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Out of curiosity
Ive got a 95 Integra Vtir
Short ram intake, k&n pod filter
4-2-1 Headers
Hi flow cat
2.5 full exhaust
havent had it dyno'd or anthing yet, but what would be the next logical steps to get ~215-230 hp at the wheels?
cams, tb, intake manifold etc? and in what order?
just for those who are wondering. 230HP = 171KW
turbo
Whats the conversion from HP -> KW?
What is 183HP in KW?
1 HP = 0.745699872 kiloWatts
ok and now onto the question :|
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
Unless..... you are ready to spend a huge amount on money to keep it N/A. :?
well being the ALL MOTOR forum .... yes i know turbo/sc would be easier etc, but im asking what would be required to get 215-230 hp at the threads, ALL MOTOR
B20VTEC and crazy cams should do it!
To put you straight - unless you have more money then sense, you wont do it. If you want that sort of power, turbo it, otherwise make your goals more realistic and we can start from there.
Also get your ECU tuned with Hondata :)
ok, let me rephrase, if you were aiming for a mid to low 13 second car all motor, with the mods ive listed and engine management/tuning etc what other engine hardware would i need to be looking at
TODA crate engine...Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman95
Email me if you want one...
wha'ts a TODA crate engine and how much do they cost ? =)
-2ds
A built to order engine, assembled to meet the end user's requirement.Quote:
Originally Posted by 2ds
Obviously this varies from end user to end user...
As such so too does the price...
just a matter of curiosity, but if I had asked for this setup in Toda parts, could u give me an idea of the price i would need to pay?
Stock supplied B18c7 motor
12to1 CR overbored to 86mm forged pistons
Shotpeened, lightened forge rods
Knife edged, lightened and balanced crank (micro polished)
Toda spec c Cams
1m oversized Titanium Valves (3 angle job), springs, retainers
overbored port and polished head and exhaust ports.
bored out TB by 3 mm
short ram intake pipe
length tuned extractors
hi flow cat, and stuiable exhaust (2 1/4 exhaust)
items like thermostat, oil coolers, and other supplementary items to support the above setup.
just an idea of how much id be spending would be nice, and the sort of power gain that u might see from such a setup
I found this link for a 12 second all motor eg hatch
Spec Sheet
pornstar –
I’m not being mean or rude here… This is straight up…
Don’t confuse a perceivably cool “set-up”, with an actual engine requirement.
A requirement infers there is an actual end application.
This means the engine is built to achieve a specific purpose or purposes…
In that, you need to answer this question… What’s it for?
Is it a circuit engine? If so what type? Endurance, sprint, Gymkhana, drift etc…
Is it class or regulation specific? Fuel type?
Perhaps the application is drag racing… Or perhaps it is to be multi purpose…
Other questions that need to be answered include…
Is engine longlivety a priority?
Is winning also a priority?
Not how much does it cost… but… What is your budget?
In any case, I did say email me if you want one…
Ok now that I read this post what you are after is 13sec N/A Honda streetcar.If you give me an idea of what chassis you have somone should be able to answer your question of an engine combo,as Adrain has explained we need more info to help you out.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman95
Regards Dyno Dave
i think it shld read...
turbo is the cheaper option to get more power :D
DC2 1995 VTI-R Honda Integra, is that what you mean by Chassis?Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave
Now that we know what type of base chassis you have what other mods have you done to your car as I do not want to rave on about this and that to find out you already have some of the parts you need.
Regards Dyno Dave
from my original postQuote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave
Ive got a 95 Integra Vtir:
Short ram intake, k&n pod filter
4-2-1 5zigen Headers
Hi flow cat custom 2.5
2.5 full exhaust prof vrs cs cat back
16 inch light weight racing rims
i can tell you that thats well ova 8 grand of mods not including the mota
well my budget is 10k
just go buy a fully built race engine from todda or spoon or ericks racing
http://www.ericksracing.com/engines.htm
6500 USD and its a 2.0L VTEC engine
dyno sheet says 260-270 (US dynos are usally read high so probally more like 240 at wheels)
i dont know how much it would cost to ship but with exchange rates like they are it works out to be 8500(roughly)+shipping costs
$11,000 will achieve what you're after, using your existing engine & components...Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman95
Ie: Rebuild what you've got. - Built here, not a crate engine
That does not include removing & replacing the engine or tuning of any sort.
