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Hey guys i am currently building up my EG sedan at the moment and i will starting to smooth the engine bay. Now as this car won't be a daily driver i want to remove all the powersteering components to tidy up my engine bay. My question is has anyone had experience with this, in terms of what happens at the steering rack. Can i just plug up where the powersteering lines go into the steering rack or do i have to source a different (non power steer) rack. Any help would be appreciated.
can anyone help or do i have to work it out?
i'm quite sure.. all the civic have power steering.
now what i've learnt is that if you don't have fluid going to your rack like it's designed to be.. it will ruin your power steering gear/rack in a very short period of time. :thumbdwn:
so my advice is keep it. and make it look nice one way or another.
Why? and what would you hope to achieve?Quote:
Originally Posted by showpony
i am in the process of removing power steering.
first of all, you are right in that it will damage the rack over time, but i have heard many mixed opinions about this. i have managed to track down a manual steering rack which can be used, however doesnt have the same steering ratio and tends to have alot of slack through the steering wheel. the guys in the usa modify there power steering rack by removing the lines etc, and looping in inlet and outlet to the pump, with some sort of a breather attached. this will extend the racks life a little more simply because you are allowing built up pressure when you turn to be realeased out of the breather. some also add a resovoir so you can fill up power steering fluid, just as a lubricant. some of there racks have lasted up to 5 years, and this is for race/autocross purpose. doesnt sound like you'll be putting you car through too much strain.
and by the way, ignore people who tell you the rack will die in a short amount time. i know people who have disabled it, raced the **** off it for over a year now, and doesnt even hear a knock from it
The pre-1993 update EG Breeze models came with a non-power steering rack (I think power steering was an option on these models and became standard after the update) so a swap could be done with one of these without too much hassle or too great a cost. For the best reliability and the tidiest appearance (ie: no steering components in the engine bay at all) this would be your best option in my opinion.
Yonas (aka EG5) has a non power rack in his EG5 Si and also in JDM Yard's "EGK20A" Civic so your best bet would be to PM him if you have some questions as he actually has some first hand experience with this type of mod.
Didnt all local EG's come with power steering ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Captiva_Blue
BTW Yonas currently has a PS rack in his car , he has simply re-routed the inlet/return piping from the pump/cooler , and removed them.
In EGK20A i was told an import non-ps rack was used.
that's what i thought as well. :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
and i'm still quite sure of it
yup ~ and you work at honda :wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by destrukshn
Anyway , regardless there seems to be TWO ways to disable PS properly - either install a imported non-ps rack , or run a plumb-back pipe and some kind of resevior ro the PS rack. Chck on www.honda-tech.com , there is a few kits on there and DIY's etc.
the plum back method is very easy to do. it shouldnt cost you more then $50 to do. it has a much better steering ratio then a non-power steering rack
the ratio isnt changed at all ~ all that is change is the removal of power assistance , and that changes the driver feedback and effort needed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steer^Gimic
Bit of a dog while parking , but once you get going the steering on a non-PS actually feels more responsive compared to a normal PS system
yeh you are right but you misunderstood me. i was comparing an oem manual rack to an oem p/s rack in relation to ratio's.
but yeh your right, it feels great.
the resovoir system is just a 'drip-feed' to keep the rack lubricated
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=184202&page=1
have a read :)
I get ya now ~ if thats what you meant , then im sure a non-PS rack has a better "feeling" and actual ratio in comparison to a PS assisted rack/disabled PS rack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Steer^Gimic
Good link too -
Lets see some aussie boys do this DIY :P
Well if you like turning the wheel more times than you can ever imagine then by all means run a manual rack :DQuote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
As for better feel; I am under the impression that they will feel exactally the same, since the dampening effect of power steering only comes from fluid.
Having said that, It would be virtually impossible to ever test this, since you would need two identical racks, one power assisted and one manual, which, I doubt you could find in any car with similar ratios.
Back on topic, I have removed power steering entirely from my DA Integra.
