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Hey guys n gals, I just saw a pop-up advertising the upcoming 2007 Honda Legend to be released in Australia.
Its going to have a 3.5litre six cylinder producing 217kw! that's more than the mercedes benz 3.5 litre six (200kw) or Bmw's 3.0l six (190kw)!
All leather, 10 way power front drivers seat, sat-nav with camera for rear parking, 10 speaker bose hi fi with 6 stack cd in dash....
Looks sporty!
The new legend will give the Lexus Es300 a run for it's $$$$
Apparently it is running on a beta engine than the NSX...
http://ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47057
Legend is so heavy that its power to weight ratio is worse than the BMW 530i with 190kW. But it is superb value.
Test drove the Legend yesterday. It's very nice, very solid with lots of toys to play with. The doors feel heavy and the car felt very tight. It handles wonderfully, and it's fun but almost distracting watching the SHAWD indicators on the dash when gunning it thru tight corners. The 3.5 feels very progressive in its power, but you do need to boot it hard and keep the revs up for best performance. This is where the 3.0 in the Accord feels alot more responsive off the line as it is a smaller & lighter car, without the extra bulk of AWD. Is the Legend worth the extra premium over an Accord V6 Luxury? Personally I don't think so, but it is still a damn nice driving machine and if I were looking for a large luxury car for my family, the value of the Legend does beat the Germans hands down.
how long has it been since they were saying they will bring it here? 1 year?? and got delayed and delayed and finally its here and i think the look of it is not too nice but the equipments are good, just the looks there is something missing in it
It just needs more power. It still needs to rev to get its 217kw. 250+ with more torque would be better suited to its purpose.
looks sexy.. but will look even better if it was wider.
lol.
I think the power is fine. Not like owners will race it on a track. The styling is too tame and boring though for a car that costs this much.
The E-class and BMW 5 series both have good road presence whether you like the styling or not.
250's not going to happen with SOHC VTEC. LOL.Quote:
Originally Posted by 91'lude
What was the sales target for the Legend?
From the looks of things it seems to be selling very slowly.
LARGE SEGMENT ( > $80K ) - August Sales
Vehicle Units
BMW 5 Series 142
Mercedes-Benz E-Class 135
Lexus GS 69
Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 51
Audi A6 49
Mercedes-Benz R-Class 22
Jaguar S-Type 21
Volvo V70 14
Honda Legend 10
Peugeot 607 8
Saab 95 5
Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 3
Citroen C6 0
Lexus ES300 0
Volvo S80 0
On second thought, August was its first month on sale, and it wasn't a full month as well.
u got the point... and u dun see advertisements on the streets as yet for legends... and probably the dealers are JUST getting legends arrive on the yard..
so its not bad for first month when there are many other well-advertised competitors...
in my books
legends will do very well.
Its one of these cars i've been looking at as well.
Damn sexy at the back, but a little tame at the front. I wished it would be more aggressive looking.
It sure does look nice inside... and ALOT cheaper then the german cars, but how much better then the Euro/v6 Accord? is it really $25k better (50%)? hmmmz
Well for the price of the Legend, you could get 2 Euros or 2 Accords :)Quote:
Originally Posted by ant234
I'd probably get an Accord V6 Luxury over a Legend and pocket the difference. The Accord Lux is just as well equipped and from the test drive I had, I believe the Accord is quicker and more responsive.
The disappointing thing with the Legend is it's Honda Australia's flagship product, yet it doesn't have Sat Nav yet (I was told not to expect it soon and it may never work!) and no bluetooth.
Pretty disappointing when the Accord Euro Lux has Sat Nav as an option and it's now standard on the Accord Lux.
Cheers,
Georgea
i wouldnt even compare the 2! ive been drivin the V6L for a few weeks and im sick of it, id still take the euro over it, V6 and front wheel drive is shocking!Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpine
ive been driving the legend a bit now too and the more i drive it the further it leaves the V6 accod behind and the more value for money it gets.
There is sat nav as standard. They just don't have the software yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgea
meh~ i would b happy knowing tat 1/4 of the vehicles entire value is in the cf tail shaft :P
test drove one on the weekend and all i can say is that it has a very smooth honda like power delivery but it is also one heck of a quiet car....with the radio off and windows up you cant even hear the outside IE: other cars and what not..
i give it 5 stars compared to the german counter parts
it lacks take off power but when you start cornering and braking it leaves anythig for dead,very little oversteer and understeer especially when your using the steering wheel sport shift.also have you seen how clear the reverse camera is?
is it vtec?
