Getting the exhaust SOon

hey guys due to a windfall i'm giong to get a new exhaust next month (after exams)... i'm pretty much set on a 2inch, and yes i've read all those pros and cons in the forums, and asked an old old mechanic about it... unanimous decision was 2 inch... according to the old boy, no matter vtec or other "jibberish" as he puts it... a 1.6 (i have a ek4 b16a2) should never go past 2 inches unless ur talking FI or hgih high output in excess of 250HP... he went on for ages.... about scavenging, etc etc...

ok so with 2 inch... i'm looking at the mugen twin loop thing design, (probably get replica, i dont print money with my an*s) ... but nwo i have the question... my car ALREADY runs 2 inch piping... is it REALLY worth changing the piping? or can i get a hiflow cat + the muffler with the original piping? i can afford either way, but dont wanna waste dosh unneccessarily

cheers peeps... and btw if u want color coding refer to my other thread, try get u guys a group discount if my family friend is up for it

Dont be stupid man - get 2.25"

As a general rule of thumb - if its sub 2L, get 2".

...but its a (relatively) high output, high revving motor - get 2.25", its just a waste otherwise.

PS- check the diameter of every single aftermarket exhaust 99% are 2.25"

Man, ain't stock exhausts like 2" ?
LOL

the mugen twinloop is 2.25" already..

ur joking? i was told 2inch... ah well if thats the case, there goes the piping!! :D

wot material should i insist on? i know mandrel bent defintely, but wot material?

Majority of them are Stainless Steel..

2" exhaust is fine. If your positive you already have 2" then just get a highflow cat and the twin loop replica you were talking about. I know X-Force do a replica Mugen twin loop muffler so you might want to investigate that cos they are only a few hundred dollars.

obviously mandrel bent exhaust is better but if you've already got a 2" exhaust and it isnt mandrel bent i wouldnt waste my money to get a whole new exhaust just to get a mandrel bent exhaust.. you wont notice the difference especially on a NA car.

i am highly positive that the EK4 stock is 2inch... :D sorry mike, but i really want 2inches, i had a long long discussion with some ppl and they all seem to agree that 2inch is good... but of course 2.25 is good, just different application... :)

Personally i'm getting 2 inches not only cos of money, its also cos i know i dont wanna turn my EK into some KW monster, at least not ne time soon. I'll be willing and able to fork out for the piping if i thought i needed it...

I'll ring x-force and ask... but can neone tell me, minus the cat and the muffler, is the EK4 stock exhaust piping really heavy? or not a noticable difference?

btw i took a look under my car at the mechanics ( to get a good look at the piping) it seemed rusted on the outside,,, is that a problem? or is that just normal?

Ok mate - i think your making a mistake - but thats just me....

I am using the x-firce twin loop and it has good power, good looks and sounds good too.
Most of all its cheap! This guy hooked me up with a great price! He is on this forum too.
Email him: jef32c@hotmail.com

where can i find details or pics on xforce twin loop muffler?

couldn't find it on the website

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by alan

couldn't find it on the website

---

Yeah it isnt on the website for some reason. I just sent them an email and they emailed me back with a price and a place close to me where i could get one from.

probably cost u a lot to get a custom stainless steel one made up...

just get a mandrel bent mild steel done...


actually, since u have an EK4... why not just buy a proper branded one?

PM fueltank on these forums. He might be able to help with an Xforce twin loop.

hahaha y does me having a ek4 mean i can afford a spoon N1 or woteva? :D not rich man... i bought the car the hard way,.... myself...

8)

thanks jone... will do...

lol no sorry i didn't mean it like that...

understandable, i bought my car myself too.

but if there was such a thing as a bolt on aftermarket cat back for my car.. it's what i'd be saving for.

how much are u planning on spending all up??

cat + piping + muffler? (inc. labour)??

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by joneblaze

PM fueltank on these forums. He might be able to help with an Xforce twin loop.

---

Yeah fueltank hooked me up. The twin loop comes in 2 versions. The civic one is flatter and has a angled tip. The one which looks like the Mugen ones tend to be too low and may knock chassis.

fueltank is d dealer y0! :P

hey my exhaust piping is 60mm! how many inches is that?? i worked it out to be 2.36" but im not sure if my metric standards r correct (25.4mm = 1 inch?)