All lines were cut a few centimetres from the input into the rack, and using the stock rubber lines and clamps and tee's, I managed to loop them all around and even fit a breather in there (made of an off-cut solid p/s-fluid line which extends up into the engine bay). I also removed all the valves and springs and studs from the valve body in the rack. I did this using an electro-magnet I made out of a screw driver :thumbsup:
I am running the rack dry of power steering fluid. The rack is not lubricated by power steering fluid. This has been covered a million times on honda-tech but I thought i'd re-iterate. The rack and pinion itself has plenty of grease in there just like a manual rack, to keep it lubed.
The piston inside the powersteering 'thing' on the rack will still wear though; I plan to completely remove all powersteering related items from the rack the day it starts to make noise or start to feel bad.
As for steering feel, it is simply amazing compared to power. You feel everything vs the stock feel of nothing. Running some soft compound tyres, steering feel is still pretty heavy from a stop, and when moving it is heavier than stock, but, I am a 60kg skinny bastard with no muscles at all and easily manage to navigate parking lots and don't have any problem driving around anywhere. U-turns are not the easiest, but if I can do it so can you ;)
The only bad thing about removing power steering in my eyes is actually the weigh loss believe it or not, simply because it is only on ONE side. Since I also have air-con removed, I am missing around 20kg of weight on the passenger side, mix this with the driver being on the opposite side and you will find the passenger side riding higher. I am still trying to figure out ways to combat this.
Ok and the other bad thing is that without an LSD, torque steer is even worse than with power steering. No longer do you have a big pump helping you keep the wheels straight, it's all up to your arms.
I don't really have a problem with it though, just don't floor it unless you are in a straight line, which is a rule you should be following anyway without an LSD :D
I can get pics up if you guys want them but it is pretty nasty 'cos I just used stock parts hacked up :)
Total cost: $0
Total time: About half an hour since the car was allready on jackstands with no engine in the car
Total Satisfaction: 9/10 . Would be the ultimate mod if P/S weighed nothing to being with.
good work string.
post up pics for sure, i am trying to find barb fittings to loop with, but you'v used the standard p/s line, cut short and kinda used as a barb??
post pics for sure.
nice one.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=462824
heres another link this is what ill be attempting in my EG. maybe more expensive but not alot and looks clean.
im using and eg rack which came with the cross member
feels awesome!
sounds like some good fun. Just added it to my to do list :D
can someone explain how non-PS could possibly be better than having PS???
apart from the weight loss etc.. why would you throw it away? It makes driving easier.
I wanna know whats so great about not having PS?
atm i wanna keep it, but with some advice maybe i will remove it..
AFAIK paul
there is a large reduction in weight, and power steering is not really required on track, as you are going so fast the momentum of the car does not need much force to change its direction
Paul,Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul1985
The power steering pump is belt driven by the motor. Thus by removing the power steering you are reducing the amount parasitic drag on the engine. In laymens terms, the power that usually would be wasted trying to spin the pump around is diverted to the drivetrain.
- KB
nice info, definately worth considering :D
the car will only be a weekend driver with occasional track use, so it wont affect me greatly.
Do you guys think its more fun to drive without it because u can feel all the bumps etc??
I want to feel like im a racecar driver when driving my car :D
lol
^^
that souhds alot better that what ive been told in the past :thumbsup:
Hey this thread still going. Just to let anyone know, it is fairly simple to do this. Just loop the in and out lines on the steering rack with a bit of hose or run a gravity feed catch can with some power steering fluid so the rack does not run out of fluid and wear out. I stole this info from Yonas and BADHBT from the set ups in their cars lol.
picsordeath
Quote:
Originally Posted by KB
damn straight, did you put a breather onto it ???
My car doesn't even have a steering rack in it at the moment lol, but this is a pick of the set up BADHBT has. Just a catch can mounted on the firewall and gravity fed into the steering rack (next to fuel pressure regulator in the pic).
http://www.jdmyard.com/jdmyard_2006/...t/IMG_7243.JPG
This is a very nice car by the way :) . For more pics visit the link in my sig.