Included in engine build cost
Camshafts / valve springs / cam gears / oil pump gear / pistons / modified connecting rods / flywheel-clutch / ported head - manifold(VtiR) / throttle / machining costs / all new bearings & gaskets / labour to assemble.
If you decide to cut costs on engine components or devise your own combination etc,
The "will" shall become "may in the 1st sentence.
NB: The components you already have are probably not suitable.
Ie: Intake / header / exhaust.
Extras also required...
Fuel pump / regulator / ECU
why wouldnt the components be suitable? i chose them specifically for a power upgrade down the track, either supercharge or allmotor build...
Would it be realistic to aim for a all motor dc2r below 14secs?Quote:
Originally Posted by DynoDave
Saying that they are probably not suitable doesn’t mean they’re not for sure…
But it is highly likely…
Here’s a quick breakdown…
Short ram intake – not ideal… (I.e.: It’ll work ok, but not great)
A 24” – 28” CAI or proper air box like Mugen etc would be better…
Your K&N pod filter - More than likely good…
4-2-1 5zigen Headers – Ok, but not top performers…
Hi flow cat custom 2.5 – Unknown quantity – maybe ok…
2.5 full exhaust prof vrs cs cat back??? - Unknown quantity – maybe ok…
16-inch lightweight racing rims – Less than ideal for drag racing…
Sorry to disappoint…
You could do high 13sec times with 160hp ATW and a good set of tires.
And with the car stripped out of spare wheel and anything else that is not bolted down .
Regards Dyno Dave
get the engine built by spoom~~ :P
it's a guarentted performance...
cost like 8g's 10g's all up..
but u take the engine out send it off then wait then bring it back then..
WOOAHHHHH.. :P
super power...
anywayz spoon is a very well know company and the engine will last for ages..
cuz the lil jap mech(enginerers) built em..
[[d a n n y]] - You don't get it do you...
Spoon...
It's all just smoke & mirrors...
thanks guys, you've given me a fair bit to think about
a decently modified h22 will get those numbers
why is it all smokes and mirrors? :?Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
Do I have to (for want of a better term) spoon feed you guys everything?Quote:
Originally Posted by DarkCoupe
Think about it...
Spoon race in N1...
This is a heavily regulated series...
They race what they sell & sell what they race...
If you can't figure it out N1 = Stock car racing...
Need I say more...
..so wot are you getting at......???Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
;)
they don't get itQuote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
you have to feed them
i got it.....hence my wink...
no I dont
feed me
Trust me i'm not jumping on the bandwagon or anything... just first hand knowledge..
As Adrian has mentioned... Spoon is indeed designed for N1 racing. If you want drag, go Toda, for endurance go spoon. So what does spoon do, they rebuild a STOCK Type R motor to their specs whoo hooo.. Albiet a few more goodies ( only minor)... ( but does produce 120.8 kw atw with i/h/e+ power FC)
Quite frankly though, from what I have seen on most car forums, 99% is all talk i.e. crap! about 1% actually happens.
So take the advice or leave it.. or should I say listen to first hand knowledge or heresay...
BTW heres the proof....
http://redlineau.com/gallery/albun63/aav
Oh Adrian, props go to TODA products but cmon spoon is still ok...
Jansen, you are wrong, very wrong in your asumptions...Quote:
Originally Posted by jansenrw
TODA build more endurance cuircut engines that drag engines...
Also the fact that they're capable of producing both seems to have eluded you...
Endurance engines, sprint engines & drag engines are all variations on the same theme...
Furthermore...
If you actually knew the difference between an endurance engine & a sprint engine, you'd also change your tune about Spoon...
OT, but the latest ZOOM magazine features the JGTC series and the TODA powered NSXs. Be careful, TODA are the only guys that make JGTC engines, and that series combines enduros with some sprint type races.