2.38" :)

I'm sure I had the fight over msn with you anyways :P

i thought standard size was more like 1.75 or so... anyway, 2-2.25 is fine, get some mandrel bends done :D

I'm guessing mandrel bends are bends in the pipe done with a machine called a mandrel. What are the benefits of having bends and what are the benefits furter of having mandrel bends?

i'm planning on spenidng around 800 bucks installed... right now looking at just getting a high flow cat, and mugen muffler twin loop (replica unless i can find one cheap) and keep piping...

and nah i cheked with the mechanic... had to get a new water pump... the car was jacked up... the guy measured it in front of me and said 2 inches... doubt he could screw that up :D

oh and for the 2 v 2.25 thing

the mechanic basically said (a lot of it flew over my head)...

1. he's been doing htis for 30 odd years
2. a 1.6 litre only would need over 2inches where either Force induction is being used or i'm running over 160kw at wheel
3. its because small NA need "scavenging" effect, and 2.25 would mean that this would only kick in at high rpms... reducing its usefulness in normal day driving. His example wsa that either at traffic light grand prix, or especially taking ur car on twisties.. 2inch would be a better application as u tend ot use low revs more... there arent that many corners u can maintain 4500+ rpm on... (and even if u can theoretically doesnt mean the driver, me, can do that...)

according to him it cmes down to drivability, and overall package... getting a bit of top end over lots of low end loss isnt practical on road twisties or normal traffic

he DID however metnion that it >>>MIGHT<<< be a good application for track... where u can maintain high sppeds/RPM

and another source (HI Kit!!!) said even mugen agrees with this implicitly by only making a muffler, basically deeming that 2inches is enough...

So there... from all those opinioins, i tend to want to stick to 2inches... i trust the mechanic guy a fair bit, he seems to know wot he's doing...

BUT, still open to opinions!!

:D

thanks guys

Garry

hmmm id say yeah, he is rite in some aspects... generally for most sub 2ltr 2" is sufficient if you want to maintain a drivable wider powerband...

but you are forgetting that OUR power band is at 5500rpm++... not exactly low revs.

i dunno about u, but in twisties/traffic light grand prix... i try to keep the car in it's power band :)

Yhe he doesnt really hvae much experience with vtec machines...

but consider this, u wanna keep ur car in 5500rpm.. not exactly the easiest task...and according to him, the gains would be negligible anyway...

considerign that u will inevitably get out of VTEC, it'd be better for the driver to be able to get BACK IN t vtec quicker... personally NA cars imho are meant to have linear power bands that dont lag... i'm concerend that with 2.25 i'll experience osmething akin to "vtec - lag" ... and considering that the B16A2 in my car has plenty torque up high anyway,... rahter have some help down low...

just my view...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by **Ghost**

Yhe he doesnt really hvae much experience with vtec machines...

but consider this, u wanna keep ur car in 5500rpm.. not exactly the easiest task...and according to him, the gains would be negligible anyway...

considerign that u will inevitably get out of VTEC, it'd be better for the driver to be able to get BACK IN t vtec quicker... personally NA cars imho are meant to have linear power bands that dont lag... i'm concerend that with 2.25 i'll experience osmething akin to "vtec - lag" ... and considering that the B16A2 in my car has plenty torque up high anyway,... rahter have some help down low...

just my view...

---

The only way to make power on a 1.6-1.8 DOHC VTEC is to rev it to buggary.....you may as well have bought another car! Dont try to compensate for its lack of torque - use the engine for its strengths.

mike i do rev it to buggery... hahaha i'm just thinking that a 2inch will let me rev it UP to buggery easier thats all... :D a little bit less of buggery up top in exchange for ease to get UP to the bugger

I'm sorry but this thread is getting absurd. Aftermarket headers and cat back with a GOOD hiflow cat is the only thing you should be putting on. Shit even my G/F didn't want to know about custom exhausts for her EK4.

End result of proper aftermarket headers and catback....... amazing midrange and upper rpm increase in power. The car only really lost marginal power from 1500 to 2500-2700 after that it wants to get down to business.

Save your money and do it right the first time man.

Oh and yes, we are not made of money also but would rather not have anything than have something shit on the car.

I thought it was an unspoken rule that 4cyl NA cars use 2.25" cat back?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creative

I thought it was an unspoken rule that 4cyl NA cars use 2.25" cat back?

