DIY MSD install on a Honda Civic

Disclaimer: The following is provided as a GUIDE ONLY, and neither myself nor Ozhonda take any responsibility for the outcomes of someone else doing the following. You follow these steps at your own risk!

This is a very simple install, only takes about 1/2 to 1 hour to do.

great upgrade for turbo cars or any other application where an improved Ignition system is required.


Aim: more powerfull Ignition system

theory of MSD Ignition ( taken from MSD manual )

Capacitive Discharge

the MSD 6 series units feature capacative discharge, most regular ( Honda ) ignition systems use a Inductive Ignition system. In an Inductive Ignition system the coil must store and step up the voltage to maximum strength in between each firing. At higher RPM since there is less time to charge the coil to full capacity, the voltage fall short of reaching maximum energy which results in a loss of power or top end missfire. MSD featurs a capacitor which is quicly charged ( with in 1 millisecond ) with 460 to 480 volts and stores it until the ignition is triggerd. With Capacative Discharge design, the voltage to the coil is always at full charge, even at high RPM.


Multiple Spark

the MSD 6 series produces full power muliple sparks for each firing of each cylinder. The number of multiple sparks decreases as engine RPM increaces. however the spark series always lasts for 20deg of crankshaft revolutions. Above 3000 rpm there is simply not enough time to fire the plug more than once, so there is only one powerfull spark





Required:
- MSD unit
- soldering Iron
- solder
- Phillips head screw driver
- conduit
- hookup wire
- electrical tape
- cable ties

OPTIONAL ( but recomended )

- external MSD Coil
- Prelude Distributor cap ( off a F22B or H22A )


engine bay with out MSD

http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD001.jpg




Step: 1

- Install the Coil to the car, mount it to the body. I undid a bolt that holds the upper suspention arm on and put the bolt through the coil mount and put the bolt back in. Perfect location and I didnt have to drill into the shock tower.


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD005.jpg


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD004.jpg


STEP 2

mount the MSD control Unit to the body of the car. ( see bellow )



http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD002.jpg




The 6 series MSD Units have 9 or so wires coming out of them.

- two heavy black and red wires ( red arrow above ) go to the battery via a fues

- orange and black wire ( green arrow ) go to MSD coil

- red and white wire ( blue arrow ) go to Honda Dizzy

- brown arrow points to the tacho pic up, - not used

- magnetic pickup wire also not used


STEP 3

wire up the MSD unit

- connect the thick black wire to the battery Negative terminal
- connect the thick red wire to the battery positive terminal, but make sure you use a minimum 15A fues before the terminal.

this bad boy is rated at 10A @ 10 000rpm

- connect the orange wire to the MSD coil ( + ) side
- connect the black wire to the MSD coil ( - ) side

yellow arrow in bellow pic


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD006.jpg



STEP 4

undo the 3x 8mm head bolts that hold the distributor cap on, ( red arrows in pic above )


now you have to turn the engine over to line up the rotor button in the dizzy in the access area so you can undo the phillips head screw that locks it on


see pic bellow


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD012.jpg

undo the screw and remove the rotor button, then the cover,

undo the 2 screws that hold the wires on the coil,

undo the two screws that hold the coil to the dizzy and remove the coil

see bellow pic


STEP 5

wire the MSD to the Honda Dizzy,

- connect the MSD white wire to the white/blue wire that was going to the coil. ( - ) I just solder it onto the connector.

- connect the MSD red wire to the black/yellow wire that was going to the coil ( + ) as above just solder it to the connecotr.


the MSD wires wernt long enough so I added some length to them.

http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD009.jpg



STEP 6

wrap up the connections individually with electrical tape and then both of the connections together, as shown in the pic bellow, use cable ties to hold the wires to the body of the dizzy and route the wires to the bottom of the dizzy.


