[Euro] Reasons for power loss

Hey everyone,

To cut a long story short, my accord euro seems to have lost a noticable amount of power everywhere from 3k rpm up. Wondering what some possible reasons for this are?

my guesses:
faulty ecu
faulty master cylinder

a bit of background:
I've had my master cylinder replaced once already at 10k km and it is due to be replaced again this friday (approx 19k km). I'm hoping that this is somehow affecting the power? and then when its replaced it fixes the problem (it doenst feel as though the clutch is completely engaging/ disengaging)

i've also had the 20k km service so i know its not old/burnt oil or anything...

i've also had problems with ecu after i had a stereo installed (car would lock itself, and interior lgihts wouldnt turn off in auto mode - all intermitent problems)

goin up hills at full throttle the car bogs down at around 4k rpm and it gives a sensation as though the clutch is slipping (though im pretty sure it isnt)

:confused::confused::confused:

Possibilities... Endless...

What I can think of, Filter is dirty, grounding problem after your ICE install...

Does your clutch feel like it's slipping? That is one problem too....

Thanks for them... I'd forgotten about the air filter, i'll check that out (the revs are rising quite slow too :thumbdwn:). Is there a way to clean the stock filter, or do u simply buy a new one?

A dirty air filter shouldn't make for a "noticeable amount of power" loss.

I'd be feeling nervous about the electrics -- since that caused some obvious other problems and is the only major thing to have changed.

Stupid question: does it happen when everything is switched off? i.e. no stereo, no air-con, etc.

How big is the stereo? Do you need a bigger battery?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

Thanks for them... I'd forgotten about the air filter, i'll check that out (the revs are rising quite slow too :thumbdwn:). Is there a way to clean the stock filter, or do u simply buy a new one?

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Pick out any leaves, stones and dead bugs. You can try vacuuming it, but you won't get most of the dirt out as it is meant to be embedded between the paper fibers.

It's good to clean the filter once in awhile. Clears it up a bit more, and you can really see how much crap does end up in there.

Though i have noticed lately that power isn't as good as well, could be because the service is due for the car, or it's just been the cold days and it's not churning over as nicely as normal.

maybe try to reset the ECU?

A dirty filter will indeed cut performance to a vehicle and it's noticable Tobster :)

When you vacumn the filter, vacumn it on the side that comes into contact with the air first, not the inside of it, as it is a paper element filter like AaronNg mentioned, it will be embedded deep inside which can be hard to remove..

i reckon the fuel lately has been crapola. I thought my car was running bad and had a noticable power loss. I poured in a bottle of octane boost last time i filled and magically my power plus a bit more ( JAP SPEC ECU ) has returned.

speaking of fuel...it's sitting at $148.9 for optimax today.

What are the weather conditions where you live? If it is muggy or hot you will notice a power drop. My Euro misses those crisp 5 degree mornings in Melbourne.

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Originally Posted by h22a accord

speaking of fuel...it's sitting at $148.9 for optimax today.

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Time to buy a jazz

Quote:

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Originally Posted by euro1978

Time to buy a jazz

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and put it on LPG

hopefully its not the fuel , i only use bp ultimate 98 octane.

yfin, weather conditions were quite cool when i started noticing the loss in power (even on winter nights below 10 degrees it felt the same). I've felt the difference between a muggy hot day and cold crisp day and its not that coz its just crap all the time haha...

i really hope its not the ecu... how are you meant to reset that thing?

virIIx i was really hoping the 20k km service would fix the problem but :thumbdwn:

No one thinks it could be a fualty master cylinder? coz when accelrating i get the feeling the clutch isnt fully engaged - like having the clutch ever so slightly depressed and accelrating...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by EuroAccord13

A dirty filter will indeed cut performance to a vehicle and it's noticable Tobster :)

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I take your point and I agree -- what I meant was that on a regularly serviced car that's only done 19000 km, I think it's unlikely (unless you've been driving through desert sand storms or such) that the filter is going to be cause here... :D

If it was the clutch (which it might be), surely you'd notice it throughout the rev range, not just over 3000?

The engine otherwise is running normally? Presumably the head and gasket are fine... If it's been serviced the injectors should be fine...

Presumably nothing has stuffed up on the mufflers and the exhaust isn't partially blocked?

Chris F: what is your fuel consumption like lately? if it is unrealistically high, then something definitely wrong.

not sure how to reset and ecu in a euro but on any other honda car its an easy 10 min job. does anyone know if a euro is any different?