OMG...just leave it man...
good on toda if they make good engines all i am trying to say is that send it to spoon factory and you'll get that figure and a engine that might last with all the trahsing it get's
not saying ur parts r crap toda AU ,say u bought TODA parts (which r good) and the installation was shoking...where ever u got it done
than that's waste of money..
spoon rebuilt engines wont b like that cuz they hand make the whole engine and spoon does have a high reputation...so wouldnt pull anything dodgy
i am talking about the quality and efficecy of the motor not sumthing pushes out massive power...and breaks easily or needs to look after everytime u thrash it
http://www.todaracing.com/topics/race_engines_02.html
We all need the b18c version! :thumbsup:
Here's my 2cents in a very broad way... Spoon make good engines which are better than stock due to finer tolerances, better balancing etc, but using mostly OEM parts. You could probably get your own motor built to `Spoon' Spec by getting it blue printed, balanced and upgrading a few parts.
Toda takes the engine to the next level by improving and designing new parts to replace OEM parts. If looked after you won't have any extra issues than running all OEM parts.
[[d a n n y]]
If you're in the market for a crate engine, or wish to send your engine to be overhauled in Japan because you've no faith in the engine builders in this country for whatever reason...
A TODA N1 engine will cost you the same as a Spoon N1 engine...
A modified engine will cost slightly to much more depending on what's done... Reliability isn't an issue... (Unless you opt for a sprint spec engine...)
mpd076-chuck - As I've said before...
If you want one... Just ask.. You can have one if you really want one...
There are plenty of great engine builders in Australia.
Danny, if you really want to know one, and you really want a high output Honda engine, PM me and I can put you onto our engine builder. He is doing our RB31DETs, highest of which makes 1300bhp, and has previously done our 2litre B18. If you really want to do it, keep it local. Its cheaper and just as reliable. And you'll get more power for your money, IMO
hm...i have seen heard bad stuff about tuning places
and so my faith have decreaesed well i am not saying that ur a dodgy bastard..
i am saying parts bought out and having a performance shop fitting stuff in? i dont really trust it
but toda like spoon, mugen or JUN is a respectable brand.....i aint talking about u guyz making ur motor it's for the people who buy parts and get installed by sum dodgy people...
oh yeah and reliablilty is a big issue for me :P
This ain;t dodgy. They build some of the most respected boat engines i the country. We have been using this engine builder for a very long time. He is the man. As for tuning, DynoDave is the man.
Don't just look at the big brand names. A lot of those companies outsource.
There is a lot of good stuff around, and a lot more coming from the US (such as Isky valve springs now made for B series engines, and JE pistons). Seriously, I would not be buying a crate engine. I personally do not believe they are any better. I have had involvement with a Jun crate engine, and it wasn;t so flash. The spoon engine was replacing it, until he gave up and sent it to an engine builder. I can not recomened the engine builder enough.
matt i aint talking about ut engine builder...
i am talking to toda AU
?? Yes...Quote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y
You were saying?
here mate that i was directing at you about my opinion about aussie tunersQuote:
Originally Posted by [[d a n n y
some just wanna take your money...
That's life isn't it?
Some people are clueless... Others are not...
It's up to you to decide who's who in the zoo...
Fact is there are places in Australia that are more than capable of strapping together excellent engines... The other side of that is that there are others out there who aught never touch engines...
Various consumer protection agencies exist for this exact reason…
If you’ve been shonked & you’ve got a case…
The MVRAC (NSW) is there to help you out…
If you still can’t trust anyone here and simply must outsource the engine build to Japan… Good for you…
If you're not interested in a reliable alternative to your beloved Spoon engine…
So be it... I can't make you change your mind...
The offer is there if you or others want it...
In any case, here are a few tips to help you get by...
The only thing the cheapest guy in the industry really knows...
Is what his time is actually worth...
Combination is everything but nothing without good tuning...
Cleanliness is next to godliness... How clean is your favourite workshop?
Function should always come before form; strangely form comes with function...
There are no tuning secrets, only bad memories...
Common sense isn't really common at all...
*scribbles down in notepad...*.... Wise words. :nod:
It's all true
Adrian, can i ask if the red ITR that u built with the motec turbo system was done by u when u were toda au or as hypertune?
That was way back when, in early 2000...
So yeah, I was still half of Hypertune at that stage...
That was when I was working with Mark...
