Printable View
I am now seriously considering a Turbo Kit for my car. Has anyone used Full Race kits from the USA?
Apparently they are one of the kits you can buy and they make them to leave on the PS/AC as well (which is a must for me).
Any opinions or ideas would be much appreciated. My car is an EM1 (B16). My budget is around 6K and I have aspirations of around 200kw atw.
also have a look at a AVO kit to man your on bout the money ive seen some good results from the AVO kits too.
6k wont get u 200kw at wheels.
Might just be enought for the kit if ur planing on installing it yourself.
You will also need bigger injectors, fuel pump, ECU.
Double you buget and yes 200fwkw is acheivable.
Ok - I wasn't clear there - I meant 6k for the parts only and yes I'm aware of the Fuel Pump, ECU, injectors and clutch.
full race makes very good stuff
with bigger injectors, one of those kits, and an ecu with a very good tune, those power numbers aren't impossible(although you would probably want to do the pistons/rods for safeties sake)
full race has alot of good stuff. seems to be a lil more pricey than other places but the quality also appears better too
You can get a better kit for $4500usd/$6kaud than those. Edelbrock makes some of the best kits now. They give you everything you need and it will keep the PS/AC for you. Starts at $2900usd/3800aud.
200kw=270ish hp <---- For us Americans!! That isn't hard to do, especially in a b16.
Edelbrock kits start at $2900usd/3800aud w/fuel management, Greedy starts at $2600usd/3500aud w/fuel management, Drag kits start at $3500usd/4700aud w/fuel management, Full Race kits start at $3800usd/5100aud no fuel management and is a basic kit.
Fuel management done by a ecu piggyback unit or Hondata/AEM EMS. NO FMU POS!!
It is just my opinion that a Full Race kit for your car just to boost your hp to 200kw/270hp ATW would be easy but would require more parts and that would not be worth it. For a kit that has more to offer and will still get you to your goal with less money spent Edelbrock, Drag, and Greedy would be the better purchase. I guess it just depends on if you want to order a buch of parts that might go great with that kit or a kit that is ready to bolt on and has parts that do go great with it. Not saying Full Race is bad, just not right for you at this time. Just my $.02USD!!!
the components that come with the fullrace kits are much better than those other ones though. You're not going to make that kind of power on the pathetically small turbo that comes with the greddy kit, and will be very much pushing it with the gt28r in the edelbrock(do they even do a b16 kit? thought it was only d16).
With all off those kits, you're still going to need to add fuel injectors, and ecu, etc... none of them have an acceptable ems.
Yes, the full race kit is expensive, but it's far more acceptable if you want to make a lot of power now, and have the potential to make a lot more power later. Those other kits are really more of entry level kits designed for giving a nice little boost in power, but nothing major.
Yes Edelbrock has a b16 kit, none yet for the others, except the d-series. The Edelbrock comes with a set of secondary injectors on a second rail along with an intake manifold and uses a piggy-back unit that has been proven to work well with the stock ecu. We run those all day at the tracks with no other ecu mods and do well. Drag has RC's as a option, Greedy comes with 440's and a E-Manage. Edelbrock also has a option for a bigger turbo for about $250USD.
Thanks for your input guys- this is a great discussion!
piggy backs are no good either way... may work fine for leaving the boost alone, but the power he wants isn't going to be had with the boost as it comes from the factory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow96GSR
You'll need injectors and an ecu with any of those set ups to get to where he wants.
The Full Race Kits seem pretty good. To me they seem much more reliable and more R&D then AVO Kits, but as others have said they don't come with everything. Get some decent 550cc injectors, Engine Management, Fuel Pump, combine this with the Stage1 GT kit (450hp) and a decent tune, and surely you'll be seeing some decent numbers.
The Full Race kits need a smaller half sized radiator too don't they? Due to there Turbo Manifold?
Matt
Yeah, most of the full-race kits need 1/2 size radiator and depending on the kit may not allow p/s or a/c. Visit full-race.com for the info. If you want to see some of the results with the full-race kits tho, go to panekmechanik.com and see some of the vids of the tegs and civics...
For stock block/head with no future intentions of spending the large $ to get big big HP, then go with the Edelbrock, Drag kits like Slow96GSR has said.
However, for long term goals of 300+whp I would go with the Full Race stuff. They have shown big gains with all of their kits, as Saxman said.
If you look at the F/R (PWR) back door intercooler it goes for $640USD or so for the basic 20x8x3" cooler. Thats quite a bit of dollars for an intercooler when a Precision cooler will do the same for less than half that. Full Race just makes sure quality is added. Not that the Precision doesnt have quality.
So tally this up - Full Race kit Stage I - approx 5-6k shipped, Walbro - $165 (I think - JDM Yard), Injectors - 600 (550cc+), reg, Hondata s200 tuned (1,500), oil/boost guages, clutch (if needed) etc etc comes to much more than 6k.
James (BLKCRX) uses the F/R manifold and has had good success pulling 450whp so I would imagine it would be good quality. Alot of the US guys these days are making cheaper, quality manifolds - but I suppose your paying for a well-established, proven brand! Other alternatives - are OneFab, Neukin, JGFab etc all on Honda-Tech - which are much cheaper. Friend uses a "cheaper" kit and still makes 300 whp (sleeves,pistons,rods,18psi) on an Ebay manifold.
