Anyone raced one before? how would a stock civic vti-r go against 141 kw corolla ?
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Anyone raced one before? how would a stock civic vti-r go against 141 kw corolla ?
From what iv heard its closer than you would think.....but id still but my money on the toy-boat-a (shudder)
My money's on the VTi-R, but it'd be a close one - a driver's race.
Yes, the Sportivo has some 141kW compared to the VTi-R's 118kW, but the Sportivo is quite a pork for it's size (over 1200kg the last time I read).
I'm just guessing here so it'd be great to hear from someone that has actually raced one!
SiR.
i got one by a nose??
Details please!! :D
I gave one a whooping. If you try and drag one, try and catch the driver off guard. they have no torque, so exploit that.
If ya going to do it off the lights, you really want to have a perfect launch. They have a lot of top end, but nothing down low. With the civic, I recomend you really try to get the best launch possible, or it will eat you alive.
I destroyed one off the lights. The kid driving it was pissed. They don't handle all that great either.
They are much the same as a celica, but the celicas are much lighter, and quite difficult to drag off. I don't think a civic vtir wouldhave a lot of luck with a celica
I would have been the first person in Australia to try and drag one off last year. Before they were even released, in my old car (rover 416i) I had one at the lights. Thinking is was as stupid as a Camry Sportivo (no extra power), I revved it up. And got a nasty suprise. Next set of lights I ask what it is, and they says "nothing, just a standard corolla". After a few hours trying to find out what it was on the internet, I felt a whole lot better.
I bought my car around making sure I could drag of 'rolla sportivos. I figure they are going to be very popular, and take he stickers off, a bit of a sleeper
i had it handed to me by a Rallyart Magna last year.
that sucked !
matt i doubt u'll b the first
Geez some strong claims.
But you'd have to take off the stickers as well as the factory kit to make it look stock.
Well, it was well before they were released. It was at Wooloware, which is where the toyota head office is in Sydney. If anyone knows the road, it is which a famous drag strip. I noticed the bodykit, but all corollas have that bodykit as a factory option... It had Victorian number plates, no dealer sticker. I went home to find out they were being released 6 weeks later. I contemplated buying one, but they are still a corolla. Not so great on the inside
As for ralliart magnas, forget it. I attempte to drag one last week, but damn, they have some serious go.
i have got one of the hot4s mags here it claims that corolla sportive does 0 -400m in 16.1 secs?? what does stock civic do down the qtr?
I dont mind the look of the new Ralliart Magnas.... they have loads of torque
yeh considering the rolla sportivo has a larger engine capactiy, although yes it is heavier.... even drivers, i think the rolla mite get out front...
mid to high 15's? i thinkQuote:
Originally Posted by sui
when the new clutch goes in the plow, i will be on the prowl for a rolla sportivo...
then i get back to ya :D
McChook,Quote:
Originally Posted by McChook
dont you have a Prelude VTi-R?
thats the same power as a corolla sportivo, and a truckload more torque!
Yep, exactly.. and they weigh about the same...
So that would mean a GSi could beat one too? hehehehe j/ks
GRRRRRRQuote:
Originally Posted by wynode
maybe
16.2 from the VTiR stock
is that what you time is or what it says on the paper?Quote:
Originally Posted by Civic Type R
I know a ITR can kick a rolla arse 8)
Vti-R I think is a match.
I had a go in the rolla before, gearing is really tall. drops out of the VVT point everytime u change gear. :?
and I can't feel the VVT coming in at all :|
both.Quote:
Originally Posted by sui
I ran a 1/4 test last year of a stock VTir hatch.
every run was 16.22 - 16.27 on full street trim
15.6 for me ;)
bastard.
i'd give them a squirt..
:D
see if they eat me alive P~~
Hehehe.. Honda power guys..
no need to be scared of VTEC imo's
muahahahaha
Ken
stock vtir 1/4 mile around mid to high 15s... :D
Once i install my new clutch and flywheel i think i will be in the high 14s
Is this after or before you got that new intake?Quote:
Originally Posted by genesis
i'd put my money on the corolla ;)
I've got a 2003 Corolla Sportivo. Completely stock.
I'll take on a stock Civic Coupe VTi-R and prelude anyday.
My friend has a VTi-R coupe with exhaust+hanny's treatment.
all i can say is....it's not a hard beat.
My money is also on the 'Rolla, if the same conditions were had same driver ability etc, the corolla would win.
it's almost like comparing a vtir civic to a type r integra, they both have around the same power and weight so my $ is on the rolla
ive raced a few celicas and corollas, they are worthy of taking my grandma shopping, but then again, im not stock :)
my sis raced a sportivo corolla in my civic ;) and we won - both with two passengers (and yes the rolla driver was giving it too), three times along one road, kimbis civic=II corolla=0 red light at the last second=I. heheh.