My mums looking at getting a legend soon, anyone know more news about the Sat Nav and whether or not they are planning on having it work at some point in time!
Seems pretty bad that the Euro & Accord have it but the legend doesnt!
and yes its vtec
The Legend is doing very well. Figures for the first full month on sale.
September:
Mercedes-Benz E-Class 191
BMW 5 Series 128
Honda Legend 43
Mercedes-Benz CLS-Class 40
Lexus GS 39
Audi A6 34
Mercedes-Benz R-Class 24
Jaguar S-Type 21
Saab 95 6
Volvo V70 6
Peugeot 607 5
Alfa Romeo 166 3.0 2
Lexus ES300 1
Citroen C6 0
Volvo S80 0
It took a big chunk out of the GS' sales.
You can't compare the Accord V6 to the Legend. It belongs in the same class as the Maxima and 380GT while the Legend is competing against the likes of the Lexus ES and GS and the Europeans.
Saw a Silver one yesterday on the road, looked freakin sweet. Looks better in reality than in pics...
looks even better when u get it on a hoist :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
THat would be courtesy of the active noise cancellation feature of the Legend.Quote:
Originally Posted by amato2
Just too answer some of the question that you guys may have.
I was driving the new Legend a couple off weeks ago until the car was sold. Now i am waiting for my Platnium Silver to arrive into the dealership and once it's here that too will be registered to be driven....
All i can say is the power delivery is awesome, the car performs alot better than what it show on paper with the power to weight ratio.
It's smooth and very quite, the main aim with the Legend has always been refinement, the Euro and Accord does not even come close in terms off driving pleasure and driving experience. From the second you open the door to the second you turn the key, it's Honda showing the public of what they capable of producing. And it exceed all expectation of what you may have for the European brands.
The Sat nav has been abit off an concern for many buyer, but it also hasn't been a great task to over come this objective. Why the car doesn't have sat nav is due to software and that honda is just waiting on licensing approval for the software which all depends on the sound system supplier.
They should at least bundle in a TomTom ONE in the mean time, considering the cost of the vehicle :p
honda just got me a broschure in a big folder its a big brochure too... i got mdx already, much more nicer than this, surely my dad wont trade the mdx for this. the body shape is way too plain its not different on the road and people will mistake it oh its another honda, accord! unless they know cars they wont appreciate this more than is250 which looks alot better
Saw it at the Motorshow. I sat in most cars, including the Mercedes S class. Surprisingly, the Legend's seats and seating position was more plush and comfortable! Unfortunately, I don't think the Legend has air conditioned seats and the infrared nightvision camera that is available in the S class. (JDM Legend gets the nightvision)
Are Honda hiring General English students:
(Taken from the Honda AU website)
"Super Handling AWD".
Whats wrong with SH-AWD ?
You're a year too late. And it's not General English students. They are having Engrish students do the naming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pogi
Same with Nissan and their "Rev-Up" VQ35DE engine. LOL
The new Legend is a very impressive car.
It was launched at Oran Park and we got to test out the technologies that the car is equipped with. Still came off the track on 3 occasions pushing the SH-AWD :o
As for the sat nav - the car is fully equipped with the hardware. The mapping data and interface for the Australian market is still under development. Once this software is developed it WILL operate on the existing hardware.
Oh btw. I work for Honda Australia and that IS the latest info on the sat nav situation. Hope that clears things up for the time being.
What tyres come with the Legend? Sounds like they may be a bit crap lol
lol... 235/50R17 100W
Well when your on a track and the car isn't yours, what else are u supposed to do but hammer it :p
Dunlops SP series or something?
found an article, they comment " Nice, but not a legend" lol
http://www.drive.com.au/Editorial/Ar...ID=20343&vf=26
:honda:
They're actually Yokohama Super Advan's.
[QUOTE=pkn]The new Legend is a very impressive car.
It was launched at Oran Park and we got to test out the technologies that the car is equipped with. Still came off the track on 3 occasions pushing the SH-AWD :o
Good as the SH-AWD is, it can't overcome the laws of physics :)
I actually got mine last Thursday, 2nd of November! White with Ivory interior. I did some country "running in" over the weekend, did about 600kms driving down to Collie to watch some mates thrash around on a "Sprint Day".
