Are my lights too high?

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27-07-2006, 01:27 PM
LXRY

Are my lights too high?

When I drive at night I'm forever getting high beamed by oncoming drivers, are my lights too high or are they just very bright? I drive with my finger on the trigger waiting for pplz to high beam me so I can give them my high beams...usually I get a high beam flash, but u get some drivers that keep em on then I go for spotties and high beams together....lol.

Has any one else had this experience. Not really bothered by it as i can see everything at night, lighting is brilliant. (driving 06 euro lxry)
27-07-2006, 01:42 PM
EuroDude

I get blinded by oncoming euro lux's all the time, and have even flashed a few thinking they had their high beams on :eek:

There is definetely something not right about the euro's HID's. No other HID car has this issue, except for maybe the BMW X5's since they are high up.
27-07-2006, 02:13 PM
LXRY

Appology accepted EuroDude lol... Would it happen if I lowered it ? Any one lowered there's yet? Does it still happen when lowered?
27-07-2006, 02:14 PM
ABS121

They're just Jealous they dont have HID's themselves, dont worry about em'
27-07-2006, 02:58 PM
EuroAccord13

Don't the Luxury Euros have self adjusting HID lights?
27-07-2006, 03:00 PM
avid

Yea,you're absolutely right LXRY,I actually had that same experience yesterday evening coming home from work.I was about to flash the guy when i realised it was a neighbours lux Euro.I've been thinking about a HID kit for mine,but i'm not so sure anymore.Mabye just stronger Halogen bulbs might satisfy me.Like a lot of members though,i also like the "cool" aspect of having HIDS,as well as the better light output,but at the end of the day it might be more trouble than its worth.Dont want to get "flashed" all the time.
27-07-2006, 03:20 PM
EuroDude

Yeah I was thinking about getting HID too, its great for the driver, but no so good for oncoming traffic which could leed to an accident.

Give the Philips H1 BlueVisions a try, they mimick HID (bright white with a blue tinge edge) and give out good light brightness for Halogen standards :thumbsup:
27-07-2006, 03:28 PM
Pumped

haha i get it all the time, people flashing there high beams at me thinking i have mine on, brings a smile to my face
Love the headlights, after driving my car then getting into my dads BA XR6 i almost feel the need to drive with the hi beams on :)

And yes i believe the headlights are self adjusting
27-07-2006, 04:12 PM
ABS121

All Cars equipped with HID (from factory) have some form of self leveling and washers.

One thing people need to realise is that most HID equipped cars run halogens for high beam, so unless you can see bright yellowy white light aswell chances are its just low beam. very few make/models run bi-zenon
as standard
27-07-2006, 04:25 PM
EuroDude

ABS dont you mean they run Halogens for Low beam, and HID for High Beam?
27-07-2006, 04:27 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

ABS dont you mean they run Halogens for Low beam, and HID for High Beam?

No, it's HID for low beam and halogens for high beams.

Some BMW and Audi models advertise "Bi-xenon" headlights. That means both low and high beams are HIDs.
27-07-2006, 04:31 PM
Jazzle

i think it's not just the euro HID, the lexus, bmw all have very bright lights imo.

my bro drives a crx and got pull off once by the stupid police for having a bright yellowish headlight, yes it's bright but it's not that bright that will affect oncoming traffic (lot dimmer than HID).. i reckon sometimes there's discrimnation agains the cheap old car with nice headlight. so rich ppl with expensive car and blind whoever they want with HID but poor ppl should drive their cheap cars with dime ugly lights??
27-07-2006, 04:32 PM
EuroDude

hms I thought it would have been the opposite since HID is much brigher.
27-07-2006, 04:44 PM
EuroDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazzle

i think it's not just the euro HID, the lexus, bmw all have very bright lights imo.

If the BMW/Audi/Lexus is on a slope, yeah. But I find the Euro's lights are excessively bright even on flat ground. The other cars dont bother me on flat ground at all.

I wander if there is a way to adjust the auto leveler :o
27-07-2006, 04:58 PM
saxman

there should be a way to adjust the alignment of the headlights

they should be aimed so that if you're on level ground, and parked 25 feet away from a wall, the lower part of the cut off is 3" lower than the center of the projector in the headlight.(Go to car, measure height of projector, go to wall 25 feet away, and draw a line 3" lower than the height of the projector).

The beam should slope down at a 10-15 degree angle from the car.

