Love for the Type-S

So i've been lurking for a few days... and as a newbie (both here and with my honda ownership) haven't really found much love for the 2005+ Type S on ozhonda. Fair play in the argument of it being tagged some sort of a 'softer' version of the Type R. Irrelevent of this claim, i wanted to share my love for the pocket-sized beast i recently picked up. The ride, the handling, the speed, the gearbox, the fuel efficiency, the space, the interior build (dispite it's lack of gadgetry) and the leather make for a good feeling. I've not yet modded the car in any way shape or form... and have a few ideas/plans (some based on ozohonda posts) but I think the stock car is a good basis.

I'd also like to invite anyone who owns a Type-S to share their love (photos)... issues... likes... and dislikes.



Also, I found this on the jap mugen site the other day. If anyone knows somewhere in aus that imports mugen and other jap parts/exterior bits... a link/number would be much appriciated.

Hey man, theres no doubt that the Type S is a nice car and I certainly wouldnt mind if one appeared in the driveway. Point of the matter is the car that it replaces doesnt quite live up to the hype of previous type R models. Certainly the removal of Recaros or any 'real' race seats was a dissapointment for me, and some of the interior styling is debatable. Theres no denying that the engine/gearbox etc is still A grade. Its just the purists that are screaming for blood cos its not what they wanted.

I think that the problem lies in the heart of type R lovers who want a hardcore track car as the DC2R was. The Type S is a great car but ppl give it a lot of crap due to the fact its not what they wanted the next type R to be. I think its a case of mistaken identity in terms of the type R stigma thats attached to it. Just my opinion

Saying that tho, i think its a nice car. Congrats on the purchase, shes a good looking machine IMO

In the end it comes down to what you want out of a car I think. I also own a dc5s and it's great for my needs.

My drive to and from work is 1 hour each way so a not so harshe suspension and enough sound deadining is good for me.

Big boot and rear seats are also very useful as I take passengers and have need for a boot.

Fuel economy is great and if I drive like a grandma i can get at best 7.2L per 100km (i do a lot of highway driving).

What i don't like:
- would prefer better gripping seats (i'm not that fat)
- not that torquey down low (vtec engine, what do you expect?)
- car is quite high. 17inch wheels look small in those arches.

If Honda Australia brought in both the type R (real one: 162kw engine, brembos, etc) and type S (current), would I have bought a type R? I would have liked one and I think it'd be awesome. Would it have been as suitable for me? probably not.

Want a racy kart-like car that's bang for your buck? clio 182 cup. awesome drive. But could you live with it's styling and possibilty it won't have the reliability a Honda has?

Want a faster car than the integras? get a car with a more flexible engine. (face it, stock type r's and type s's aren't really that fast compared to wrx's, s15's, commodore ss's, v6 camry sportivos, etc)

In the end i still like the type s as a daily driver which still has enough grunt to keep people on their toes and has a sporty feel. And I'd still choose it over a 2nd hand wrx or s15. But that's me.

Good buy The_RA ;)

I think the S > R for the more daily appeal and less hardcore performance look, but more of a classy and VIP feel. Does that make sense?

The lower back support in the stocks seats are average for long journey's so the recaro's would be nice... but i understand the missing feeling for the Type R nuts. I don't see the point in comparing it to a (whowantstobeseenoradmitdrivinga) wrx, a rubbish holden or an ugly toyota.

I've got the S, but I do think Honda Australia made the mistake of taking the R out of the market. There's room for both models.
I really think they should have marketed it like in Japan just having the Luxurious Type S and JDM racer Type R and give the Lux model the ar5e.

Now that I'm older, I prefer the practicality of the S.

Yeah I agree RyDC5S.

One thing has has bugged me is honda's lack of support for the aus size number plates... is there a thread about that somewhere? The only size front number plate bracket thing honda has is made for the jap plates and useless for the standard thin/long front plates we have here.

