Jazz manual transmission issues versus CVT

Folks. I am interested to get another Jazz (VTi) to replace my old one (GLi, CVT), but due to recent scare of jerkiness on my old GLi, I've decided to look into manual VTi instead of VTi CVT. Actually, the jerkiness is most likely due to something else entirely - perhaps a EGR failure, not CVT related.

However, before I jump head on into it, I like to know what are your experiences/view points on: Jazz manual vs CVT?

1. Are there some hidden issues with manual transmission as in some other likely component failure? For example, CVT has the issue of potentially start clutch failure - very expensive repair. Does manual transmission have any thing like that?

2. The fuel comsumption on manual is marginally more (like 6.1 versus 6.0 - yeah right), so that's not a real issue for me - even in the coming days when petrol is expected to hit some $1.50++ per litre.

3. There reverse gear of CVT is very weak - try reversing up hill with your car front pointing down hill to see what I mean. I presume the manual version will not suffer from this.

4. I'm not sure the 0-100kph performance of manual vs CVT but presumably the former is just slightly faster. To me that's not the main reason to go manual - it's more the simplicity (and hence reliability) of manual vs CVT.

5. Yeah, VTi CVT has 7-speed "manual" but I find the paddle harder to use, especially when you are turning and changing gear - almost impossible to press the right button (left or right?) and yet turn the steering. Or is it just my brain had been programmed to change with left-hand gear stick and steer with right hand while turning, after driving for close to 20 years? :confused:

What do you think?

manual is slightly faster 0-100 time & so far in 2 yrs not one problem with my manual gearbox...

One thing to note is that the manual Jazz also has an EGR valve. If Honda did not fix the problem by using a different part, then you might still get the same jerkyness.

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

One thing to note is that the manual Jazz also has an EGR valve. If Honda did not fix the problem by using a different part, then you might still get the same jerkyness.

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That is correct, faulty EGR will affect GLi/VTi or CVT/manual - regardless of engine/transmission. Nevertheless, I am aiming for a more "reliable" transmission and wonder if manual would fit the bill - just do not want a dead CVT that cost $K++ to fix - even if the car is under warranty, labour cost would be very high.

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Originally Posted by kuso

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

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Perhaps you too can have a look into your EGR valve - since you would not have a faulty start clutch in CVT that may cause the problem.

And Honda gearbox is slick, chunky & satisfying to play with, the best in the business - but as you observe, it wears down with time (which component does not?), and the nice smoothness disappears. The same with CVT - as time goes on, it becomes slightly rougher & noisier.

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Originally Posted by lokets

Perhaps you too can have a look into your EGR valve - since you would not have a faulty start clutch in CVT that may cause the problem.

And Honda gearbox is slick, chunky & satisfying to play with, the best in the business - but as you observe, it wears down with time (which component does not?), and the nice smoothness disappears. The same with CVT - as time goes on, it becomes slightly rougher & noisier.

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honda manuals, though smooth, also have its 'characteristics'.. sometimes, it can be hard to engage 1st to 2nd, if u shift too fast..

any manual clutch wears out by ard 60k-80k km mileage.. but the manual clutch is considerable cheaper to pay.. cost to replace the manual clutch assembly and the CVT start clutch is about the same.. my take is, if there is nothing wrong with ur CVT, keep the car..

consider the $$ outlay to replace ur current jazz with another jazz, i don't think it is worth the $

over 100,000kms and my manual gearbox is still the same, still just needs abit of a tap to change gears and only a little push off the clutch required.

From figures posted by other jazz owners on this website the manual seems to have better economy.

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Originally Posted by muli

over 100,000kms and my manual gearbox is still the same, still just needs abit of a tap to change gears and only a little push off the clutch required.

From figures posted by other jazz owners on this website the manual seems to have better economy.

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That is amazing - pretty good gear shift!

The official figures are that CVT gives better economy (not much as I said before) because infinite gear/computer can decide what's best at all times. Unusual that manual can beat that CVT fuel consumption. Anyhow, that is still good news for manual transmission.

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Originally Posted by kuso

I can feel some jerkiness and shuddering with the manual transmission. Always thought it was due to my driving skills since no others have voiced such a problem. Gear box is not as smooth as time goes on. Maybe its my bad driving skills but its an evident problem to me.

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I have this too and thought I must have become retarded at using a manual...

One friend had joked that I probably still hadn't worn the clutch in (the car only has 17,000km on it after 3 years and for the most part I drive like a granny)

I persoanlly find that the gearbox has good and bad days. I went for a drive on Monday and it just sucked. Nothing felt right at all and I couldn't wait to stop driving. Then other days it is just super-sweet and an absolute joy to work up and down through the gears.

I think that alot of my little problems are due to me being extremely picky and the fact that I just don't use/drive it enough.