---

That's what I thought until I saw Trust's PEII which is at 60mm diameter which is between 2.25" and 2.5" (about 2.38") :P

My Tanabe Hyper Medallion is also 60mm = 2.36 Cat back too :nod:

meh, I just say 2.25 when people ask :lol:
hehehehe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creative

I thought it was an unspoken rule that 4cyl NA cars use 2.25" cat back?

---

Unspoken or not..... look at all the jap companies that make the exhausts and what size piping they use......

I mean you have a whole industry that is dedicated to cars produced within that country so they have done the research and testing and once they have a product that is exceptional they continue to build to the same exacting standards.

I don't know...... local exhausts could be good though wouldn't you rather experience with local product knowledge (I'm talking about aftermarket performance companies knowing their local cars) than someone who has been working on 1.6 litre engines for 30 years and knows best about 1.6 litre engines. Do you buy an exhaust from japan for your HSV?

I'm sorry but a Vtec engine is a far cry from a 1.6 Kent or crossflow (whatever they where) found in the old escorts, cortinas and capri?

And before anyone says anything, I am not dumping on anyone, my first car was a '71 Capri with a 1.6 and I loved it to bits and yes would take it to a local guy that had worked for 30 years on these types of engines.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SPEEDCORE

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creative

I thought it was an unspoken rule that 4cyl NA cars use 2.25" cat back?

---

Unspoken or not..... look at all the jap companies that make the exhausts and what size piping they use......

I mean you have a whole industry that is dedicated to cars produced within that country so they have done the research and testing and once they have a product that is exceptional they continue to build to the same exacting standards.

I don't know...... local exhausts could be good though wouldn't you rather experience with local product knowledge (I'm talking about aftermarket performance companies knowing their local cars) than someone who has been working on 1.6 litre engines for 30 years and knows best about 1.6 litre engines. Do you buy an exhaust from japan for your HSV?

I'm sorry but a Vtec engine is a far cry from a 1.6 Kent or crossflow (whatever they where) found in the old escorts, cortinas and capri?

And before anyone says anything, I am not dumping on anyone, my first car was a '71 Capri with a 1.6 and I loved it to bits and yes would take it to a local guy that had worked for 30 years on these types of engines.

---

Thats wot i said :thumbsup:

thanks for the comments guys... i'm gong to go somehwere with some dyno proof... a fellow member offered it, but odnt have time :cry:

I dont know what your point is?

If you lok at my sig you will see I drive a jap car and use a jap made exhaust.....

Your post gave me the impression you were having a go at me?

Im lost.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by **Ghost**

i am highly positive that the EK4 stock is 2inch... :D sorry mike, but i really want 2inches, i had a long long discussion with some ppl and they all seem to agree that 2inch is good... but of course 2.25 is good, just different application... :)

Personally i'm getting 2 inches not only cos of money, its also cos i know i dont wanna turn my EK into some KW monster, at least not ne time soon. I'll be willing and able to fork out for the piping if i thought i needed it...

I'll ring x-force and ask... but can neone tell me, minus the cat and the muffler, is the EK4 stock exhaust piping really heavy? or not a noticable difference?

btw i took a look under my car at the mechanics ( to get a good look at the piping) it seemed rusted on the outside,,, is that a problem? or is that just normal?

---

you're funny. how the hell will getting .25" of extra piping make your torqueless monster a kw monster LOL! :D
In any case I would go 2.25"...CTR is 1.6 and comes with 2.25"

hmmmm... how in the world did u get the impression i was having a go at u? ust doing some research here before i fork out the 1000 or so i'm going to spend :?

maybe the reason why all the performance jap ones are 2.25 is cos they are designed for track use therefore not concerned with low end loss?

man so many internet mechanics nowadays. I wish i could do that fora living, i woudlnt have burns and cuts on my hands all the time :(

someone said b4 (think it was speedcore) somethin bout not usin local made parts but i think u should look into some of the australian companies cause there are a few aussie companies out there who are actually building the parts for companies such as 5zigen and so forth so i dont think we should go and rite off aussie made stuff straight away

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by **Ghost**

hmmmm... how in the world did u get the impression i was having a go at u? ust doing some research here before i fork out the 1000 or so i'm going to spend :?