Strange question... Why do you ask?
id better take it to Pm :)
NP... PM recieved & sent...
Note: Finally in regards to the topic 215 whp....
My friend and I are about to unleash a monster on Australian roads...
Basic info::::
1) Civic
2) 84.5mm Custom block
3) Toda/Jun
Will release more info in about 2 months...
Or alt see you at the drag strip
I'm going to start with a disclaimer : I mean no offense by this post.
I find today that some more enthusiastic car lovers tend to look to power over other characteristics which make a car great...
I've skimmed this thread a couple of times and simply said (and please refer back to the disclaimer) if you're not sure what it takes to build a 230 HP all motor engine, then i'm quite sure that 230 HP would be lost on you... there are a lot of experts on this forum who do this sort of tuning on a day to day basis and biggie up to you guys cos you make cars and driving and dyno days fun for every one of us... but i say leave this sort of tuning AND cars to the experts... the last thing anyone needs is another person wrapping their car around a pole...
Having said by all means that prove me wrong... i'm all for keeping Razz Tech and Adrian (Toda-Au) in a job so they can keep helping us LOL
man i wrote a half page reply to this post...and lost it, so let me summarise.Quote:
Originally Posted by type one
screw the disclaimer.
1. There are some of us that want to LEARN what is going in their car and how it functions as a system as opposed to laying down 20k and picking up a fully modified car 2 months later.
2. Just because we dont work with cars everyday, or in the industry DOES NOT mean that 230 hp would be lost on "US" (obviously the dumbass consumer). 230hp is reasonably impressive, especially allmotor for a street driven car,but in this day and age of forced induction it hardly gets a second look. So if we noobs can't appriciate 230hp well the scene has **** all to look forward to.
3. Yes quite a few of use realise that its not just about horsepower.. yes depending on your type of driving, gearing, power band, suspension setup, tyres, rim size, weight, if this was a post just for HP I would have entitled it, "How do I make 400HP allmtr and get it to work with mY fUllY s|cK ne0nS and wIcKeD m4d 3rD geAr vTaCK y0!"
4. This is a forum (hopefully) where people who are not "experts" can come and ask for advice and information to help them make informed decisions and not just take the word of someone who is trying to sell them products and a service anyway.
5. And wtf does modifying have to do with wrapping your car around a pole, common sense and acting like an asshat will wrap you around a pole, keep it on the track and you dont have poles to worry about.
/end disclaimer
com on stop the negativity please... back to the topic less personal issues???
No offence man...but 230whp is more than reasonably impressive for a NA 4 cylinder..... It would be too much power for the street in a FF setup.Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman95
1.) Learning is one thing, but a mechanics course is one hell of another thing. Learning to install a CAI is good, but how do you learn on a FORUM how to tune a 230HP beast?? I'm no mech expert so i am going to do a course... maybe you should do the same thing?? then ask some informed questions so you can learn at a faster rate...
2.) 230HP is not reasonably impressive, it is BLOODY impressive... to get 230HP out of an all N/A motor is BLOODY impressive... and MOST of us drive Honda's for N/A reality not turbo fantasy... so i am glad you're not thinking of jumping on the turbo bandwagon... that being said most of 'US' i think would appreciate a 230-250HP all motor beast.
3.) see answer to 2.
4.) See answer to 1.
5.) Simple logic would explain the likelihood of wrapping your car around a pole is proportionately related to the amount of power is in your hands... I doubt, but please tell me if i am incorrect that an integra with I/H/E producing possibly 108kw/atfw would lead a fully licensed driver to get into too much trouble, especially since you seem to be so level headed. Forgive me for caring about keeping good Honda's on the road and not in the wrecker (the wrecker is for Nissan and Toyota). BUT on the other hand 170kw/atfw... doesn't matter if you're on a track, or the road, will still get any driver into trouble...