There are no cars that I know of that use HIDs for only high beam use. The quick on off use of high beams causes the ballasts to burn out quickly. Most cars with bixenon projectors also have a halogen light for flash to pass functions. The normal hid high beam uses a moving shield inside the projector... it doesn't do anything with the bulb. If you try to flash your high beams without the low beams on, the halogen bulbs used come in to play.
28-07-2006, 06:50 AM
Omotesando

Yep that's right, HID's headlights and ballasts can get burnt if you turn them on and off quickly. So Halogens are still better for high beam unless its a bi-xenon with movable shield or movable HID bulb setup.

The reason why HID's can be used as low beam is because it 'most usually' sits in a projector housing which means its light beam spread angle is controlled within a certain area (onto the ground), so that that patch is brightly lit but outsire that area it doesn't produce glare onto the opposite traffic.

I agree with LXRY of course because as I've mentioned somewhere else, I always get high-beamed by oncoming traffic. Like him I always highbeam the others back to let them know they're mistaken - which I didn't want to do at the beginning but on average I get flashed once every night so you could imagine the severity of the problem.

And I also get blinded by oncoming or behind-me Euro Luxuries as well... Other cars that blind me on a flat road include BMW X5, Chrysler 300C, but its no worst than Euro Lux. Non-HID cars that glare me include BA Ford Falcons, any 4WDs, DC5 integras with their lights changed to some other bulb/HID, and the random utility truck with upgraded lights.

What is wrong with the Euro HIDs? Glare. Lack of light intensity for HID. Saw an Alfa 159 next to me its lights were much brighter than mine. Drove next to my friend's E46 330ci just tonight and it looks like my lights weren't even on.

I'm not saying the Euro HID's are not bright - they're brighter than halogen for sure, but I'm just saying that for an HID equipped car, it has potential to have better vision.... hmmm..
28-07-2006, 12:33 PM
kam

yup, ive noticed that the Euro's HID is very very bright, even when directly compared to a new BMW 5 Series, its a lot brighter.
28-07-2006, 01:44 PM
LXRY

Got someone else to drive my car for me last night(curious), drove another car next to it and behind it(not oncoming), had to have a look for myself....was I impressed lol, my euro was lighting up the way for both of us, I even turned off my lights lol. damn they bright....
28-07-2006, 01:54 PM
CIGXM

Any of you do much country driving? How do you find the Lux lights on the open road?
28-07-2006, 02:06 PM
LXRY

CIGXM..... I'm in the country.....Open roads, I dont even use the high beams anymore, lol, thats how good they are.
28-07-2006, 03:45 PM
saxman

Regardless of what hid set up you have, you'll get used to the light output, and other lights will seem brighter. If you were the driver of the e46(which really have very mediocre hid set ups), you would feel the same thing pulling up next to an accord euro. Has to do with your eyes getting used to the light your putting out, etc. You really see the difference in light output when you can compare the light output side by side, not behind the wheel of one car. The accord euro projetors are actually very nice set ups.

As for the glare from other hid equipped cars... the 300c is known for coming with horribly aimed projectors from the factory. They always seem to be pointed way to high. I bet if you saw another car sitting side by side that uses the same projectors(a lot of car, especially among the german/american cars, use the same projectors) you wouldn't get the same glare. Stuff like the x5 is obvious... the vehicle is 10 feet off the ground, of course you're gonna get more glare.

Can someone with a euro with hids park your car 25 feet from a wall, and measure where the cut off is relative to the height of the projectors? I wonder if they're aimed properly.
28-07-2006, 09:33 PM
hotout

HID's hardly ever bother me, maybe because I've got tints..
29-07-2006, 12:49 AM
Omotesando

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

Regardless of what hid set up you have, you'll get used to the light output, and other lights will seem brighter. If you were the driver of the e46(which really have very mediocre hid set ups), you would feel the same thing pulling up next to an accord euro. Has to do with your eyes getting used to the light your putting out, etc. You really see the difference in light output when you can compare the light output side by side, not behind the wheel of one car. The accord euro projetors are actually very nice set ups.

As for the glare from other hid equipped cars... the 300c is known for coming with horribly aimed projectors from the factory. They always seem to be pointed way to high. I bet if you saw another car sitting side by side that uses the same projectors(a lot of car, especially among the german/american cars, use the same projectors) you wouldn't get the same glare. Stuff like the x5 is obvious... the vehicle is 10 feet off the ground, of course you're gonna get more glare.

Can someone with a euro with hids park your car 25 feet from a wall, and measure where the cut off is relative to the height of the projectors? I wonder if they're aimed properly.