Tobster, i doubt its the air filter too but i haven't checked it yet, so i'm not completely ruling it out.

the faulty MC may be affecting power throughout the rev range... but its hard to tell with the euro because around 3k rpm and under is fairly sluggish usually. (might be why i dont notice it so much).

PNR88, i havent been doing a lot of driving (have been avoiding driving untill i get the new MC so i cant really say)

h22a, i've never heard how to do it either... anyone?

electronics are so complex in cars these days... if the stereo place stuffed something minor up when it came to wiring etc. my euro might be a dud for life :( - itd be nearly impossible to find the root of the problem.

i really hope its the Master cylinder... does anyone know if a faulty mastercylinder (by not enganging/disengaging clutch 100% properly) can cause some form of power loss?

Engine oil overfill?

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Originally Posted by h22a accord

not sure how to reset and ecu in a euro but on any other honda car its an easy 10 min job. does anyone know if a euro is any different?

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Someone told me to reset the ECU you just disconnect the battery for 10 or so minutes.

I seriously doubt there is something wrong with your ECU. I have seen such varied performance from the Euro - whether it be oil, air filters, temperature, petrol, etc.

Vacuuming the air filter like Euroaccord13 said is probably the first thing you should try. Don't assume the dealers give it a good check. Mine was really dirty at 20,000kms and it has been in for service from Honda since new so I doubt they even gave it a shake to get the surface debris off.

okay thanks yfin... i'll be sure to check that out (air filter).

i had a chat to nEUROtic and he seems to be experiencing the same problem.

we've kinda arrived at the conclusion that the MC is at fault.

i did a test on a very very slight incline, put it in first, clutch hard against the wall and the car remained stationary (not rolling back) and then started to move foward slgihtly.

the loss of power im talkin about is more than likely from the clutch not being engaged properly (my clutch felt spongey/different - and then i noticed power loss).

In theory i may have been riding the clutch for a good 20,000km :rolleyes: yay

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

the loss of power im talkin about is more than likely from the clutch not being engaged properly (my clutch felt spongey/different - and then i noticed power loss).

In theory i may have been riding the clutch for a good 20,000km :rolleyes: yay

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Chris: I reseted my ECU after installing my aftermarket air filter and Remus exhaust. I was told (with my car, not an EURO) to either discnnect battery for a few min or to unplug the ECU fuse for a few min(this method u wont have to reset ur radio stations)

Have u check ur PM I sent u regarding to this Sunday's IS cruise?
tata
Steven SSML

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Originally Posted by V205

Engine oil overfill?

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that is a very good point!!! or may be too low !

I'm getting my MC replaced tommorrow... so i'll give an update after that... in some ways i hope it is the MC and in some ways i hope its not (talk about clutch wear).

Does anyone know if honda released a new design for the MC? - this will be my third one :rolleyes: (second replacement)

Well, i've got the car back...

I still haven't taken it for a good drive yet, but it seems as though replacing the master cylinder has given me back some missing power.

I spoke to the service manager and he said they took it for a test drive before and after and that the mechanic noticed a similar sensation of power loss to what i did; the car fealt as though the clutch wasn't properly engaged when it was fully released and trying to accelerate.

The clutch feels noticeably weaker than when i first got the car now though and less bitey... probably because ive done 20,000km - the majority of which was on faulty MC's.

Hopefully the car is back to normal for a while now :p

edit:
Forgot to mention that the steering also feels different (back to "normal") - really quite strange but im guessing driving around with a clutch not properly engaged will make the car drive fairly differently ?

The service manager said the clutch wasn't properly engaged? That would mean the clutch is sliding and thus will start to create more wear and tear... Better get it replaced under warranty too :D...

But good to hear it's good now :)

yep he did... basically the master cylinder wasn't opening and closing the diapgram of the clutch properly and it wasnt "locked in" as such.

i'm sure the clutch will be f%#$$d before the 5 year .140,000km runs out.

it already feels weaker :thumbdwn: but probably not bad enough to have replaced yet.

who would have thought the MC would have been such a pain in the ass :rolleyes: haha... but yea glad its improved :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chris_F

yep he did... basically the master cylinder wasn't opening and closing the diapgram of the clutch properly and it wasnt "locked in" as such.

i'm sure the clutch will be f%#$$d before the 5 year .140,000km runs out.

it already feels weaker :thumbdwn: but probably not bad enough to have replaced yet.

who would have thought the MC would have been such a pain in the ass :rolleyes: haha... but yea glad its improved :D

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Cool. Good that we have a hint on why the clutch fails prematurely. Which dealer did you get your car fixed at?

Bought my car from /and had MC replaced at Southside Honda.