As an owner of a Type S, I found that the car met my requirements for a daily driven sports car. Most peoples gripes with it was that it lost recaros etc from the previous dc5r. Well personally I drive in peak hour traffic ever day and found the recaros (had dc2r recaros in my em1) a little uncomfortable after awhile (although the added support is much better for hard driving) While it did loose some items, it also gained some. Standard climate control, standard sunroof, 17's etc. The price is also a several grand cheaper (aftermarket suspension and bride seat anyone??) My point being, there is plenty of love for the Type S. I'm not here to say one is better than the other, as you could point out the pro's and con's of each tell you were blue in the face, quiet simply they are aimed at two different markets, and for good reason. Many owners of the R simply think there is no market for a car like the S, when simply there is. My 2 cents

By the way congrats on the new purchase.

isnt it illegal to replace the seats as they have the side airbags?

I think the next biggest thing the TypeS is missing is the LSD. If it had an LSD then A type S would be my next purchase. Since it doesnt i think i'll go for a typeR.

i love mine =p it's not fast, but it looks hotter than a wrx lol

missing the recaros, lsd and brembos, everything else such as exhaust and suspension ur prolly gonna mod anywyaz =)

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Originally Posted by 05dc5S

it's not fast, but it looks hotter than a wrx lol

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it's not really that slow. if you get beaten by a wrx then juts remeber the extra fuel/insurance/servicing costs that he'll be paying :D

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Originally Posted by 05dc5S

i love mine =p it's not fast, but it looks hotter than a wrx lol

missing the recaros, lsd and brembos, everything else such as exhaust and suspension ur prolly gonna mod anywyaz =)

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I so reckon.
Kieran hurry up and get your lip. :thumbsup:

I rode of my Type S in october '05 after getting it for 2 weeks. Head on collison with another car both going 60km/hr. I didn't sleep much for few days straight and fell asleep while driving :(


Sold the trashed up car for 5k tho - front full smashed, interior side panels, rims etc r ok.


I luved the car, especially if u go for magnesium grey. Woah! So sexy.

Damn sad to hear Hyde.. only 2 weeks geeeez. U had insurance for it right?

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Originally Posted by Felix

I think the next biggest thing the TypeS is missing is the LSD. If it had an LSD then A type S would be my next purchase. Since it doesnt i think i'll go for a typeR.

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funny how people say this ^^^^^^^^ its like an LSD would give you an extra 100kw or something LOL!

but The_RA I own a magnesium silver type S as well, mate all I can say is it is everything I want :D tomorrow its getting new shoes.. can't wait to post pics :D heheheee

Nice car. who cares if u get beaten by a WRX. remember most WRXs out there are modded and ur car is stock. :)

btw wondering wot are the main diff between the Type R and Type S? i know the specs just wondering if anyone whos driven both of them can give some their impressions of them.

Guys, keep your replies on topic please.

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Originally Posted by _CiVIC_

funny how people say this ^^^^^^^^ its like an LSD would give you an extra 100kw or something LOL!

but The_RA I own a magnesium silver type S as well, mate all I can say is it is everything I want :D tomorrow its getting new shoes.. can't wait to post pics :D heheheee

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Yep.

People talk like LSD's are going to shave off significant amount of seconds with cornering performance.

You just have to read that article in Motor when they compared the Type R (both DC2/5) and the Type S.

Not much difference considering the Type S has greater weight and no LSD.

I got insurance but was under influence of alcohol :( had to pay for other guy's camry too (10k). Gonna get my license bak october this yr :D Might wait for the Euro type R civic b4 i buy a car. Too bad the Type S doesnt had LSD or i'd buy it again :)

I wanted a Type S. They are still nice inside compared to other cars. I've seen my fair share of Type S's give people BIG SHOCKS as well. Saw a tricked up one own the hell out of a GTS Monaro from 0 - god knows what speed...they vanished quickly with the type S 3 cars ahead of it. Didn't sound very stock though haha.