Get used to the light output? What are you on about? I noticed this the first day I've owned the Euro Accord.

As for being a driver in the E46 330Ci, yes I've done that numerous times as a comparison and the lights are more brighter and slightly yellower on the road.

The 300c - yes you're right I think they're pointed a bit too high from factory. Perhaps its because that car sits a bit high. May be with the Euro, its because the headlights sit a bit further up than usual as well? Just cannot explain the glare.

One can indulge away in the theories Saxman but seriously, in real life, yes the EURO's HID lights are brighter than the usual lights - that I don't disagree with :) But I know it when I saw my HID's aren't as bright as some. Actually some of the new mercedes HID head lights aren't that bright either. So aren't the RX-8s - now that this topic has been brought up and I keep comparing them!
29-07-2006, 07:56 AM
saxman

When you're behind the wheel, your eyes get used to the output... like walking into a dark room after being outside in the sun... I would be willing to bet that if you pulled up next to another accord euro, you'd be trying to figure out why his hids were so much brighter than yours.

Having compared the projector output side by side, I can tell you that the euro projectors output a lot more light than the e46 ones.

Most of the mercedes lights use the E55 projectors, which are about the worst bixenons available.

I'll agree the euro projectors aren't the best out there, but they certainly top the e46 units. Also depends on where you're comparing the brightness of the lights. Directly in front of the car? 500 feet away? To the sides? etc The fact that you say the 330 lights were brighter and yellower suggests that your euro bulbs have colorshifted. The euro and the 330 use the same color temp bulbs, and as they colorshift, they will move towards the blue side of the color spectrum, and lose some intensity in light.
29-07-2006, 10:45 AM
Adagio

Euro Bright Lights

I seem to remember reading somwhere that all these bright "gas" lights are required by law (ADRs) to have them automatically adjusted for height , load etc. I assume this automatic system may be able to be adjusted by Honda dealers? I have not had anyone flash at me except when I have left them on high. I need high out here a lot to spot the wombats.
Adagio
30-07-2006, 01:13 AM
Omotesando

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

When you're behind the wheel, your eyes get used to the output... like walking into a dark room after being outside in the sun...

1) 1stly you're making a very incorrect analogy. When you walk from a bright space into a dark space with a 'large enough discrepancy' in light level, in this transitional phrase the eyes are only taking time to gradually readjust and enlarge the pupils to let in more light before vision improves.

This has absolutely nothing to do with driving a car at night time when your eyes don't undergo the transitional phrase (except initially when turning on headlights). Throughout and during this driving period your pupils are almost at a constant opening size 'unlike' the sun/dark room sample above.

In fact you theory only proves quite the OPPOSITE. As you said so yourself, the eyes/pupils will readjust to the changing lighting condition each and every time INDEPENDENTLY - so why don't you explain to me now how my eyes GOT USED to my own headlights?

Everytime my Headlights are turned on, and since the light output is always constant (forget the bulbs do become dimmer over time for this discussion), then my eyes will just re-adjust to the same state as it does on the first day I bought the car (which I've already mentioned) as it is on the last day I drive the car. So one could conclude that your theory is unfortunately not correct.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

I would be willing to bet that if you pulled up next to another accord euro, you'd be trying to figure out why his hids were so much brighter than yours..

You're wrong again. Everytime I pull up next to another Euro Accord Luxury side-by-side, or sometimes when they pull up beside me without me knowing at first, what I'm thinking is why are our HID's dimmer than so many other HID equipped cars (bar the Mercedes or RX-8s).

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

Having compared the projector output side by side, I can tell you that the euro projectors output a lot more light than the e46 ones.
Most of the mercedes lights use the E55 projectors, which are about the worst bixenons available.
I'll agree the euro projectors aren't the best out there, but they certainly top the e46 units. Also depends on where you're comparing the brightness of the lights. Directly in front of the car? 500 feet away? To the sides? etc The fact that you say the 330 lights were brighter and yellower suggests that your euro bulbs have colorshifted. The euro and the 330 use the same color temp bulbs, and as they colorshift, they will move towards the blue side of the color spectrum, and lose some intensity in light.