6.) Good luck on your 230HP all motor beast... let us know when u have completed it, it will surely turn my head :)
I understand that, but (i have no personal experience with 200 whp ff's) but reading up on and speaking to people in the states with modified hondas, tuned properly 230 is extremely streetable.Quote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
But that wasnt the point of that statement, 230 is very impressive allmotor for the bseries, BUT what im saying is that whats out there on the roads these days stock and modified, im sure most people have driven v8's and such, and although the weight to power is different etc etc (not taking into account fwd, rwd, NA or FI whatever) 230 hp is nothing, all im talking about is the number.
obviously not everyone can learn to TUNE a car, or swap a motor, the forums are here to help make informed decisions not ****ing tell us we cant appriciate shit cause we cant do it all ourselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by type one
original post
Out of curiosity
Ive got a 95 Integra Vtir
Short ram intake, k&n pod filter
4-2-1 Headers
Hi flow cat
2.5 full exhaust
havent had it dyno'd or anthing yet, but what would be the next logical steps to get ~215-230 hp at the wheels?
cams, tb, intake manifold etc? and in what order?
its a general, question, i wanted to get some GENERAL information for an obviously too high a horsepower goal. It would help me to get some direction to see what sort of budget i would need, IF it is viable for what i want, read up learn what the various mods would do before commiting to something and if u see it says ~ (that means approximately 215-230) i dont know why ur hung up on the upper numbers.
and regarding the pole thing that is the most ****ed up reasoning i have ever heard, (its for nissans and toyotas) if you cared so much, it would be for your fellow enthusiasts, and how would you get into trouble on the roads if you followed the rules? m4d streEt rAciNg Y0?!
and that proportional power thing, theres enough v8's and hi-po imports on the road to prove ur statement wrong there pal.
and regarding your last statement, thanks champ, but you can keep your smarmy attitude and comments. If you're not here to help with the topic, post elsewhere.
:roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman95
What can i say?
Seven, One-hundred and seventy three point one-five-nine, two thousand-nine hundred and eighty three.
Those numbers are just as relevant.
Sorry mate, you are lost.
why is he lost? he just asked what it woudl take to make a certain power?
cummon man - work with me here. Numbers dont mean anything. I dont have to paraphrase everything that has been said. Read it yourself and then post. not vice versa.
YES ok, 230 hp is very impressive output from a 4cyl NA engineQuote:
Originally Posted by VTEC16
but 230 compared to other cars is not, YES i know we're not talking about other cars, YES i realise we are on a Honda board.
The original question still stands, what do you need to make approx 215-230 hp, NA witha b-series, dont worry about money, dont worry about anything else (thats for me to worry about) 215-230 NA from a B-series, i dont want to hear that im dreaming or go turbo or i dont know shit cause i cant do it myself, i also dont want to hear that i cant appriciate it cause im a noob, its a straight forward GENERAL query.
230 hp as a power output...from the engine engine...not 230 hp in a ff car with stripped interior or 230 hp in a rwd 2500kg car or 230hp from a turbo car..just 230hp..
That was all i was asking, not opinions on what i should do instead, or scarcastic comments about the likelyhood of me doing it.
Thanks
numbers dont mean anything? erm im lost.... in this case it means everything...thats the question he is asking.
Its like say he knows what kerb weight he is driving daily, so he wants a certain power figure, like exact. why wouldnt it mean anything? just because he doesnt need to hear what u have to say about a cars overall doesnt mean what he wants to know is irrelevant
thanks manQuote:
Originally Posted by pornstar
please deposit the money into my account ;)
and regarding the pole thing that is the most ****ed up reasoning i have ever heard, (its for nissans and toyotas) if you cared so much, it would be for your fellow enthusiasts, and how would you get into trouble on the roads if you followed the rules? m4d streEt rAciNg Y0?!
and that proportional power thing, theres enough v8's and hi-po imports on the road to prove ur statement wrong there pal.
The above statement proves to me that you really don't know what you're talking about... V8 running on average 180KW/atrw is 600Kg heavier than your Integra with 230Hp or 171KW/atfw
street racing?? yeah i like a good run on a cold night... you either think i am stupid or naive to think that you have never driven your car over the speed limit on Aust roads... ?? I am lost...
Benchmark the comment and put it into perspective... if you read it carefully im not having a go at you at all... don't fly off the handle and make wild assumptions about what you may think i am thinking...
smarmy?? good word... but if you build it then let me know... love to see it... (no sarcasm at all).
read the other posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by type one
can't be bothered... sorry if i offended you... i'm over it...
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by type one
im out.