Yea my problems wiht the clutch have been documented for well over 6 months now, and i'm on my third master cylinder... if my clutch goes there is no way in hell i'm being held resposible after they acknowledged that fualty MC was causing the clutch to slip in everyday driving...

Are there many 03 and 04 euro owners who never had issues with the clutch MC?

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Originally Posted by V205

Are there many 03 and 04 euro owners who never had issues with the clutch MC?

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not yet at 35k - touch wood.

I finally got to drain out my overfill tonight, about 5mm over max mark drained out about 0.5L+. I noticed that idle rev is about 100rpm lower than usual at times, which caused me to check the oil level. I drained it down to about 2-3mm below the max mark. Idle is now back to normal, car is revving freely again. Took it to redline first time tonight since ownership at about 1600km. Nice kick at 6000-7000 rpm.. :)



(This is using honda FEO bottled oil.)

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Originally Posted by Victor1982

that is a very good point!!! or may be too low !

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by V205

I finally got to drain out my overfill tonight, about 5mm over max mark drained out about 0.5L+. I noticed that idle rev is about 100rpm lower than usual at times, which caused me to check the oil level. I drained it down to about 2-3mm below the max mark. Idle is now back to normal, car is revving freely again. Took it to redline first time tonight since ownership at about 1600km. Nice kick at 6000-7000 rpm.. :)

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Took mine back to get the overfill drained and they were all at lunch. I was on my lunch as well, so i couldn't wait to get it drained. Mine's overfilled by almost 1cm and the guy at the reception desk checked it and said that it's perfectly fine to overfill by that much. It's only a concern when you fill up to there (pointing to about half-way mark of the entire dip stick's length). He said it's only overfilled by about 200ml, which doesn't really agree with what you said.
I'm going to get them to drain it next week and I'll stand there and observe how much oil comes out and give them the shit if more than 200ml comes out.

1cm over the max mark is DEFINITELY more than 200ml. The MAX mark is there for a reason... it's not a suggestion.

Some people will say anything...

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Originally Posted by coladuna

Took mine back to get the overfill drained and they were all at lunch. I was on my lunch as well, so i couldn't wait to get it drained. Mine's overfilled by almost 1cm and the guy at the reception desk checked it and said that it's perfectly fine to overfill by that much. It's only a concern when you fill up to there (pointing to about half-way mark of the entire dip stick's length). He said it's only overfilled by about 200ml, which doesn't really agree with what you said.
I'm going to get them to drain it next week and I'll stand there and observe how much oil comes out and give them the shit if more than 200ml comes out.

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hearing about these overfills is kind of worrying... i know its not the reason now though...

the service manager said the mechanic noticed the faulty MC was causing my clutch to slip slightly and that was the reason for power loss... and when i originally got the new MC i thought the problem had gone... but over the last few days its become just as bad as before, basically the clutch is shot after being driven around half engaged for probably 3000km or so.

I'm contacting my service guy tommorrow to tell him of the problem... ill update the thread with the result when i finally get one.

Ask for DC5R clutch as a replacement if you can. :)

haha, baboo - i wish.

I took the car in today and the foreman came for a drive with me... and i couldn't duplicate the problem enough for him to notice. Basically they won't look into it muhc further unless its a very noticeable problem - so i guess I just gota wait untill its completely f%$*d and the problem is really obvious.

I'd think about buying an aftermarket clutch though but if it is the clutch and it's covered under warranty i may aswell get the new one for free.

try put it in 6th gear at low rev. like 40km/hr

If your rev climbs up but the car has no acceleration, your clutch is most likely fcuked.

haha ok - i'll take it in again once it starts doing that

i know this is an old thread... but i'm still a bit annoyed that i have to wait around untill my power problems get really bad before honda will do anything.


The best way i can describe the feeling... its as if im driving around with the clutch not engaged 100% - its not noticeably slipping (in 6th gear the revs wont rise without the speed rising, but in someway it feels like the power the engine has isnt being allowed to transfer properly.

i was wondering if someone who has worn out or had a faulty cluch before can describe their feeling of it before it starts slipping REALLY noticably (ie your grandma would say "hey your car shouldnt be doing that"). Thanks

So how is the power problem now 8 months later? Did you identify the exact cause? Or is it still problematic?

the take up point of the clutch had just become higher. probably due to the number of master cylinder replacements i've had (currently on my 3rd and luckily no problems). basically the clutch never fealt like it was positively engaging like it did when i first had the car (the friction point being a lot lower initially). I've had to adjust how I drive since and it's not a problem anymore. basically the clutch fealt like it was slipping because i was driving as if the friction point was still in the same place