia, South Africa, Mexico and India build tracks like this, bye bye Australia and other crap circuits.

Montoya, oh Montoya.
Still Monteiro thinks that Montoya was at fault.
How that is so is WAY BEYOND ME!
He had blue flags waving, and wasn't the first time in the race he out braked himself. Just plain bad driving by the youngsta!

Then there was Webber and God.
As hard as this is to say, I think both drivers are to blame for this!
Both should of been smarter and seen outside the one corner, Michael would of hard the inside line to the next corner, but thats motorsport.

The start to me was fantastic, Kimi dropping to 3rd, then back to 1st in a few corners. Go son!

Red Bull are showing just how good that Cosworth engine is.
Button actaully had a good drive, not that you couldn't tell with those wanker commentators.

Brilliant race overall, just shows that even with 2005 spec aero you can overtake easily if the track allows it.
Just proves my theory that Forumla 1 cars have out-grown most of the older tracks!

Oh and Alonso has nothing on Kimi.

Added: I can't believe Renault.
Giving Fisichella those orders, then the fuel pump stuffed up.
Give this man a break, god he has some talent, if only Fablio can get his finger, tounge and **** out of Alonso we could see it.

Tips have been updated.
I thought I'd do them now.

If Montoya stuck to 2nd, I would of got 4 points :o
People did do well.

i admit that the race was an exciting one. i almost fell off the bed due to the excitment at the start of the race. im a kimi fan so my heart kinda skipped a few beats but was fine after he regain pole postion. =]

as for montoya...i wouldve been so blardy stirred! that daymn Jordan car shouldve let him thru! McClaren couldve had P1 and P2! bummer.

the footage was good too, kinda more entertaining with the showing of mike tysona dn other VIPS and for the guys....there were some chicks.

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Originally Posted by LUD02C

Tips have been updated.

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haha at least im not on the bottom anymore ;)
I better join early next year

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Originally Posted by TwistedGurl

i admit that the race was an exciting one. i almost fell off the bed due to the excitment at the start of the race. im a kimi fan so my heart kinda skipped a few beats but was fine after he regain pole postion. =]

as for montoya...i wouldve been so blardy stirred! that daymn Jordan car shouldve let him thru! McClaren couldve had P1 and P2! bummer.

the footage was good too, kinda more entertaining with the showing of mike tysona dn other VIPS and for the guys....there were some chicks.

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The Jordon did let him through. Montoya came back into the line after overtaking and braked, catching Monteiro unaware... Quite silly... But remember, Montoya is a top tier driver while Monteiro is still learning the ropes, especially on a new track like this. But poor poor Montoya.....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LUD02C

Brilliant race overall, just shows that even with 2005 spec aero you can overtake easily if the track allows it.
Just proves my theory that Forumla 1 cars have out-grown most of the older tracks!

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I have never noticed you say that, but it makes perfect sense! I havent ever realised this, and it does seem very clear.
They need more new tracks to suit the current specifications of Formula 1 cars, such as turkey which provided a thrilling race. Bahrain and China too. And yes, bye bye Australia if more of these tracks keep coming up. Funny enough I wouldnt mind giving up our GP for more of them.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

The Jordon did let him through. Montoya came back into the line after overtaking and braked, catching Monteiro unaware... Quite silly... But remember, Montoya is a top tier driver while Monteiro is still learning the ropes, especially on a new track like this. But poor poor Montoya.....

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ok.:)

sorri but im still a newbie to the f1 so i dont realli know much. =] :confused: :p

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Originally Posted by jackosimm

I have never noticed you say that, but it makes perfect sense! I havent ever realised this, and it does seem very clear.
They need more new tracks to suit the current specifications of Formula 1 cars, such as turkey which provided a thrilling race. Bahrain and China too. And yes, bye bye Australia if more of these tracks keep coming up. Funny enough I wouldnt mind giving up our GP for more of them.

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Doesn't Albert Park or the Victorian Government have a contract for the F1 for another 10yrs or was it 6? :o

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Originally Posted by TwistedGurl

ok.:)

sorri but im still a newbie to the f1 so i dont realli know much. =] :confused: :p

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Nah... I would have gotten out of the F1 car and ran over to the Jordon to bash him up if I were Montoya. :p

Eh, did I meet you at the last Harry's meet?

Juan Pablo Montoya may believe Tiago Monteiro is to blame for him losing second place in Sunday’s Turkish GP, however, the Jordan driver says the only person who is to blame is Montoya.

Two laps before the end of the race Montoya went to lap Monteiro. However, as he pulled in front of the Jordan driver, Monteiro hit him from behind, sending the McLaren driver spinning out of second place.