I was actually at the Toyota dealers yesterday looking for an MR2 and I noticed the Corolla sportivo. The 141kw of power took my breath away and so I asked about the performance............0-100km. The dealer quoted, according to the specs it did it in 8.8secs........i was dissappointed.
I've read reviews on the civic vtir coupe and they've quoted 7.8secs 0-100km.
I guess I've just got to look for a 'rolla and proove those figures........hehehe.........how about it Sport?!
Hahaha this guy looks like he signed up just for this thread lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
well you are comparing a car which has "more power".... but i do think that the vtir has a chance :D
Guys, if you really want to beat people off the start. Buy a 2nd hand, cheap Skyline GT-R.
I have one... it's not a great daily driver as it guzzles up a lot of fuel... but damn it's fast. I just bought a Civic for a daily driver but when I go to sleep I dream in Skyline. Never did like the idea of turbo cars until I bought it. Don't diss one until you have driven one. It's a beast in the true sense of the word. I overtook 2 Porsches (911 + Boxter) and an M3 all at the same time on the straight at Eastern Creek early this month and hit 220km/hr before the left sweeper at the end of the straight and that was "taking it easy".
:) Turbo's are cheating? Well then cheating's good! Especially when you have a twin turbo RB26! :)
I know this is the civic section, but if any foo with a Sportivo or celica wants to "show me what they got", any modification, they are more than welcome to let me know.....
hahahahaha go get em sport ;) do us all proud :DQuote:
Originally Posted by McChook
i'm stock, so to make it fair, you should be stock to.
all i'm saying is...keep an open mind with these things.
imagine all the mods done to a civic vti-r are also done to the sportivo.
who'd win?
I will admit, a stock sportivo will get beatin by a stock type r....only by a bit.
No use having a skyline GTR and racing a non-turbo supra or honda s2000. it's just not a ffair comparison.
Gotta keep it realistic. Why should i race a worked vti-r when my car isn't worked either? shouldn't both cars be worked to make it fair?
McChook: what's done to your prelude?
you obviously havent raced an ITR, i do recommend you try it, then tell me how you only lost by a bit :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
had a cruise with a fair few DC5 and a few DC2's down the old pacific highway.
then we pulled over and made sure the road was clear.
then we did quite a few runs down the highway. almost topping out 4th gear in both cars.
there was a stock dc5 and a stock sportivo. the sportivo lost, but not by much.
the front of the sportivo was at the rear of the dc5.
i should have video taped it, but for legal purposes...i didn't.
then...we had another sportivo there..but with a unichip. beat the dc5. just.
i'm not saying the dc5 and civic coupe vti-r is slow. all i'm saying is that, you gotta give some respect to other cars out there.
look at the new 206 GTI 180. That's a quick car! 0-100 mid - high 7's. Stock!
Honda's are great cars, don't get me wrong, but there are other cars out there too, and i know you guys don't want to admit it, but can beat honda's too. (eg: sportivo stock vs vti-r stock). don't go stupid with saying that a worked dc5 will absolutely smash a sportivo (well, are they both worked? or is the sportivo stock? details like this matter.)
But a DC5 is only 118kw !! HAHA
hahaha if u live in melbourne man i'll take u on neday... an di drive a STOCK ek4... come see me before i put in the bolt ons i bought...
BUt, not saying i'll win man, just wanna see...
what i meant was....the new Integra Type-R.
Sorry, don't know all the honda models.
isn't the DC2 the old integra and the dc5 the new integra?
Yea they are...But you mean the DC5R :)
Anyways I dunno...I was in the same situation as you with a friend's sportivo (I was just behind him)...and if you know what car I have, you would be thinking wtf considering the car is nearly twice the power of mine...LOL....my friend also said he was giving it as well!! So I'm not sure...maybe he was bullshitting me or not.
ah! the DC5R. ah, i get it.
so, the DC5 is the non type-r, right?
my friend has a vti-r coupe (nice car!) and we always drag when we can. every time we've raced, i've won.
Yea DC5 is non type-r :)
Cool...Civic vti-r is somewhat 30 more kilowatts then I do...hahah
edit: We did a rolling run...He was 3/4 of his car in front of all the way
i've sat in the corrolla sportivo... apparently its got few things againstit
1.weight, pretyt heavy i heard, neone wanna confirm|
2. VVTI-L, only comes in 6000rpm + and only lasts for 2000 rpm i think... compare htis to a b16a, vtec at 5500 all the way to 8500, got a bit more rev range in the wild cam...