I agree...where's the love!!!

lsd definitely makes a diff when accelerating hard out of tight corners or hairpins. on the street this would include accelerating hard out of 90 degree corners or even roundabouts when the inside front tyre lights up. if u havent experienced this on your type-s u prolly havent driven it hard enough =p

most corners on a track are higher speed non hairpin turns hence an lsd prolly wont give u much of a benefit on a stock car unless u had really crappy tyres

having said that, i think if u had good/sticky enough tyres for the amount of power u have, lsd isnt really neccesary =D

Baz: please organise group buy for mugen front lip ;)

Don't forget, the Type R market typically leave there cars stock, which is why they demand it to be better off the shelt. Not trying to cast a stereotype, but both in DC2 and DC5 era's, I know myself personally would still chose a Type S now over the Type R (if it existed) and use the money different to outdo the ITR and improve it in areas which I thought even stock, it didn't do well. Same reason why I got the VTI-R now and chop stock ITR's all day every day down the 1/4 mile and track. That, and I still have money left over from the $10,000 dollar difference between the DC2 and DC2R.

I like nothing more than a highly modified ITR though.

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Originally Posted by 05dc5S

lsd definitely makes a diff when accelerating hard out of tight corners or hairpins. on the street this would include accelerating hard out of 90 degree corners or even roundabouts when the inside front tyre lights up. if u havent experienced this on your type-s u prolly havent driven it hard enough =p

most corners on a track are higher speed non hairpin turns hence an lsd prolly wont give u much of a benefit on a stock car unless u had really crappy tyres

having said that, i think if u had good/sticky enough tyres for the amount of power u have, lsd isnt really neccesary =D

Baz: please organise group buy for mugen front lip ;)

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request to post pics of your car!! :D

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Originally Posted by Hullabaloo

Want a faster car than the integras? get a car with a more flexible engine. (face it, stock type r's and type s's aren't really that fast compared to wrx's, s15's, commodore ss's, v6 camry sportivos, etc)

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Is that a typo? And what is the context of "fast" - straight line to 100kph, 1/4, around corners, etc.

Point to point the type S is very capable.

Haha thats funny. Might as well bring in the Magnas :D

K lets all drive camry's.

nchan - don't do that sort of thing please. You can see what this thread is about and it isn't pulleys. Do a search first - if you can't find your answer then start a new thread.

Thanks

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Originally Posted by yfin

Is that a typo? And what is the context of "fast" - straight line to 100kph, 1/4, around corners, etc.

Point to point the type S is very capable.

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ok, true, i didn't specify how. twisty stuff type s is great. was thinking more in terms of standing starts straight line. Don't all get me wrong. I think the type s is a great car and would still choose one over a wrx, ss commodore, or camry sportivo. I wouldn't own one if i didn't think it was a crap car.

for those who have also driven dc2r's, do you like how the 'vtec engagement' isn't as obvious as dc2's?

In regards to numberplate holders, can you buy ones to fit the NSW plates?

hullabaloo, honda don't provide front number plate holder's apart from the stock size (which is for the more square shaped jap plates). One guy at honda siad most people mount it in the grill part but i took off the holder, screwed one corner of the plate into the current hole and use some strong double sided tape to fix it to the front skirt. (pictured) it's a temporary fix really... but i've not had time to do anything else about it.

if anyone knows of better ways to attached the front plate please let us know.

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Originally Posted by Hullabaloo

ok, true, i didn't specify how. twisty stuff type s is great. was thinking more in terms of standing starts straight line. Don't all get me wrong. I think the type s is a great car and would still choose one over a wrx, ss commodore, or camry sportivo. I wouldn't own one if i didn't think it was a crap car.

for those who have also driven dc2r's, do you like how the 'vtec engagement' isn't as obvious as dc2's?

In regards to numberplate holders, can you buy ones to fit the NSW plates?

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I think you've lost the plot a bit.

1) Camry Sportivo's are slow as fcuk!
2) DC2R engagement sounds a lot more aggressive than the DC2 - (also, this has nothing to do with love for the DC5S)
3) Number plate holders, please start a new thread for ANY off topic enquiries.

Thank you.