"I was lapping Monteiro, then he did to me what (Jos) Verstappen did to me a few years ago and he hit me and broke the rear diffuser which lost me all the downforce at the back,” said an angry Montoya.

However, Monteiro claims he was not at fault.

"I will definitely be having a word with Juan Pablo to clear this one up," he told The Guardian.

"The drivers have said among themselves 10,000 times not to cut across like that."

"Why did he do it two laps from the end? I was surprised because we would have been doing 120mph on the brakes when we touched and that is dangerous."

"It was so stupid... he's the first one to talk about it all the time in the briefings. You don't move position in the braking zone for safety reasons."

The Jordan driver added that perhaps Montoya should have learnt his lesson the first time this happened four years ago in Brazil with Verstappen.

"If it was the same, then maybe he should know that you don't go back in front of someone when you've just overtaken him because the guy behind loses downforce completely," he concluded.

I'm sorry Monteiro, but when a blue flag is waved at you when someone is coming to lap you then you must allow space for them to overtake as soon as you can without loosing position (to another car)

Now lets look at the facts.

1/ No one was near Monteiro (as in a competitor)
2/ He had outbraked himself at corner 2 I think it was and nearly hit Klien (I think)
3/ In Germany he made the same stupid mistake and took out Jacques.

Sorry Monteiro but yet again, you outbraked yourself, as a podium finisher Montoya had every single right to go back on the racing line.

Anyone disagree?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LUD02C

I'm sorry Monteiro, but when a blue flag is waved at you when someone is coming to lap you then you must allow space for them to overtake as soon as you can without loosing position (to another car)

Now lets look at the facts.

1/ No one was near Monteiro (as in a competitor)
2/ He had outbraked himself at corner 2 I think it was and nearly hit Klien (I think)
3/ In Germany he made the same stupid mistake and took out Jacques.

Sorry Monteiro but yet again, you outbraked yourself, as a podium finisher Montoya had every single right to go back on the racing line.

Anyone disagree?

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The blue flag was waved, and he did let Montoya through. So it's not a blue flag violation.
1) Yes, no one was a competitor near him, and he let Montoya through.
2) Yes, drivers with less experience on a brand new track tend to misjudge the braking zone.
3) Yes, he's relatively a newbie in F1. His first race around a circuit was in 1997. In 1999 he started in F3. He's only started in F1 in the middle of 2004 as a test driver for Renault and in the end of 2004 with Jordan as a regular driver. He's the newest newbie in F1! He's got only slightly over 1/2 a year of F1 experience. But then again, remember when Montoya crashed into the rear of M Schumacher in the Monaco GP under safety car conditions?

Is it Monteiro's fault? My opinion is that he was put into a situation where he was not skilled enough to avoid collision. Drivers usually only lock the brakes when there is no room on the left or right to avoid a collision. If you observe the top drivers (which is everyone except Minardi and Jordan :p), they tend to brake AND drive off the track when a collision is eminent. You can always see this in the 1st corner after starting. The veterans all avoid and end up on the grass, driving around the mess while the newbies get smashed front wings and losing carbon fibre everywhere.

Now, Montoya..... WHO THE HECK zips back in front of another car and brakes hard unless the car behind is a damn tailgator on the M4? Sounds like poor judgement like in the Monte Carlo incident....

I say it is both the drivers' fault.

i agree with aaronng...
n as i said earlier... the McLarens have superb breaking.. quite alot better than... the Jordans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by toE

Doesn't Albert Park or the Victorian Government have a contract for the F1 for another 10yrs or was it 6? :o

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lol Jase, wanna help me out here? I dont have a clue:rolleyes:

You can't say because he is new that he should be given extra "care" around the track.
If a driver is on the track, holding a super licence I think they should have no excuse.

I do see your point, and its a good one ;)

Jackosimm - I know they resigned it, but for how long I can't remember. 6 years is ringing bells in my head for some reason.

Quote:

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[23/08/05 - 15:00]
Japanese gamer grabs GrandPrixGame Jackpot
For the inaugural Turkish Grand Prix
http://f1.racing-live.com/img/l3.gif
http://f1.racing-live.com/img/vide.gif


http://f1.racing-live.com/photos/img...05_220x151.jpg
One winner guessed the right order!

The inaugural Grand Prix from Istanbul, Turkey proved to be a great race and the track will surely become a firm favourite with fans and drivers alike. Especially for a certain Mr Ishihara, from Japan, who was smart enough to select the top 6 and scoop the entire GrandPrixGame Jackpot. He wins £2075!!

Bet he was shouting when Montoya was overtaken by Alonso near the end!

Although the 2 McLarens were able to dominate the front for most of the race, World Championship leader Alonso kept up the pressure, and was right there to slip into second place from Montoya near the end. Had he not, NOBODY would have won the GrandPrixGame Jackpot and there would have been a Rollover!