3. gearing, apparently every gear change puts u way below the shift point..
i dunno man i know its a nice car, the interior is damn sexy btw... but i really like to run one
Yea B16A, all the way to 8500?? But does it make power all the way? Can you confirm??
I'm not sure about the other points since I haven't driven or sat in a Sportivo before.
Mugen exhaust, Type S intake, Type S cams, AEM cam gears... few other little things....Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
Having said all this, what do you mean by fair? To be 'fair', a Sportivo shouldn't even be taking on a Civic VTi-R. Why? The sportivo is a 1.8, the VTi-R a 1.6. Given the extra 200cc's, that ain't 'fair' to the Civic.
By no means am I dissing the Sportivo, but I just can't see a DC2R beating it by just a 'bit' :?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sportivo VVTL-i
Peak power @ 7600rpm, redline @ 7900rpm. I've never hit 8500rpm though cos I wouldn't want to feel the rev-limiter kicking in - not a nice feeling :DQuote:
Originally Posted by mo
Yea...so if Peak power is made at 7,600rpm, why would you want to rev past that point?
Ghost, The EK4 has a rev limit of 8400rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by **Ghost**
I know this is a honda forum and all, but over the quarter mile, I would say there is probably no chance that a stock civic VTi-R can be faster than a stock corolla sportivo with 140kw from the factory.
0-60, then the civic *might* be faster, but still unlikely.
and i'm talking about cars with same mileage, same maintenance schedule and same state of tune and same driver.
the thing is, we are talking about two cars with similar weight, except one has more torque, 20+ more kilowatts and one extra gear from the factory.
Chris :)
Hi Guys,
Sportivo VVTL-i sent me the link to this thread to have a read very interesting. Im the guy with the chipped sportivo that beat the new integra type r. I have a few friends with honda's and we all c the pro's and con's of our cars. From our own personal testing when i was standard i ran my mates vtir civic. He had exhaust and filter. I won on each run 1st gear pretty even after that though the corolla just opens it up. Ran the new type-r when i was stock and so was it. Man thats 1 quick car beat me each time except for once wen he buggered the start. @ the end of 3rd each time he was ahead though and no way i was going to pull him in. Now after my chip ran another new integra type-r. Even though i absolutly buggered the start and slipped to have my bonnet at his rear wheel NOT ONLY DID I PULL HIM BACK IN BUT I PASSED HIM @ END OF FORTH GEAR. :D :D Have contented again several times with a new type-r and wen i get my starts down pat im just wasting my petrol as i now know im quicker and can get several lengths on 1. Does this mean either car is better than the other NO. All it means is MY car is quicker than some of the type-r's on the road. Nothing else. Have had my ass handed to me by an s2000 :( but have also handed an s2000 his ass to him :D . By the way same s2000 consecutive lights + after i had the chip. Let just say he was surprised how good the car went and gave me a congrats as he's never seen a rolla go so well and the fact i beat him he was astounded, the KEY THING he was a good sport about it and gave credit where credit was due. Your not gona win them all. Something people keep forgetting a race is of 2 things the car and the driver without both the race is over before it begins. Anyway guys enjoy your cars and have fun. I love driving my friends honda's n they the sportivo.
well it is fair cos both cars are in the same class, and if the VTi-R were for sale today, then they would be competing against each other for the same market. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR
Sportivo = 1224kgQuote:
Originally Posted by Kit
VTi-R (coupe) = 1114kg
Similar weight?!?!
OK..... :?
Hi guys,
toyota has a few mis-truths in the public today about the sportivo..why ?? No idea
1) the weight of the car is closer to 1180...this has been put to the test by a few sportivo owners. The cars had a full load i.e. petrol, spare in da boot etc. So how toyota got 1224 i have no idea.
2) claim of a 0-100 time of 8.4. Top gear in england achieve 7.8, a danish magazine achieved a 7.7 and a greek magazine achieve a 7.3. Had some people take a sportivo to a test track and depending on shifting style record different times. With flat shifting i.e. foot on the gas at all times 3 times were recorded 6.9, 7.1, 7.2. Normal shifting the times were 7.4, 7.55 and 7.6.