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Originally Posted by coolitz

People talk like LSD's are going to shave off significant amount of seconds with cornering performance.

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You ever driven hard out of a sharp corner in a FWD car that has an LSD, and then done the same thing in a car that doesnt have an LSD.
Try it, u'll feel the difference!. Ohh and then try launchs!

As to race track LSD differences. It depends on the track, an LSD wont make much difference on a fast track with long corners, but on a tight track with sharp corners an LSD WILL MAKE a huge difference.!!!

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Originally Posted by Hullabaloo

I

Want a faster car than the integras? get a car with a more flexible engine. (face it, stock type r's and type s's aren't really that fast compared to wrx's, s15's, commodore ss's, v6 camry sportivos, etc)

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WHAT THE? A DC5S is about the same or quicker (depending on driver) over a standard WRX, Camry sportivo, AND s15's.... and slightly older SS's..

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Originally Posted by yfin

Point to point the type S is very capable.

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Somehow that point is being lost.

Because it ain't a Type R.

I love my 05 Type S, it look nice and clean.
Its comfortable, and it go and stop well... Its got all the requirements that I need for a daily driven sports car.... I don't RACE everyday.. so I don't need RECAROS, LSD, Brembos or harder suspension..

There is 4 problems with my TYPE S.
1. Too quiet. So PowerGetter cat back exhaust fitted after it traveled 300km. I just need a bit more sporty sound.(Problem fix)
2. Noise from left side suspension when parking. So I took it back to HONDA and they changed a new suspension.(Problem fix)
3. Why a such nice and clean looking sports car didn't come with HID? I DIY and fitted one in.(Problem fix)
4. Plastic noise from near windscreen air-con vent when drive on rough suface road.(Problem remain)

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Originally Posted by Hullabaloo

for those who have also driven dc2r's, do you like how the 'vtec engagement' isn't as obvious as dc2's?

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sorry, bad wording. let me rephrase
For those who have also driven dc2r's, do you like how the 'vtec engagement' is more subtle/less aggressive/more refined in the dc5s compared to the dc2r?

^ haha get a CAI for your S and you will have to rephrase again ;)

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Originally Posted by 05dc5S

^ haha get a CAI for your S and you will have to rephrase again ;)

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ahahah yes so true! k20's with CAI are WILD coming onto vtec!

What CAI have you got fellas?

I was thinking of getting Injen ones fitted at a later point.

well i've had the previlage of having both cars at my disposal for almost a year now. Once you've been in the two cars for long enough (Type R, Type S). On street it really doesn't feel any different.

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Originally Posted by RyDC5S

What CAI have you got fellas?

I was thinking of getting Injen ones fitted at a later point.

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Injen... good mod for the $$ , tho im thinkin of switchin to gruppeM :p

I like the new S. More than a DC5-R in appearance, and function too (I'm considering one as a daily). I did like my DC5R, I hated it too.

so what do you like/dislike about the S and the R?

Yeah fair call, best to explain.

DC5R first: I hated the over the top body kit. I was a little embarassed about it. My friends who are not into cars thought the massive rear wing was pretty funny too (not that what they thought really matters). I initially put Spoon lowering springs on it, and then gained a hell of a lot of axle tramping, so much so I went back to stock, then I hated the ride height so badly that I had to put them back on again, and off again, and on again!!! I didn't like the vagueness of the steering, no doubt that the car could corner, it just didn't feel like it was going to make it sometimes, it would do it, but just never felt great doing it. Steering wheel itself feels chunky, at low speeds feels great, high speed cornering felt vague (I prefer the steering feel in my old DC2R). I also wasn't a big fan of the super light gear shift either, a little strange when trying to shift fast from 2nd-3rd (then again it didn't have the jams that the DC2R has going into 1st off the lights at times).

Type-S. I'm a designer by trade, the way I see it, it's such a great facelift on the DC5R. I hated it at the start, but it's grown on me so much.