In a word this car is AWSOME for the money. The motor feels strong form a standing start or low speeds, but, pulling out to overtake slower traffic that is doing about 95 kph, it's fantastic. The auto drops down instantly and the thrust it delivers is like an afterburner has just been lit :) You can really feel all those 217kw, despite the weight!
On smooth, secondary country roads it's natural gait is in the 140 to 160 kph range, and at those speeds it feels SO planted. With it's tight body control it really does flow along smoothly, cornering flat and true.
Mind you it's not perfect [what car is?] I believe tyre noise on the course aggregate roads which prevail over here in country WA is un-acceptable in an otherwise quiet car. It is most noticable when going from smooth bitumen in the town sites to the rough aggregate of the open roads and having to turn up the superb sound system 3 or 4 "notches" to be able to "hear" the music!! A word to you salesmen on this board - canvas the roads you use to roadtest this car, ensuring there are no changes of surface, because it is THAT noticable, even to average Joe.
Also the "de-contenting" of the features available overseas is disappointing, for someone like me, who knows what is available elsewhere :(
And I believe that this "de-contenting" is at the root of why we still don't have our "sat nav" programme. Overseas the car comes with an industry best voice recognition software, which is NOT availabe here, and I believe this is causing the delay in writing the software for Australia. :thumbdwn:
Driving down the road the car is not as "smooth riding" as it could be, with a very minor vibration coming through the suspension. I don't know if an out of balance tyre is to blame or not, but it is probably a function of firm bushings that give the car it's excellent handling. Have the same vibrations in my NSX, but it is acceptable in that, not so in a luxury car.
But the negatives really do pale into insignificance when you look at this car as a whole. Or take it for a quick squirt on wet and greasy roads. Can't wait to take it up to Barbagallo Raceway for some driver tuning :)
They really should sell like the proverbial, to people who want an incrediblly safe, fast cruiser, that also doubles as a true luxury car! It wont win many stop light "grand prix", but it will get you from point A to B quicker than anything on the low side of $160,000! [Luxury Cars only]
Or you could spend $140 big ones to buy an equivalently optioned BMW 530 which will give similar "driving pleasure" to the driver, but will not do anything else anywhere neally as well as the Legend. And we wont mention relaibility. Or the added safety of that brilliant AWD.
Enough of the ranting, it's time to go drive! :)
Laurie.
Nice feedback mate, how does it feel on continuous corners (twisty trails)? Does SH-AWD throw off or does it pick it up intelligently?
Is there a SH-AWD button like there is a VSA button on the euro's?
Woud be interesting to know how the car performs when SH-AWD is disabled ;)
On the Euro, VSA thinks we are all bad drivers (or all roads are covered in gravel) and takes corners way too cautiously, limiting quite alot of engine power, when we could do the corner quite safely with an extra 20% engine power (throttle).
lolz seen da news adds fo it lolz
headlights move wif ur steering wheel =D
[QUOTE=RyDC5S]Nice feedback mate, how does it feel on continuous corners (twisty trails)? Does SH-AWD throw off or does it pick it up intelligently?[/QUOTE]
The car feels smooth, and is totally composed is the best way to try and exlplain it. On applying the power just before an apex, the rear axle feels as though it is rotating or stepping out, just like an NSX. This is a function of it's overdriving the outside rear wheel. But where the NSX needs carefull throttle control, and/or smooth input from the steering wheel, the Legend's rear axle just follows the front faithfully [at least at "sane" speeds on public roads].
The car does this totally seemlessly, even in round-about "flip-flop" situations. Don't know how it would perform in tight "autokhanah" conditions, but so far it feels totally "natural" if un-naturally good.
In fact on the open roads it does actually feel like a mature, slightly overweight NSX! As if an NSX has grown old and heavy, but not bloated, and still has all the moves, but is experienced enough to know not to get itself into trouble. A bit like me I suppose :eek:
EuroDude, the SH-AWD cannot be disconnected as far as I'm aware, but if you did - it would revert to FWD.
VSA can be turned off. Have not tried it yet, I'll wait till Barbagallo for that :) But in the wet, the VSA is brilliant. Unlike other VSA's which apply only the brakes to stabalize the car, SH-AWD initally apportions the DRIVE to individual wheels to stabalize the car. It is only after this is not enough, does it apply the brakes to try and bring the car under control. [And those brakes! They feel wonderfully reassuring, fantastically powerful from speed.]
