Continuous VTEC developed by Honda [25-9-2006]

Printable View

27-09-2006, 07:31 AM
aaronng

Continuous VTEC developed by Honda [25-9-2006]

It's here! continuous VTEC!

Quote:

Originally Posted by world.honda.com

Honda Develops Advanced VTEC Engine Combining High Power and Environmental Performance

September 25, 2006–Honda Motor Co., Ltd. has further advanced its VTEC (Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control System) technology with the development of the Advanced VTEC engine, which achieves high performance along with outstanding fuel economy and lower emissions. The new engine combines continuously variable valve lift and timing control with the continuously variable phase control of VTC (Variable Timing Control). Honda plans to release a production vehicle equipped with the new engine within three years.

Advanced VTEC engine

This new system permits optimum control over intake valve lift and phase in response to driving conditions, achieving improved charging efficiency for a significant increase in torque at all engine speeds. Under low to medium load levels, the valves are set for low lift and early closure to reduce pumping losses and improve fuel economy.

In combination with optimized intake components, these advances in control technology result in world-class dynamic performance along with approximately 13%* improvement in fuel economy. The new engine is also exceptionally clean, with exhaust emissions that meet both U.S. Environmental Protection Agency LEV2-ULEV regulations and Japanese Ministry of Land, Infrastructure and Transport requirements for Low-Emission Vehicles, with emission levels 75% lower than those required by the 2005 standards (based on Honda calculations).

* Engine only, as compared to production 2.4-liter i-VTEC engine (Honda calculations)

Advanced VTEC Engine Overview
Displacement: 2.4 liters

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/406.../images/01.jpg

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/406.../images/02.jpg

http://world.honda.com/news/2006/4060925VTEC/
27-09-2006, 09:22 AM
EuroDude

Nice, so us euro owners get a free upgrade? :p

I think Ferrari or Porsche already has a continuous variable valve system dont they? Where the cams shift sideways using angled cam lobes? Honda's new system is probably very similar.
27-09-2006, 09:42 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

Nice, so us euro owners get a free upgrade? :p

I think Ferrari or Porsche already has a continuous variable valve system dont they? Where the cams shift sideways using angled cam lobes? Honda's new system is probably very similar.

Porsche's VariocamPlus uses hydraulic actuators to increase valve lift and a mechanism similar to VTC for phasing.

Ferrari uses the cam sliding technique, which I think is silly. How reliable could you make a sliding cam in a 6000rpm changeover point? And the area of contact between the cam and rollers would be much narrower compared to conventional valvetrain. They must be using exotic materials and expecting the cams to last less than 200,000km (what Ferrari exceeds 100,000km anyway)
27-09-2006, 09:53 AM
EuroDude

Do we know how it actually works? Or are they keeping that a secret for now :p
27-09-2006, 10:06 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

Do we know how it actually works? Or are they keeping that a secret for now :p

Still a secret. I guess they wanted to announce something for the petrol side along with their new diesel cat technology.
27-09-2006, 11:29 AM
EuroDude

lol fair enuf, gotta get the patents sorted first ;)

a-VTEC advanced-VTEC

ai-VTEC advanced intelligent-VTEC

ci-VTEC continuous intelligent-VTEC

or simply VTAC for VariableTimingAdvancedControl lol
27-09-2006, 11:36 AM
aaronng

Don't need the "i" as it is already in the advanced part.
27-09-2006, 03:30 PM
DreadAngel

Woah! Nice...

Nice Accord Euro...
27-09-2006, 07:27 PM
chunky

ppwwwaaaahhhhhhh fully fking hectic!!!! and it actually saves fuel i thought it woulda used up more scince its continuous
27-09-2006, 09:04 PM
panda[cRx]

emissions....boring, we want torque and power!!!
28-09-2006, 10:28 AM
RyDC5S

Quote:

Originally Posted by panda[cRx]

emissions....boring, we want torque and power!!!

^^^

Aaron: Any idea on power output/torque delivery figures yet?
28-09-2006, 11:52 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by RyDC5S

^^^

Aaron: Any idea on power output/torque delivery figures yet?

Nope, I think Honda just wanted to make an announcement alongside their diesel engine. But I suspect that this engine will be similar to when the first K series was released.... i-VTEC on the intake cams only and not for performance giving a normal power output like the k20a3.