Again no idea why the mis-conceptions but it has created a lot of controversy.
meh who cares, id never buy a corolla, but thats just me.
and if u won against a civic thats cool, and if u didnt thats cool. all is good, but tis even better if its a honda ;)
There is a point in revving past the peak torque/power point... i think... in my understanding (whihc is limited as i admit), the torque curve doesnt fall down a cliff -like tangent after 7600... it drops down slowly, which is i think a better "rev range"than shifting straight away to the next gear to wait for vtec...
but...i could be wrong
I had a quick look at the toyota website... although I couldnt find the sportivo, the corolla 4 door ultima hatch has a kerb weight of 1105-1175. I just assumed the sportivo would be similar.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiR
the other thing is, magazine 0-100kmh tests are about as accurate and consistant as Joe Blow timing it with his casio wristwatch on the street.
The cars that journo's get to perform their tests on can vary from brand spanking new to thrashed to the sh!thole condition.
Add to that certain magazines run their cars with half a tank, some with 2 people and a full tank, some use flatchanges (which no one ever does anyway) and some don't launch properly, so comparing 0-100kmh times between different cars is a very unreliable comparison.
i second that opinion... just cos some fatty works for motor or wheels or whatever doesnt mean he drives fast... and even if he does he might not thrash it cos the manufacturer lent the car to him
Ghost, i just pulled out my dyno chart of my EK4. the torque band is pretty much flat after 6000rpm, infact the torque curve is pretty much flat all the way through the rev range, with it peaking close to 8000rpm.Quote:
Originally Posted by **Ghost**
there is an argument for shifting past peak power rpm. (remember, once you past peak power and the power drops off, you are actually accelerating slower), and its done only if acceleration after the peak power would be faster than shifting up into the next gear.
but tests have shown that it is faster to shift at redline in the EK4 rather than to hang on until the revlimiter. Also, if you shift at redline on the EK4, the next gear will always be in the Vtec range, its only in the DC2 integra VTi-Rs that have a problem with dropping out of vtec range from the first to second gear shift.
Chris
would I be able to convince u to send me a copy of that dyno sheet? i've actually been looking for one!!! plssssssssssssssssssss
yeah, pm me with your email address. i'll see if i can scan it or take a picture of it with my digital camera. The car wasnt standard at the time tho.
hey! interestin stuff, may i ask what forums u corolla boys are from?? would be interesting just to read about the opposition ;0
Hi Xoom....Quote:
Originally Posted by xoom
Just wondering what type of chip you installed into your corolla and also what other mods u have done to your car at that time?
Good job beating the ITR. :D
have u ever taken your car down to the strip for a real life time? :?:
You have your own misconceptionQuote:
Originally Posted by xoom
The aussie spec Sportivo is totally different to any other version in the world.
Ask Rick Bates
hmmm funny 1 that 1. Well considering that these are all produced from the 1 factory i.e. south africa ..with from what ive been told the occasional 1 produced from japan... how do i know this ??? well ive had lengthy conversations with the people at toyota, their management, tech staff, performance houses i find it hard that the OS ones are different but anyway playing with your idea that they are different. Explain 2 me how ? other than appearance they all share the 2ZZ engine, the same gear box, ratio's etc etc etc so tell me how r they different....oh wait they have a space saver n we have a full mag as a spare, their head lights appear to be different than ours, the front skirt is slightly different than our own, yes the europeans do get a chance to get their hands on a 3 door as opposed to our 5 door but as yet all confirmations/communication that ive had with people in europe state that even the 3 doors weight is the same as the 5 door....but hmmm u must be right with that for sure they must perform better than ours.... PLEASE...by now u must realise i am being sarcastic. If you havent noticed ...do some research every single toyota website around the world claims an 8.4 0-100 time for the sportivo or t-sport or RunX no matter what varient. Have spoken with dealers in south africa directly as well to confirm other things about the car .... So you can make your claim or have your own opinions BUT how about u consider the facts first. Oh did i let it slip to early that there is a concept called the "world vehicles" in toyota's stream of work which involves a 4x4 turbo corolla which involves several toyota cars world wide to be exactly the same...manufactorers are learning the hard way that they can just tea up consumers with dodgy after market products...HONDA is a perfect example explain to me what the ITR in japan is all about like 167kw, more torque etc but yet our ITR is only the equivilant of a lower model in the US whats going on there ????? So now u tell me who's cars overseas perform differently the example i just gave u is pretty obvious so i hope u cant miss it...hmmm must be y honda is ending its type-r brand ????
Now if ur gona take a dig at someone b prepared to have someone take a dig at u. PPL can post what ever u want on a forum but if ur full of crap well then ur only having urself on
Xenon: i have a unichip installed and breathing mods. How done a few other touch ups since then but lets not tell no 1 ;-)
xoom you beat a dc5r? i find that pretty hard to believe, dc5r bad driver? chip and intake only?? what sort of gains did you achieve?
i had a stock dc2r, i have also driven the corolla sportivo and not being biased or anything they did not even come close to being the same. the dc2r wouldve owned the sportivo,in a straight lined and even more on twisty's, and i dont mean only by a little bit. if i still had my itr i wouldnt mind being educated. only thing i can think of is your car must've had some impressive gains from intake and chip.