Yea there are days when it feels that the clutch grabs whatever it grabs and it does what you want. Sometimes it is not the case and you feel the need to have to hold the clutch more and the like.

In terms of the EGR thing, do I just tell honda that I discussed this on a forum and they said that it is the problem? Some how I don't think they will believe me. I tried to suss out this jerky problem before but it seems that the honda people aren't too reliable in this sense to get everything sorted out.

Maybe if we have a reliable source that could clearly show them that this is a common problem in the jazz, this would help alot in getting them steered in the right direction.

My manual gearbox just done 20k mileage and just got my car serviced today.

It still feels smooth imo. Only time my car jerks is when i release the clutch a bit too early.

no problems for me. its only ever jerky if u clutch out to fast without accellerating enough.. its all about they way u drive

manual gear box for me has been fine for me..... the only time i wish i have a CVT is when i'm stuck in traffic in the morning on the way to work...... :(

Though the fuel comsumption difference between CVT & manual are not much, I'm still interested to know:

For those with manual Jazz (particularly VTi), what is the engine turning at say 100kph on straight, level road (eg: highway)?

My 1.3L iDSI (aka GLi) with CVT does slightly above 2000 rpm, I say around 2100+ rpm, hence producing very impressive fuel consumption figures.

One characteristics & advantage of CVT is that it has a wider range of ratio than manual - its lowest gear is lower, and highest gear is higher.

3k @100kph

exactly 3000rpm@100km/h

I have manual (fake) and auto.. I love F1.

The Jazz manual box is very reliable as long as u shift properly and stick with Honda's manual tranmission fluid. Don't use any other brands otherwise you'll have problems driving it in winter.

Gearbox still feels great after 55,000km of abuse and 10+ track days. Had to replace the clutch disc (around $500) at 30,000km though =P

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Originally Posted by MRFIT

manual gear box for me has been fine for me..... the only time i wish i have a CVT is when i'm stuck in traffic in the morning on the way to work...... :(

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i know how you feel, every time i get stuck in traffic i cry. left leg gets so sore lol especially after work

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Originally Posted by Tony

The Jazz manual box is very reliable as long as u shift properly and stick with Honda's manual tranmission fluid. Don't use any other brands otherwise you'll have problems driving it in winter.

Gearbox still feels great after 55,000km of abuse and 10+ track days. Had to replace the clutch disc (around $500) at 30,000km though =P

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Tony what car do you drive now? Still the jazz?
Also how do you know when you have to replace the clutch.

I do 150klms of freeway each day

i have CVT and @ 100 its 2400rpm

and at 110 its 2900rpm

no probs with cvt. i figured buying a car like the jazz ins't worth my time. its not enjoyable enough. so i just bought an auto as the jazz is a very good commuter, and the manual doesn't give me an increased driver satisfaction. therefore its not worth the effort in a car like the jazz to change gears, let CVT do it for you.

Went with Mrs to initially check out the 2006 Civic, and also as a side line, test out manual Jazz VTi (we have a GLi CVT). Mrs found that she like the manual quite a fair bit, compared to say my old 25 years old Camry manual (who wouldn't?). The transfer stick looks like a golf ball on a stick, has very nice springy feel clutch and engages very well - crunchy and well balanced, I also liked it alot. Obviously, in start/stop traffic, this will become less enjoyable.

So, now looking into real possibility of getting a manual VTi instead of a Civic (also manual), and I got so scared of CVT failure that I think a manual transmission is probably more reliable in the longer term (less things/likelihood to break down). The new 2006 Thai VTi is quite cool as noted else where on this forum.

Just wanted to add to this, I ocassionally get the jerky clutch too on my 03 manual vti. Sometimes it feels like the engagement point of the clutch is like a milimeter off the floor way earlier than it normally is. When it does this, it is normally when starting to go again in traffic and when ive held the clutch in however I havent yet been able to reliably reproduce the behaviour on demand (which is required to show mechanic). This talk about the EGR valve being the cause sounds very plausable as the problem is much more evident with standard unleaded. When running 98, it doesnt occur very often at all. However how this would affect how the clutch feels and egages, im not sure - unless the clutch has hydrolic assistance?

I thought i was going a bit crazy, but in a way, glad to hear there are a few other ppl with funny clutch symptoms.

Also just wanted to add, ive driven a lot of cars, have a lot of experience with manuals, and its definately not the way I drive. I've been involved with motorsport at grass roots level and as a result im a very experienced driver. There's no way 'the way i drive' is the problem (i'll eat my words and buy a automatic 800cc daewoo matiz if im wrong). I think there's a fault like the EGR, which is only affecting some of the jazzers on here.

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Originally Posted by kuso

Tony what car do you drive now? Still the jazz?
Also how do you know when you have to replace the clutch.

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No, I sold the Jazz last year and I'm driving an old Toyota seca now.
I replaced the clutch when it starts to slip and free rev when it is in gear.