The result [so far for me] is a VSA that works so well you really must have good "car feel" [18 years of circuit racing] to even be aware it is actually activating. I'm only speaking from my point of view - I like to balance a car on the limit of adhesion, feel the tires just begining to loose their grip and trying to hold it there. this car does it for you!!
You might be able to do it better, but you would have to be very good. And it is NOT something you should be attempting to acheive on public roads. :)
Yes chunky, the inside headlight does rotate towards the corner your taking, but it is so suttle you hardly notice the "real" benefit it brings.
All in all, the "driving" technology this car has is very intuitive and really quite un-obtrusive for the most part.
EuroDude, can you imagine what the SH-AWD system in a RDX turbo-motored Euro Accord would be like? Move over Evo's and Rex's :)
Laurie.
Yep that would be freakin sweet, I read that the next euro shape will have SH-AWD. Combine that with Honda's new infinite variable VTEC K-Series (like porsche system). Doubt Honda would ever put a turbo in their accord line up though.. (except the diesel off course).
SH-AWD is not the same as VSA. VSA is a stability control program. SH-AWD is an AWD system which has both hardware and software parts. It's like asking to flick a switch to turn off the EVO's AWD. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
I know they're different :), was just wandering if its possible to disable the SH variable torque system but still keep AWD active, and compare the performance (track times) to see how much better SH-AWD system is over typical AWD setups.
When you make it a 50:50 split and compare it to other 50:50 cars, the AWD system makes almost no difference compared to other factors such as weight, power and suspension.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
Anyway, SH-AWD is like a normal clutch diff-operated system, but with the addition of variable torque split of up to 70% power and overdriving for the outer rear wheel.
yep ive seen a few videos on yourtube explaining the magnetic clutches at the rear and the speed-up mechanism on the axle to apply more speed at the rear for handling/traction.
Search www.youtube.com for "honda legend technology" or "SH-AWD"
mmm would love to see a stock Turbo Euro! How much power would it push out considering that without Turbo he Euro produces 140KW? I bet it would push past the Mazda 6 Turbo? (My mate bought one of them recently he reckons the power craps all over the Euro... but it should it is turbo the Euro isn't!)Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
If they want to stick to a 4-cylinder, 2.4L and want to make enough torque to work with SH-AWD, they will need the turbo.
I reckon SH-AWD and k23a turbo is more plausible than an SH-AWD Advanced VTEC Euro.
K23A 2.3L?
We'll have to wait and see how the Advanced VTEC K24 performs first, as in a Dyno chart comparing it to the new U.S. 160kw K24A2
Continuously variable VTEC will surely provide decent torque over the whole rev range, even more if Honda decide to pimp aggressive cams, decent headers, direct injection, high redline cutoff etc..
You can't use too aggressive cams in a k24A because if it lives above 8000rpm for too long, the piston generates too much heat on the cylinder wall.
BTW, k23a turbo is used in the RDX. 179kW (SAE). If you convert to our rating, it should be 186kW.
The BMW M6 5L V10 engine revs to 8250rpm, how come that doesnt overheat the cylinder walls? Or did BMW solve this problem by adding a massive cooling system?
The M6 5L V10 has a stroke of 75.2mm. The Euro k24a3 has a stroke of 99mm.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
At 8250 rpm, the V10 has a piston speed of 1240.8 meters/minute.
At 7300 rpm, the k24a3 has a piston speed of 1445.4 meters/minute.
The V10 has lower piston speeds than the k24a3.
Also the k24a3 has an unfavourable rod/stroke ratio.
k24a3: 1.536
k20a2: 1.616
I see. Couldnt that be solved by increasing the Bore width and decreasing the Stroke?
:thumbsup: That's right. But... Honda wanted to use the same block as the k20a. That's why the bore is the same 86mm as the k20a.Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
Thats a shame. The K24 redlining at 8500rpm could have been a 260hp+ NA beast :cool:
Destroked to 2.3L, it makes 247 hp at the wheels with a 9000rpm redline (plus the usual rod, piston, crankwork, cams, springs and head flowing).Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
That's like 290hp at the crank if it was a 15% drivetrain loss. 2.4L with the same redline would make even more.