Those super refined headlights are gorgeous. Makes for a much cleaner front end, more minimal, less fussy, lighter. And the front lower lip part of the bumper is much more agressive in that it forms an angrier face, looks to be more user friendly too (always was paranoid about the DC5R's lip hitting parking stoppers).

I still HATE the "fake metal" silver painted plastic interior dash trim, why not make it real metal? Brushed aluminium, or just black like the stereo surround? But I like the idea that with the Type-S you can park it outside overnight, or anywhere fo rthat matter, and NOT WORRY about the Recaro seats being stolen.

All in all, Type-S suits my needs as a daily. It's a Type-R without the paranoia of the seats being stolen, or the boy racer, street racer, hoon, ricer image which is too often associated with Type-R's.

It looks refined, simple, elegant even. It still has that massive boot too (damn I love it, like a truck that corners this car). So for me, personally, it's Type-S FTW!

yeh at first most ppl said the lights were like camry lights.. i guess they did have a point lol but yeh theres more love for them now. i agree that it doesnt have that rice boy image, as most people think that its just a luxury car and dont realise the S actually has more power than the R. Well its gota compensate the extra weight :p those recaro's are targeted quite a lot arent they.. seems kinda sad the concept of thieves that steal seats. but havent read anyone posting up that their seats have been stolen lately, which is a good thing.

The type-S is a nice car not my cup of tea but nice, I've got a DC2 ITR but wot seventwozero is correct (1st page) as they are different cars.

I look at it both ways as a Type-R nut I'm dissapointed with the type-s, but as an average person I look at it like all integra's you can't really compare them, you've got the LS, GSi, the Type-R DC2, Type-R DC5, the DC4, and the list continues (though that is most of them i think), and each 1 has it's own pros and cons.

The main thing is do we like what we have and do we like the decision we made to get it.

Well said Mr Fox =)

i love mine even more nowwwwwwwwww ;) ever since the addition of the new goodies hahahaha:thumbsup:

The S really needs the old R spoiler. It doesn't look sporty enough without it.

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Originally Posted by IAMVTEC

The S really needs the old R spoiler. It doesn't look sporty enough without it.

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i think the whole point of the S was not too make it a race car... its a mix between class/sophistication and sport...

The over 30 crowd (usually with the big bucks) bags these spoilers. Honda wants to sell the car more towards this group.

Once again, Honda should have kept both Type R and Type S like in Japan.

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Originally Posted by Felix

You ever driven hard out of a sharp corner in a FWD car that has an LSD, and then done the same thing in a car that doesnt have an LSD.
Try it, u'll feel the difference!. Ohh and then try launchs!

As to race track LSD differences. It depends on the track, an LSD wont make much difference on a fast track with long corners, but on a tight track with sharp corners an LSD WILL MAKE a huge difference.!!!

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...........spot on buddy....................
DC2R driver now........DC2 VTiR before..............

I also own a Type S for more than a year now, I heared about DC5R before when they first released 2002, It didn't really impress me, at that time i was too attracted by the Nissan S15. I also remembered Motor magazine were saying Honda was badging the Type R because the car itself was really a TypeS in japan and their Type R were more superior etc.. Then 2005 my friend met up with me with his 2005 champion white TypeS, wow i was impressed over performance and apperance. So i went and bought a TypeS a few months after lol

My view on the TypeS, the car is great with the looks and performance, as one of the owner said in previous post, the new head lights and taillights matches the car perfectly and added the more aggressive look while still it have elegant and classy appearance. The 17" inch wheels and duck tail spoiler is also another nice improvement, i know there are DC5R owners out there digging that style right now. Only one negative thing is that the car doesnt come with HID lights as standard, being a 2005+ model it should come as stock and its making the Subaru 2006+ WRX looks more up to date than us DC5S :(
For performance, its fast and it sounds great and its definately not any slower than stock Nissan S15 and WRX and skylines accept GTR and our own DC5R, not sure about RX8 and 350Z but. One bad thing is it doesnt come with LSD as someone mentioned before, its abit tricky coming out of corners then again it can be fix with better tyres and suspension.