There was plenty of overtaking and close fighting in the mid field with Jenson Button again driving superbly. The two Red Bull drivers also showed they could be a growing force with a confident drive from both Coulthard and Klien.

The GrandPrixGame challenges F1 fans to guess the first 6 cars to cross the finish line. Each entry adds £1 to the GrandPrixGame Jackpot and whoever gets the top 6 right wins the entire Jackpot - it's that simple!


A large number of GrandPrixGame players came very close with their selections and 6 managed to get 5 cars correctly placed. 28 players managed 4 and a whole host of players got 3 cars.

All these players win Runners Up Prizes of free GrandPrixGame entries or free use of the special F1-Live.com service, the choice is theirs!

But it is Mr Ishihara we must salute today as the smartest GrandPrixGamer! Well done sir and we hope you enjoy spending £2075.

Please check the Results and Analysis page at www.grandprixgame.com later this week for further details, plus there will be a summary of the GrandPrixGame results sent out.

Next race is Monza on 04/09/05 – don’t forget to play the GrandPrixGame for what looks set to be an exciting Italian GP.

The GrandPrixGame - makes any Grand Prix a whole lot of fun!

www.grandprixgame.com

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that coulda been me ><""" .. fkn montoya lolz

Yes, I have changed my opinion on the incident. I still think Montoya was at fault, 'cos there was no reason for him to cut across. As soon as he did that, the contact was inevitable. As Monteiro said, he would have lost all downforce as soon as Montoya cut infront of him.
Monteiro should have given Montoya more space, there was no reason to crowd him. But again, why would Montoya cut back across? You just dont do that in the braking zone!

It really was a great race and a great challenging track. Look at how many drivers made mistakes. I think the fact that it rained in the morning also made the track a lot better. It didn't allow the track to rubber up, so there was less disadvantage when pulling off the racing line to overtake. I think they should hose off the track before the race every time. A clean track makes for much better racing. You also don't have the dirty track (marbles) on the inside of the braking zone.

But Jase, I disagree with your thinking the track is to blame. We need more challenging tracks, that is for sure. But the downforce on these cars is just rediculous. Even in Turkey there were only 2 places to overtake. And the car behind had to be a lot faster than the one infront to get close enough to overtake.

The cars have outgrown many of the tracks, but the cars have outgrown overtaking. They are fast becoming immune to overtaking. Look at how the cars at the back are struggling to get past the Minardis and Jordans. And the only overtaking at the front happens on the first lap when the tyres and brakes are cold.
Has there been one overtaking move for the lead in any race this season (except on the first lap)? Even when the tyres are porked, they can still defend their position. It's rediculous and has to be changed.

There have been a few blue flag issues this season. Seriously, the front runners are 3-5 seconds per lap faster than the person they're lapping... they shouldn't need the blue flags!! They should be able to carve straight past, but they can't.

Yeah most people would assume that a front runner could pass the back people very very simply. Must take some tactics for a move like that alone.

Talking about passing/overtaking, Has anyone seen the Dijon Race back in 1979? Rene Arnoux vs Gilles Villeneuve. My god we need racing like that.... They touch wheels they ovetake at least 6 times in 2 laps.... I know this wont happen even in 2008 but hey, I can hope can't I?

If anyone wants the 3 lap clip I'll post for you, Just post on this thread if you want it....

Yep Gimme
throne_of_souls@hotmail.com

K i'll upload it after skool and post link here.....

I read this on another forum, it had a bunch of people trying to compare Senna to Schumacher and this man somes it up perfectly.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nafe
Actually I've been watching F1 since the mid 80s thanks.

I just don't think it's valid to compare drivers from different eras. It's like when they compile the "all time greatest" lists. How can you compare drivers like Moss, Hill and Fangio to the drivers of the 80s, 90s or current? Sure you can come up with all sorts of methods, but the periods of racing are just too different for me.

I was never a huge fan of Senna, but I did admire his skill behind the wheel greatly, especially in the wet. An absolute master of control. But the whole Senna v Schumacher arguments are littered with comparisons between different eras of racing (manual vs auto gearboxes, non-TC vs TC etc etc) and also the inevitable rose-tinted glasses. Yes, Senna was a big advocate of safety etc, but he also had no qualms in running someone off the track to win a World Championship, and even admitted as such later on. He was not without his faults, as is Schumacher. I admire both for their talent and skills, but also deplore the darker sides to their characters (or lack of with Schumi?)

So, IMHO, comparisons between eras are useless to me. I prefer to think back on drivers and compare them to the people they raced against. Not against who they could have or should have raced.

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exactly what I say, the vehicles, rules, regulations, technology and racing all together is just way too different to compare