I have said numerous times, please stop being indulged in the projector units only. There is definitely more than that in headlight design, such as how that projector is located inside the headlight casing, the design of the whole headlight assembly, where the headlight sits on the car, how high the car is etc. When you compared the projectors side by side, were they both hooked up onto a running car and compared in a real life situation? Or was it like one of the popular tests that so called HID aficionados do where the projectors are connected temporarily and then shone onto a wall to see the light spread pattern, which in reality doesn't reflect the real life situation? I certainly don't drive infront of a wall the majority of times... Not to mention as said above, the same projector sitting in another headlight casing will actually have vastly different results depending on where it sits.

I've mentioned on another thread that when I drove my friends 330ci, its difference is that its light distribution is actually more located at just the right distance as a light patch. 'Arguably' this is not what some people think is the best design but to me, it lit up the road where I wanted it to be.

And the answer is NO my HID's shouldn't have noticeable colour shifted yet it is a 2005 EURO Luxury with 15000Km on it. Yes I already know all about colour shifting into the blue spectrum just as much as you do since I've been using HIDs for a long time already, so to give you an idea, my friends 330Ci has around 70,000Km, I think it is a 2002 model. So relatively speaking his light bulbs should have been much bluer than mine, but that's actually not the issue.

Do you know why? The answer is simple. You're tuning too much into the play of words 'blue spectrum'. The oem HID light bulbs are around the 4100-4300 Kelvin Colour Temperature wise, which means they're Yellowish/White on the Colour Temperature Chart.

Even if they are colour shifting towards the blue specturm (mainly noticeable only above 6000K-8000K but starts around 5000K+ on the chart), in reality at this stage our headlights haven't even shifted passed the White Spectrum stage (around 4500-5000K) yet le alone touch the Blue zone.

As such, I notice my friend's BMW has more light and more yellow light on the ground, simply because it does shine more 'yellow/white intensity light' on it than what my Euro Accord does, which in real life terms, on the grey/black asphalt means my front area is darker and proves that my lights AREN'T bright enough... :(
30-07-2006, 01:51 AM
EuroDude

There is no way anyones eyes can adjust to HID lights shone into their eyes. The brightness is too high, quite similar to looking at the sun.

There must be a way to adjust the auto-levelers, or if thats not possible, then maybe a honda recall is required.

I saw quite a few HID bmw's and lexus' tonite, none of them bothered me. But when a euro (or an X5) comes along - its overwhelming, to the extent that everytime I get blinded by headlights, 75% of the time its a euro lux guaranteed.
30-07-2006, 02:25 AM
Omotesando

EuroDude, when my friends 330ci turns on his HID headlights, after few few seconds, the auto-leveller usually adjusts it downwards a lot to the extent that I notice it.

Perhaps SAXMAN is right in the part where he says I should think of the Euro Lux HID headlights as being bright or not in terms of how far away and from where? Since it is producing too much glare the way it is setup and with the auto-leveling system (not performing well?), but not enough light on the road itself for my preference - somewhere along the line, something might be wrong and hopefully could be adjusted!
30-07-2006, 05:57 AM
saxman

When you're behind the wheel, your eyes adjust for x amount of light coming from your car. When you pull up beside another vehicle, and there's suddenly twice the light, said extra light seems a lot brighter. The same concept can be said for those that run fog lights with their headlights. A lot of people will put fog lights on their car that provide A LOT of illumination directly in front of the vehicle. When you do this, the extra light in front of you actually causes you to lose vision at distance. It seems brighter, but in actuality, you're seeing less. The euro projectors don't have the most forground illumination compared to some projectors... because it doesn't help the driver see better with a ton of light directly in front of the vehicle. May seem brighter, but it really isn't. The light you're getting with the euro projectors is further out and in a wider beam, causing much better road illumination, but yah, it may not be brighter directly in front of the car.

As to why the bmw lights are more yellow, I really can't say. Only thing that makes sense is the color shift. Entirely possible that your friend with the bmw does a lot of day driving, and you do a lot more night driving, etc.
30-07-2006, 11:10 AM
LXRY

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

When you're behind the wheel, your eyes adjust for x amount of light coming from your car. When you pull up beside another vehicle, and there's suddenly twice the light, said extra light seems a lot brighter. The same concept can be said for those that run fog lights with their headlights. A lot of people will put fog lights on their car that provide A LOT of illumination directly in front of the vehicle. When you do this, the extra light in front of you actually causes you to lose vision at distance. It seems brighter, but in actuality, you're seeing less. The euro projectors don't have the most forground illumination compared to some projectors... because it doesn't help the driver see better with a ton of light directly in front of the vehicle. May seem brighter, but it really isn't. The light you're getting with the euro projectors is further out and in a wider beam, causing much better road illumination, but yah, it may not be brighter directly in front of the car.