Overall Honda made a good upgrade for the DC5, I think its the best looking coupe under $60k at the moment, It apperently ranked 7th PCOTY or somewhere like that in 2005 or 2006. Yes Honda sure made the top model Integra look softer by badging it the TypeS, took out the high spoiler and recaro seats, but thats how marketing works. I might be wrong here but most people under 25 can't really afford a $45-47k brand new car unless ur parents are filthy rich, honda is targeting a bigger market with older age and older age tend to digg softer and classier taste.

Vupham: Yep, agree. I work with a lot of over 30s - you do appreciate luxury, practicality and refinement in a single package later on in life.

The carpark inside the building where I used to work was just full of European luxury sports coupes (Alfas, Audis, Mercs, BMW, Lotus, Jags, Aston Martins), this is where Japanese cars just look tacky.

Having said that, Honda should also develop a lightweight sports model for the younger crowd like the lightweight compacts of old. After all the Civic and the CRX made Honda a favourite with the enthusiast crowd.

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Originally Posted by RyDC5S

The over 30 crowd (usually with the big bucks) bags these spoilers. Honda wants to sell the car more towards this group.

Once again, Honda should have kept both Type R and Type S like in Japan.

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If you were over 30. Why would you buy a coupe in the first place?? Sports cars are for young people, and I maintain the type S was a step backwards in exterior design. Integra needs the spoiler to complete the look.

Bit ill-informed there.

So Type S Integra and S2000 is for the young? Honda's buyer profile for this car is mid-executive career and average age of over 30.

I've been to Honda focus groups regarding this.

Young people in general buy second hand sports cars.
Young people generally have don't have $45K+ lying around.

Anyways thats another debate for another day.

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Originally Posted by IAMVTEC

If you were over 30. Why would you buy a coupe in the first place?? Sports cars are for young people, and I maintain the type S was a step backwards in exterior design. Integra needs the spoiler to complete the look.

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umm i think most ppl who buy porshes and ferraris (2 door coupe sports cars) are over 30... over 40 for that matter, heck even over 50! so i think it is very possible that u would want to buy a type-s (coupe) if u were over 30.

more young ppl may like sports cars, but sports cars are for the not so young ppl as well:)

I agree with 05dc5S where I only see old man driving gt3 in Perth.

Some drive sti, but luxury sport cars are for ppl over 30 who got the $$$$

hi guys :wave: ,

I just want to share the love of our Type S :angel: by posting up my lastest dyno of my CWDC5S. Very happy with the result. My car surprised everyone at the dyno (it was a dyno day, quite a lot of people)

mine was the most powerful front wheels there on the day :thumbsup: .

Even beat the FTO with turbo haha...

have a video clip want to share with everyone too, but I dont know how to post it up. Could anyone help me?

http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...quereading.jpg
http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k2...werreading.jpg

I cant see the pic? Anyhow what mods do you have, any before after comparisons?

Sorry, I didnt know that I have to use photobucket to load the pix.

Currently i have toda header, buddy club spec3, and INJEN CAI. I reckon this set up give the most power to DC5.

I never done a dyno before, so can't really tell the improvement.

Nice, similar mods to what i'm looking at! One thing i really liked about the type s is the k20.. Lots of protential!

yeah.. its got alot more potential than most the other honda engines... but i guess only if ur have the $$$... parts for k series is pretty exy

Great results, if you don't mind - what kind of modifications did you end up doing for your DC5S?

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Originally Posted by RyDC5S

Great results, if you don't mind - what kind of modifications did you end up doing for your DC5S?

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I have said my mods in the previous page. :D

pics or ban: pics or ban

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Originally Posted by Tokyo_race

I have said my mods in the previous page. :D

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:zip: *lol, yeah I saw it later after I posted that reply. Cheers.

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Originally Posted by Tokyo_race

I never done a dyno before, so can't really tell the improvement.

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my stock dc5R did 107kw ATW so i would perhaps 110 kw atw for dc5s so that a pretty good imporvemant

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Originally Posted by Mattski_VTIR

Nice, similar mods to what i'm looking at! One thing i really liked about the type s is the k20.. Lots of protential!