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD010.jpg





Step 7


with the wires that are ment to go to the MSD unit at the bottom of the dizzy, I used a razor to cut some rubber away from the seal where the main loom enters the dizzy. Only remove enough rubber to allow the MSD wires not to get crushed by the cap. ( see blue arrow above )

this is better than drilling a hole in the dizzy cap to pass the wires through.


put the cover back in place and fit the rotor button, put the screw back in


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD013.jpg



make sure your wires are nicely routed


STEP 8


fit the F22B / H22A distributor cap onto the Dizzy making sure you dont damage any of the wires, with the MSD wires in place ( on the rubber part ) tighten down the cap.


STEP 9


unplug the leads 1 at a time and plug them onto the new cap. dont mess up the firing order, ( 1342 ) or you will be their for ever try ing to get it right.

change leads if nessasary to the MSD leads. ( they kick ass )

fit a coil lead from the cap coil outlet to the coil ( see yellow arrow in bellow pic )


http://ecu-man.com/diy/msd/B16A2-MSD019.jpg


make sure the MSD unit is set to 4 cyl ( red and blue loop cut in hole on the side of the unit )


and your done

check everything over for correct polarity and good connection and start her up.

your good to go










Disclaimer: The following is provided as a GUIDE ONLY, and neither myself nor Ozhonda take any responsibility for the outcomes of someone else doing the following. You follow these steps at your own risk!

what does the control unit do ?
i dont have on of those ?

very nice....good write-up!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by claymore

Very good write-up as usual. For us noobies why do you need to convert to the F22/H22a cap?

I tried but.... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ECU-MAN again."

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the normal b/d series cap doesnt have a spark plug input, thats why you need the prelude cap.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MrJDMCivic

the normal b/d series cap doesnt have a spark plug input, thats why you need the prelude cap.

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...or you can use the aftermarket cap that usually comes with the MSD kit to suit your dizzy type. Or atleast it is an option to use it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by claymore

Very good write-up as usual. For us noobies why do you need to convert to the F22/H22a cap?

I tried but.... "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ECU-MAN again."

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civic dizzy caps dont support external coil as civics have internal coil.

prelude F and H engines do, thats why I used a Prelude H22A dizzy cap

Nice write up :).

Just curious, can a noticable difference be felt after having installed a unit like this or does it work more on a mechanical side?

this is only an upgrade of "smoothness" apparently...OR if your stock coil has shat itself ( hondas get hot with the internal coil and it melts quite easily)

well done again, soo tempting just wish i had the cash! anyway good stuff yet again another rep point... i think the ozhonda server will overload from how many diy and pq u have!

Quote:

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"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ECU-MAN again."

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har har har thats pimp hahahaha i thought that was the case, was thinking before not another one for ecu-man! but u deserve it well done.

thanks Guys

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FR33K

what does the control unit do ?
i dont have on of those ?

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your car wont have one of those units, you have to purchase it,

the unit stores the charge required to collaps the coil muliple times in a very short period of time with a bohemuth spark.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Zdster

Nice write up :).

Just curious, can a noticable difference be felt after having installed a unit like this or does it work more on a mechanical side?

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hard to say as this car had alot of upgrads done at one time,

in my old school days, on V8 LPG cars, it was noticable,

dont realy have any before and after Dyno results.

These MSD units are JUNK.
Completely unneccesary for a stock or modified Honda.

All this install managed to achieve in the above car was a MASSIVE requirement to advance almost 20degrees timing at and after PEAK torque, whereas the same result could've been achieved with the stock ignition with approx 5deg timing.

Ask Australia's top drag team what they use..... it aint one of these.

offtopic but in agreeance to above - ive seen most top honda's at the 1/4 and track racing , all using stock ignition/leads etc.

Nice writeup John again John :thumbsup:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

offtopic but in agreeance to above - ive seen most top honda's at the 1/4 and track racing , all using stock ignition/leads etc.

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stock ignitions systems are good and work well,

the OEM coil has been know to fail unnecessarily, the OEM leads are better than alot of aftermarket leads,

MSD leads are very good quality as well, they dont use the same conductive matrial as normal leads.

like I said on the 1st post, im not sure if it made a difference on this car, would of been nice to have before and after Dyno results.