As to why the bmw lights are more yellow, I really can't say. Only thing that makes sense is the color shift. Entirely possible that your friend with the bmw does a lot of day driving, and you do a lot more night driving, etc.

Yes saxman my lights do have a wider beam, lights up both left and right sides aswell...and the road AHEAD
30-07-2006, 06:12 PM
Omotesando

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

When you're behind the wheel, your eyes adjust for x amount of light coming from your car. When you pull up beside another vehicle, and there's suddenly twice the light, said extra light seems a lot brighter..

No. Still doesn't work that way.
When I pull up or another car pull ups beside me, yes there is more light and my eyes will adjust to that. But you are forgetting something. When that physically happens, my eyes will also change my perception of my OWN headlights to exactly the SAME DEGREE. Which means I'm still making a very accurate comparison of my own car and the next car's headlights illumination intensity.

Anyway, its not only whilst driving either that I make comparisons. Sometimes when I'm walking in the streets at night, inevitable you see a ubiquitous Euro Luxury line up with another car. And you'll see that its HID's aren't as bright as some on the road (perhaps you're right, its more focused away rather than infront). In fact I'm surprised sometimes when other cars with Reflective Based Halongen setups aren't far off my car's illuminosity (but these are rare obviously).

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

The same concept can be said for those that run fog lights with their headlights. A lot of people will put fog lights on their car that provide A LOT of illumination directly in front of the vehicle. When you do this, the extra light in front of you actually causes you to lose vision at distance. It seems brighter, but in actuality, you're seeing less. The euro projectors don't have the most forground illumination compared to some projectors... because it doesn't help the driver see better with a ton of light directly in front of the vehicle. May seem brighter, but it really isn't. The light you're getting with the euro projectors is further out and in a wider beam, causing much better road illumination, but yah, it may not be brighter directly in front of the car.

This sounds more correct, but then it is a case-by-case installation scenario.
If you shine a torch at yourself at night or have it reflected on a surface back 'towards' your face's direction - obviously you will get blinded and can't see far away enough due to the GLARE.

But your foglights or headlights or combination actually point forward and that's why headlights blind others, not yourself. Granted if the road surface is really rough, then a small proportion of the light shone forward onto the road asphalt might reflect back. But as long as the headlights don't actually light up the road to the extent that its producing stupid GLARE back from the road surface onto yourself, then it wouldn't whitewash your own eyes to the extent you describe.

You mention 'lose vision at distance' but in reality how far away is this distance located? It might affect your long distance vision 400 or 500m away but a night driver wouldn't be worried about hitting an obstacle a few hundred metres away. Personally I care much more about the next 10m-39m when travelling at 50kph-100kph because that is the braking distance I require at that speed to avoid hitting obstacles on the road.

Quote:

Originally Posted by saxman

As to why the bmw lights are more yellow, I really can't say. Only thing that makes sense is the color shift. Entirely possible that your friend with the bmw does a lot of day driving, and you do a lot more night driving, etc.

The only thing that makes sense is what I already explained to you above. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH COLOUR SHIFT AS EXPLAINED.

Day time driving and night time driving difference? He has 70,000KM and I have 15,000Km. So according to your 'speculation' I drive 4.67 times night time driving that he does, and that still means my HID's colour shift would be at the same rate as his and thus is still the same colour. So to see a real colour difference I'll probably have to have many times more. DOES THAT SEEM LIKE A FAIR ASSUMPTION TO YOU STILL?

If you like making bold assumptions how about I make one for you - perhaps his Bulbs are different from my brand, so mine colour-shift faster?

But the answer is no. My headlights are still yellowish/white, hasn't passed thru the White Spectrum as explained before and let alone into the Blue spectrum. Its only a 15,000Km car not a 120,000Km BMW 5 series. The difference as I've explained is simple. The road surface is dark. The headlights are yellow/white on both. The car which shines more light onto the road, will appear more yellow. Although I do agree with you that its possible some of my lights partly due to Optics design and partly due to Headlight design, might be thrown further away into some distance. On this subjective matter, I actually prefer more light closer, because I drive more comfortably in my friends E46. The same projector in another vehicle however, might work much better!
31-07-2006, 04:04 PM
CIGXM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXRY

CIGXM..... I'm in the country.....Open roads, I dont even use the high beams anymore, lol, thats how good they are.

That good, eh?

Excellent.:thumbsup: