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does anyone find a rear 22mm sway an over kill?
I find it more stabe at high speeds (cornering).. but doesnt really allow me to go much faster than having the 13mm..
anyone find the same?
I am running ITR springs..
from factory in a CTR is 240lbs/in springs front and rear with 22mm rear sway and approx 26mm front
btw i drive a EM1
depends on the stock size before you consider it overkill.
put it this way, 15mm to 18mm is a ~200% increase in rigidity
swaybars don't really give you stability in high speeds in a straight line as it is a part that modifies "handling"
eheheh from 15mm to 18mm is only a 107% increaseQuote:
Originally Posted by dsp26
oh sorry i meant high speed cornering... ill edit my post
mine should be over 520% increase in rigidity... from 13mm to 22mm..
All measurements exclude mass/volume hence i'm not calculating the mass difference with the inclusion of swaybar length. The measurements are of area/thickness only.
Also, the measurement is based on a circle, it is assumed that any required flat areas on a swaybar (excluding hollow) is press bent therefore maintaining same area.
13mm - Swaybar Thickness
Area = 3.14159265(Pi) x 7.5mm^2
= 176.7145mm^2
18mm - Swaybar Thickness
Area = 3.14159265(Pi) x 9mm^2
= 254.469mm^2
Difference/Increase
254.469mm^2 - 176.7145mm^2
= 77.7545
= 77.7545 ÷ 176.7145mm^2
= 44% Increase
Factor in Length/mass/volume and you'd have over 100% increase.
But correction to my first post, i meant ~100% increase therefore ~200% of the original. and thats just measure of size, when you consider actual physics results of such a change its amassive!!!
oh my arguments a bit flawed....
addition of solid urethane bushings such as those from Whiteline or Energy Suspension further increases rigidity over oem rubber. this is again something that cannot be measured but very noticeable.
so many people get overly technical about stuff sometimes.
he's proved his point though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp26
hheh I jsut let whiteline do my explaining
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/bulletins/010barup.pdf
oh wells back on top..
would a 22mm be an over kill... (doesnt really matter what u have initally)
the rear bar shifts the balance of the car toward the rear, reducing understeer balancing the car better, it also reduces side to side weight transfer.
but since u got a 26mm (which is rather large) at the front id say that itd shift the ballance back toward almost the stock position,
when i did my bars (my ek4 comes stock with none) i did the 22mm rear first, which made the rear much more lively, and much more ballanced toward oversteer. When i put in my 24mm front bar the ballance seemed to be shifted back toward the front.
so with the 24mm front and 22mm rear i feel my balance is closer to the rear but only slightly more than stock. (i feel slightly reduced understeer, with a more lively rear end). a 26mm front would move the balence forward more than this, so the ratio of grip between front and rear would be very close to stock (a great tendency for understeer). the only change from the bars being a great limit to bodyroll.
i was advised by superfast (kris) that 24mm front is a tad large with a 22mm rear, but went ahead and purchased anyways, now i am thinking that a 20-22mm front would give awsome even ballance between front and rear, with a slight tendency toward oversteer. kris actually recomended 18mm front and i trust his advice.
i dont feel 22mm is over kill. maby try a smaller front bar or go back to stock, cus i can corner quite faster than without swaybars. Where the front woudl start to slide out usually, it now holds on harder (allows quite faster corners before losing traction), and the back end acts as though its more alive.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
doh... thats the article i was looking for :thumbsup:
couldn't find it so i had to calculate it myself... dammit :p
yeah .. sotkc em1 is 26mm front.. heheheh
my car handles well.. but once it snaps.. it snaps.. and it's sometimes really hard to catch even with WOT (on track)
Muzz, i asssume you have a ek... well im not sure about the em1.. as there is proabably a larger tendency for the rear to come around due to the fact that its got a boot..(more weight beyond the rear wheels)
what spring rates have u got on you ek?? with the 26 front and 22 rear my car still rolls a fair bit.... check the pic out ... 1.16.8 (street tyres) --
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...ic/WP_0521.jpg
Quote:
Originally Posted by Muzz
dan i havnt installed my 22mm rear sway yet
but by setting my rear dampers harder than fronts
i was able to get quite neutral steering with the tail sliding out slightly
i think u dont want it to slide too much
i dont think i will install my sway until i get my semi slicks as i feel this is sufficient
honestly speaking.. the rear 22mm upgrade did nothing to my laptime.street driving is definitly more fun.. but track timing is concern i dont think it made me any faster...Quote:
Originally Posted by gelo
maybe from nothing to 22mm might be different and if you are running stock springs
Ive also notice that the ITR sway bar on the civic is not as agressive as the Whiteline one.. this is proabably due to the fact that its mounted alot closer than that of the whiteline kit..
Get your semi gelo.. eheheh then you would be aiming for 1:14x's eheheh
from memory
the oem d2r sway bar is either 22 or 24mm
so size wise is the same
how is the whiteline mounted?
im not gonan get semi's yet
ill be aiming at 1:12's with semis and i/h/e
that one crazy ass aim...Quote:
Originally Posted by gelo
good lucky...:thumbsup:
guys take note..OEM swaybar is hollow in the middle...and whiteline swaybar is full metal...so whiteline is alot stiffer than OEM...
are you sure about this mate? seems pretty dam solid to me.Quote:
Originally Posted by vteccoupe
nah it is hollow in middle...
and gelo...put in sways...much more fun...if its as you say and the rear dampers do a good job...then the rear sway won't be under as much compression (thus it lessens the extent of it being used)
but on street at least feels much much better
Quote:
Originally Posted by barefootbonzai
its damn solid...........
how in the world did anyone come up with OEM sway is hollow?
ask honda hahhaa
that's it, i'm gonna cut one in half tomorrow and find out. take one for the team, hahaha
i've got mine with a whiteline 22mm adjustable and its fine on the road. Handles great but i also have all the strut braces barring the upper rear.
22mm will give great handling, but anything else higher will be hard for road driving.
i find that it will not give u a faster time but it will give you more confidence so you can go though a corner faster..:D
i've got whiteline 22mm with tie bar setup and it feels so much stiffer when turning a corner compare to what it feels like when i got my car stock..
i'm not sure if OEM is hollow or not but it definitely is less dense material...so same shit in the end