I have got the MSD 6A series with the Blaster SS coil its a square one compared to the typical round one
I was recommended this one for my application
as seen here

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b164/skremnLS/msd.jpg

I mounted the MSD unit under the dash so thats why you cant see it anywhere

I also used the h22a cap combined with 8mm top gun leads (red)

The reson for me getting the MSD unit is that at high rpm 7K onwards the car wouldnt perform at its best when constantly being reved out for a continuious amout of time and getting hot
it would have a very slight missfire almost feels like weak spark

I firstly tried the external coil, the new leads and new plugs but that didnt help much
once I installed the MSD 6A unit I noticed a more consistant rpm at top end
the car no longer had that slight missifre that was holding it back

so in my car it was worth every cent

It took me about 3+ hrs to install I had the msd unit under the dash and very tidy/hidden wireing

The MSD unit interfired with my alarms siren so it had to be relocated and have a constant power supply from the battery with any other positive power supply point it would pick up interferance and make a constant whinning noise from the siren
I ended up redoing all the wires for the unit and rereouted them but it didnt make a differance...

ahh love your writeups ECU-MAN, especially when the works done on Vut's civic...
Now we all know how he pulled 225kw's hahaha

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dfekm3

ahh love your writeups ECU-MAN, especially when the works done on Vut's civic...
Now we all know how he pulled 225kw's hahaha

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yeah, with PROECU thats how.

would've done more without the MSD!

AFAIK vut's civic was tuned by ProECU which is the reason for the great result

final warning to all

any more spamming in this thread will result in a BAN

keep it to the lounge

great write up.

everything makes perfect sense now. Also explains why the non-oem dizzy cap that came with the kit had the nipple in the icm wiring area.

i'd love to give you another rep point but i get that share the love around message....

Just wan't to add to this... slightly irrelevant though since this DIY includes the MSD 6A multi discharger...

I Installed the Blaster SS coil as is.... it's weaksauce!!! Slight misfires on load with 1.5mm plug gap... runs perfect on 1.3mm though... oh and this is on a B16A2.


Thanks again for this DIY ecu-man... helped alot! Was trying to figure out the wiring inside of mine in relation to your diagrams and realised you removed the internal coil... then i realised the polarity of wires was imprinted on the internal coil heheheh

just want to add to this again.. not sure that it would have mattered...

After upgrading to VISION 10mm triple core leads i upped the gap on the ngk iridiums to a full 2mm and all runs sweet!!! and still only on an aftermarket coil (Crane Cams LX91)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ProECU

These MSD units are JUNK.

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I totally agree... I didn't even realise they made them any more. I used to fix them Back In The Day, and they were not very well made, certainly much worse than anything Honda has made in the last 30 years.

MSD units may have been a step up compared to the points ignition on your '72 Hemi, but they are totally pointless on anything modern.

Yet another pointless mod that only makes your car worse...

^^^what was wrong with them and what needed fixing on what units?

* They are poorly made
* They don't do anything that any other "High Energy" system does when above 3000RPM
* People putting them in cars do terrible sub-par sub-OEM work that’s not water-proof and will only cause grief for the car owner long term.

Every modern ignition is "high energy" these days. the current into the coil is regulated electronically, rather than with a ballast resistor so that the coil is charged very quickly and then the current is turned off to stop the coil heating up too much. CDI doesn’t achieve anything usefully better than this.

And, the internet has voted -

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=why+msd+sucks

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=why+msd+rocks

If you were serious about making some marginal improvment to a car such as this you would put in an aftermrket ECU that can drive a coil-pack and get rid of the distributor.

hmm was looking at doing this before but chickened out cos i couldn't be bothered pulling out the OEM coil.

Might look into this again, thanks for the neat write-up

i think if u look at the kit i have bought


the only reason i am changing mine to external coil is the note fact given previously that the factory coil can just die in the ass... and ive worked my problem to be with the coil.

however i have a blaster coil, converted dizzy cover, and leads

if u look a the wiring diagrams of ur dizzys (in the b18a anyways) the dizzy has a built in ballast resistor, of .8ohms
this would stop overheating of the coil.

as for the non waterproof wires im sure there is something that can be done to adjust this. maybe some sikaflex or gasket goo