---

I meant Speedcore's post :)

Offcourse you should do your research when you spend that amount of cash. :)

if u got 800 to spend, get a jap system
you won't need a hi flow cat until you get extractors if you ever get to that point

i went 2inches too
unless someone can prove that 2.25 makes any reasonable gain at all..
then wahts the use?
for 1.6l, 2' is known to be the optimum size, any bigger and u'll lose some bottom end as well as gaining nothing in topend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigteethygrin

I'm guessing mandrel bends are bends in the pipe done with a machine called a mandrel. What are the benefits of having bends and what are the benefits furter of having mandrel bends?

---

My take on the benefit of having mandrel bends, all the bends are smooth. ;) Even where the bends are, the diameter is constant. Press bent, at the bends, the diameter can decrease, bottlenecking the exhaust flow. And the finish is just much better.

i've also heard that 60mm or 2.38" is optimum for modded B16A engines.
Heck, i got me self a 2.5" anyway as the exhaust place had been getting good results with that diameter....i got it dynoed before & after too. From 93.1kw [2" catback] to 98.9kw [header, hfc & 2.5" system] 5.8kw peak gain.

The results showed that the new system followed the old, till it got to about 3500rpm where it overtakes the old system. So no loss in low end. Guess the header helped out a bit in that department.

But each to their own !
and please...no replies about the high readings... :| http://www.ozhonda.com/forums/album_pic.php?pic_id=553
Tell ya what though, my vtec change over point has lowered itself from 5.5k-6k rpm, to 4.8k-5.2k rpm.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Creative

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by **Ghost**

hmmmm... how in the world did u get the impression i was having a go at u? ust doing some research here before i fork out the 1000 or so i'm going to spend :?

---

I meant Speedcore's post :)

Offcourse you should do your research when you spend that amount of cash. :)

---

LOL man I'm lost.... I don't know what you guys are talking about. If its any help.. I didn't get offended by anybody.... we are having a discussion here. :?

Yes I would do research on everything and make your own decisions, especially with expensive stuff like exhausts.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Civ_97

"there are a few aussie companies out there who are actually building the parts for companies such as 5zigen"

---

LMFAO!! Wipe your chin cause you dribblin' verbal diahorea!

hey just wondering... a good intake (not sucking hot air) and a good catback... + a hondata tuning afterwards, owt changes would it maketo the car?

would it change the vtec switch point? change the speed (KM/Hour) i can rev to in each gear?

in terms of 0-100... take maybe a too hopeful 0,5 seconds off ET?|

more important is extractors than catback
biggest gains are gained there

besides X-force, are there any other repilica twin loops mufflers??

where can i buy them from in melbourne??

got a 200 dollar quote for twin loop from JDMELEMENT mate

which brand is that?
who is jdmelement? is he located in melbourne?

Is this the one?
http://www.driftr.com/xforce/images/namuffler.jpg

$150

That looks nice - whats the X-force one made out of?

SS?

SS

MO where'd u download that from for the 150 dollar price tag|?!|!

http://www.driftr.com/xforce/

heh. i just bought that muffler... sounds quite okay IMO. although i miss the angry sound of the n1.

i was hoping this would end up under 90dB, but it turned out to be 91dB. at least it's quiet enough to not attract attention.

ginganggooly: So u just got the TL replica axle-back? Any piping done? And where did you get the exhaust fitted?

Thanks.

"quite okay"? not great?

what is your setup ginga?

i thinkhe whole point of the mugen twin loop is to deaden sound while having performance... got pulled over last nite... for redlining it past doncaster road, but the cop got me BEFORE i was over the speed limit (i was in 1st gear hahaha didnt see the pig at the intersection)... he got me, examined my car top to bottom but it was STOCK...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SiR

ginganggooly: So u just got the TL replica axle-back? Any piping done? And where did you get the exhaust fitted?

Thanks.

---

already had a 2.5" system, just changed axle back parts... livo exhaust did all the work for me.

VTEC16-
quite okay, as in i miss the scream of the old muffler. it's nice, but a little quiet. the twin loop is quieter than the n1 with the silencer plugged in.

JUST PM FUELTANK FOR ALL XFORCE NEEDS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ginganggooly

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SiR

ginganggooly: So u just got the TL replica axle-back? Any piping done? And where did you get the exhaust fitted?

Thanks.

---

already had a 2.5" system, just changed axle back parts... livo exhaust did all the work for me.

---

Sweet :)

i believe if u goto to motorware
they will be able to solve your problem.. :)

motorware rox cox in jox