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even if you had 10000000kw it still wouldnt go anywhere with that chassis, the fact of the matter is they're great cars but dont expect too much when it comes to performance cause afterall it is a front wheel drive which for this car means great juice crap handling.
but its incredible how a 2L NA 4cyl engine can make 200hp... :)

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Originally Posted by mj3610

even if you had 10000000kw it still wouldnt go anywhere with that chassis, the fact of the matter is they're great cars but dont expect too much when it comes to performance cause afterall it is a front wheel drive which for this car means great juice crap handling.
but its incredible how a 2L NA 4cyl engine can make 200hp... :)

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:confused: :confused: have you driven a type s/type r? sure it's not AWD or RWD so it has a bit of a handipcap but just means you need to learn to drive better to get the best out of it

love it or hate it.... Australia will not be bringing in anymore in a couple of months. :zip:

Whats happening to them?

not sure, just heard that australia isnt going to bring anymore in

From this article, it's said HONDA has announced a stop in production of integra.

this is the link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115523

HONDA only sold 3000 intgera in the last year, this would be the reason for the stop production. :o

What will that do to the 2nd hand market?

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Originally Posted by Tokyo_race

From this article, it's said HONDA has announced a stop in production of integra.

this is the link: http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do...ticleId=115523

HONDA only sold 3000 intgera in the last year, this would be the reason for the stop production. :o

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NOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

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Originally Posted by mj3610

even if you had 10000000kw it still wouldnt go anywhere with that chassis, the fact of the matter is they're great cars but dont expect too much when it comes to performance cause afterall it is a front wheel drive which for this car means great juice crap handling.
but its incredible how a 2L NA 4cyl engine can make 200hp... :)

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Sure it is FWD but with the right mods and a good driver they are still a very capable car. Its around the magic 250bhp+ mark when steering and powering the front wheels becomes trickey, not to say its not enjoyable though. I think the chassis in the S and R's can handle a little more power with out taking away from the handling to much.

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Originally Posted by Mattski_VTIR

Sure it is FWD but with the right mods and a good driver they are still a very capable car. Its around the magic 250bhp+ mark when steering and powering the front wheels becomes trickey, not to say its not enjoyable though. I think the chassis in the S and R's can handle a little more power with out taking away from the handling to much.

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gold GTi is has 220bhp and the stig spun it out last night on topgear!!!, the holden astra has abit more power and the handling was disgusting, not because they're a holden astra or a VW golf but because they're FWD, integra is a great car but probally the main reason they arent selling much is because they're FWD and got such a big price tag for what they're worth.
so for those of you that dont see the major flaw with FWD cars just take the red pill and wake up to reality.
i dont mean to put anyones car down, they're great cars but you should be open minded and be able to take unbiased criticism :)

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Originally Posted by mj3610

gold GTi is has 220bhp and the stig spun it out last night on topgear!!!, the holden astra has abit more power and the handling was disgusting, not because they're a holden astra or a VW golf but because they're FWD, integra is a great car but probally the main reason they arent selling much is because they're FWD and got such a big price tag for what they're worth.
so for those of you that dont see the major flaw with FWD cars just take the red pill and wake up to reality.
i dont mean to put anyones car down, they're great cars but you should be open minded and be able to take unbiased criticism :)

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I don't think the problem is being open minded as I'm not biased towards one platform. I agree with what your saying in that a RWD setup has less cons that a FWD. But regardless of what the platform is there's pro's and con's to each. It has been tried and proven that a front wheel drive car can be a "sports" car and sell (look at the cult status behind cars like GTI Golf, Type R, Clio etc) Are they bad cars? no, would they be better with RWD layout, Probably. My point being that FWD cars have there own charactistics that some people enjoy. And when mastered a FWD car can be a lot of fun to drive. If a car is fun to drive i dont see the wrong wheels turning as a flaw. I don't think what you were saying is criticism, more or less an opinion.