*note* im commenting on the itr vs sportivo, i have no first hand experience with ek4 so il leave that to you b16 boy's.
im not dissing the sportivo, i almost bought one, defineately well priced for a 14xkw? car, but no way a type r eater, or can be compared to a type r.
omg xoom, english uses something called PARAGRAPHS. im not going to even bother reading that shit unless its done ina readable manner, we are honda ppl, intelligent not toyota ppl so please, some punctuation.
Hahah this thread is just getting started.
lol mo. yeah i can say i got owned by a couple of sportivos. they're pretty fast. more than what i expected anyway. but im having trouble believing they could match it wit the new itr. i'd have to see it to believe it. :shock: :evil:
Well in actual fact...I will not believe that a sportivo can beat any ITR through TLGPs...
If it was at a drag strip...both cars driven with full interior/spare wheel/full tank of petrol etc etc...same driver down the quarter then I'd believe it if the sportivo beat the ITR there
Other than that I think this thread is going absolutely no where
Ok lets get some punctuation into the post.
Yes SoundStreamer that is correct i beat an ITR. Coming from behind mind you. And if you read my post i have also sized up an s2000 as well. Yeah maybe he screwed up but like i said a race is car & driver.
The gains from my mods. Well lets just say when i saw my dyno graph & i have had it dyno'ed at a few places as i thought i was imagining and it was in shootout mode mind u i was very :shock: :shock:
I am yet to have the chance to run a DC2R off the lights. The older 1.8 type-r rite ? Did mingle with one in and out of traffic and we didnt seem to prove anything getting caught behind cars, catching up, passing one another etc so nothing learnt or taught. Yep they are an awesome piece of machinery, a friend had one a few years back. But the new type-r i think is quicker isnt it ? correct me if im wrong.
The new type-r is also a mean machine that to be honest with you is definitly built for the race track and i have no gripes with that, but on Aussie roads man thats one rough ride but if your into that then so be it.
Also i dont recall mentioning that i out handled a type-r that is NOT possible. The type-r's have been built to twist and turn in a way that put in few words is JUST AMAZING and from driving my friends one man that is one hell of a drive. I have seen 1 out handle a WRX. I say this because the WRX slid into the gutter and the type-r didnt. :twisted: :twisted:
My gripe is people who are of the impression that they own the is and end all of cars. I think some people need to look outside of their own little corners of the car world and see what else is out there.
I have and i give credit where credit is due. Can you honestly make the same statement ?
To be completly honest with you the satisfaction i get from beating a fellow 4 banger isnt that much as it doesnt really prove anything. I personally love to take it out on all those 6's & 8's that believe they own the roads. Tell me would you prefer passing a SS 5L (i have done and continue to hand out lessons in this department VL all the way through to VS, XR6's, normal falcons, XR8's the list goes on) or a 1.8L ?
The problem the integra's and honda's have is that everyone knows what they are and what they can do. The number of people that have under-estimated the sportivo, boy ive lost count. The number of people that have asked me the questions at the next set of lights after ive just blasted them "Thats not just a corolla is it ?" ive also lost count. Street sleeper :) :).
By all means enjoy your cars i know i do.
man nice speech and i give ya credit for takin the time and explaining yourself although the fact that you say you've beaten the new itr and sized up an s2000 won't go down well with the people on here. remember it's a honda forum.
i had this same arguement with my friend. we are still argueing about it now and it is three months down the track. he said he beat an s2000 in his standard 1995 bluebird sss. i said he wasnt racing you but he had witnesses and the guy in the s2k chirped of the line. well like you said it all can come down to the driver and some people must obviously really suck.
all im trying to say is you gotta understand that your claims are gonna make the people on this forum pissed.
anyways congrats on ur victories but i am still one who must see to believe. although i am one to admit those rollas are fast and give the civics a good run and in my case a good floggin.
and i do enjoy my car. :D
Cheers buddy. ;)
mo: don't you read previous posts?
i specifically said that a STOCK SPORTIVO vs a STOCK DC5R INTEGRA TYPE-R....will NOT beat it.
i specifically said that a Stock DC5R will beat a Stock Sportivo. Can i make this any clearer? Or are you still confused as to what i'm trying to say?
Xoom's Sportivo IS NOT stock.
Talk about tunnel vision!