Go with a top-mount and you can make B18C 833whp like an Integra I read about!
man you can peice together yourself a "custom kit for around 6500ish maybe a little more with tuning and installation if you plan on getting a work shop to install for you....put it this way i spent around that maybe a squige more due to the larger ignition system i brought....but the only thing is you probably wont get the the 200kw mark...i'm a smigen under 200kw in my R on 8psi so im thinking you would probably make 160-170ish on a stock engine with a simular set up to mine.
you spent over 6.5k and still didnt get over 200kw. money well spent.
i was going to buy the full-race kit, but it worked out cheaper to source most of the parts locally and only bring in the manifold due to high shipping costs.. the manifolds are pricey but of very high quality(an weighed like 25kgs)
also what car is this going into?cos i got the manifold that allows a/c to run aswell, but the turbo sat a few cm's away from the turbo which ment the a/c wasnt very cool:( im gong to relocate the condensor to the side. and i'd probably recommend not using a EG half size radiator as they are really small/thin, get a custom twin core (i had no say as nothing else fitted my crx)
I am looking at these Full Race Turbo kits also as my plans are now turboing,
This is for an EK4 VTiR with B16A2,
So when your talking about 1/2 size radiator is that just the same as the standard size, i mean can i upgrade to a better race style radiator, i.e thicker or will there be no room,
So i am looking around this to get the set up:
Stage 2 or 3 Full Race Turbo Kit
New Injectors (please give ideas as to future mods include built bottom end)
New Fuel Pump (As Above)
ECU (Need some ideas here as to whats best to run)
Morosso Baffled Oil Pan
Full Tune on standard internals running maybe 5 - 8 PSI,
So my guess to set this up good will be around $9000-$9500 i am not wanting to break any power records just something reliable till i can get the bottom end built,
i would be stocked if i could be driving around happily with around 140-150kw at the wheels,
Please also if i seem to have forgotten any other things i may need let me know, thanks,
Also i am thinking about speaking with DynoDave in regards to tuning, what are your thoughts, people who have had him tune their cars?
For around 150 kw at the wheels, ill recommend the avo kit instead. itll cost u cheaper while still retaining ur a/c and p/s without any hassle. Plus ull get a more smoother power without the turbo lag of a larger T3 turbo that FR is made for.
I want that Edelbrock turbo kit!
i have an idea: me, waggy and brad, all call them together and get them to ship3 b-series turbo kits out here and try get them cheaper for getting 3? :p
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slow96GSR
Wont the b16 kit fit the b18 too? are they made for specific cars? because the intercooler kits wont be the ssame for all cars.
The bigger turbo says for displacement from 1.7-2.7L so would that make that out of the questiion?
I have a b18 so i would want the bigger turbo, but would it create much more lag?
are there any exact people names, businesses, phone numbers, addresses in Sydney that get u a deal for noobies who dont know how to import engines, turbos, suspension and whatever else?
LOL I'm down for that - how much are the edelbrock kits anyway? Cheaper than FR?Quote:
Originally Posted by VTi_b0i
I think vtecbrad is closer to what it's actually gonna cost. There's always other stuff that more power demands, eg better tyres, clutch, exhaust system, cooling etc...
yeah SlowGSR said they start at $3800AUD which isnt too bad... maybe we can get it a fair bit cheaper...Quote:
Originally Posted by Waggy
Dont forget as Barefoot says, that price is only for the turbo kit and i am sure that Slowgsr wouldnt have calculated the extra costs of customs, 10% Import Tax Fee + 10%GST there abouts, so your $3800.00
is more like $4600.00+
In regards to the AVO kit isnt it only a 350 - 400hp turbo? wouldnt that power figure be at the motor?? so it would be like between 200 - 250kw at the wheels?? and to get the power figures i would like later wouldnt that be really stressing the turbo?? smaller turbo couldnt handle as much boost as the t3/t67 turbo?? and i like the feeling of the sudden rush, throw back into the seats, wet your pants before you can change the gears,
I am looking at pushing the boost in once its built for it and hoping for around 250 - 300 kw at the front wheels for drag racing,
When i said around 150kw i meant running very lowish boost without the bottom end rebuilt so on the stock bottom end, 1.6ltr not the fully built 1.8ltr
Yeah well I'm thinking about turbo'ing AGAIN. Shouldn't have driven my mates freshly tuned 290rwkw R33.
That's true about what Barefoot/Vtecbrad says with the import taxes etc.... which would be in effect for the Full Race turbo kits also - which means for a Stage 1 GT (which would be what I would use) they would come in at just under an "oh shit" level of close to $9k......
I'm on good money - but that is edging on ridiculous!! Edelbrock looks tasty..
is this tread still alive?..... waggy theres a AVO complete kit for sale if your still interested. pm me
edited
so did any of you end up with the edelbrock kit?
can rocket industries bring it in, i think they deal with edelbrock..
No - I'm going to building a kit up myself.
Trying to find a log manifold that support an external wastegate at a reasonable price atm. We'll see what happens....
I firstly have to get my new head on - so this will be a very slow process for me.
what turbo will you be going for?
GT2860RS with a T3 housing. 0.82A/R.
Most likely will be going the FR GT Stage 1 if I get a kit.
We'll see. :)
theres a used AVO kit going cheap if your interested, complete with piggyback ecu, cooler, turbo, manifolds, piping... the whole lot, let me know if your interested.
PM'ed :)