Later down the road, they should release an engine with advanced vtec on intake and exhaust cams.
28-09-2006, 12:23 PM
EuroDude

We could probably expect performance for the single vtec cam to be around 140kw up from 125kw, and the double vtec cam at around 155kw up from 140kw
28-09-2006, 12:39 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

We could probably expect performance for the single vtec cam to be around 140kw up from 125kw, and the double vtec cam at around 155kw up from 140kw

Why would performance increase just because of advanced VTEC? All I can expect is that the changeover would be less obvious (like it isn't already discreet enough on the k24a3) and that there would be no dips in the torque curve.

Power is not made by VTEC.
28-09-2006, 01:52 PM
WhiteAP1

The 350z also has constant VVT
28-09-2006, 02:03 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteAP1

The 350z also has constant VVT

350z's VVT is just cam phasing. That's the same as VTC and Toyota's VVTi.
28-09-2006, 07:13 PM
ozR18

Honda are always coming up with new more advanced cam phasing engines, ie Vtec,i-Vtec and now Advanced Vtec .Just out of curiousity, has Honda actually won any engine awards??Not really sure

If im not mistake the BMW V10 M5 engine won the top engine awards right...and Nissan VQ family engine has been in the top 10 for 8th consecutive years.
28-09-2006, 07:49 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by ozR18

Honda are always coming up with new more advanced cam phasing engines, ie Vtec,i-Vtec and now Advanced Vtec .Just out of curiousity, has Honda actually won any engine awards??Not really sure

If im not mistake the BMW V10 M5 engine won the top engine awards right...and Nissan VQ family engine has been in the top 10 for 8th consecutive years.

Too bad there is no award for engine reliability. Honda would win that. The BMW's V10 is not that reliable as mentioned on Top Gear.
30-09-2006, 06:36 PM
CoZZm0

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronng

Too bad there is no award for engine reliability. Honda would win that. The BMW's V10 is not that reliable as mentioned on Top Gear.

what goes wrong with the V10 M5 motors? is it a common type fault?
30-09-2006, 08:46 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by CoZZm0

what goes wrong with the V10 M5 motors? is it a common type fault?

It's not common. But it does happen. Unlike honda engines where the worst thing that happens is you burn lots of oil. BMW engine problems tend to be more serious.

BMW acknowledges their problems though. The 335ci's in the US that have shot a rod out the block are having their engines replaced with new ones and even older models like the old 850ci V12 get a free replacement block even when out of warranty!
02-10-2006, 09:42 AM
BusterSonic12

sweet... advance vtec. prolly going to b in the '07 euro.
20-11-2006, 10:49 PM
tanalasta

More likely to be on the 2009 Euro in Australia than the 2007 Euro according to the current rumours. The only update we will be seeing under than the horrible mocha colour already on the market is the Diesel Euro.

It will be a completely new model before we see the brand new shape and engine. I suppose Honda is milking the current (and excellent) chassis and drivetrain for as long as they can! Longer product cycles = less money spent creating new models ;)
20-11-2006, 11:17 PM
aaronng

From all the rumours from all the TSX forums, we seem to be looking at an SH-AWD k23a turbo TSX. If that becomes the Euro, then we won't get Advanced VTEC. Anyway, on the K24A3, Advanced VTEC won't make extra power. It's limited above 5000rpm by breathing.
21-11-2006, 09:18 AM
BusterSonic12

k23a turbo?? is that unleaded?? WOW ~!!! TURBO YAYAAYYA
i hope no new euro model come out soon :P don't wanna feel like if my euro's old
23-11-2006, 08:05 AM
curik

I hope it is using direct injection and 12.5 compression ratio like the Lexus!
23-11-2006, 08:35 AM
EuroDude

12.5 :eek: hectic lol.

The new Legend V6 uses direct injection doesnt it?
I'm suprised Honda didnt use it for their K series (Euro and DC5).
23-11-2006, 10:23 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by EuroDude

12.5 :eek: hectic lol.

The new Legend V6 uses direct injection doesnt it?
I'm suprised Honda didnt use it for their K series (Euro and DC5).

Legend's V6 doesn't have direct injection. The only direct injection Honda engine is the i-VTEC I 2.0L engine used in the JDM Stream. http://www.honda.co.jp/tech/auto/eng...tec/index.html

I think the reason why Honda didn't use direct injection in the K series is because direct injection requires clean fuel. They wouldn't have been able to sell K-series equipped cars in countries such as the middle east where the fuel has a high content of sulfur.
24-11-2006, 11:31 PM
curik

but here we are! Lexus IS250, Audi RS4, BMW M5, E90 3 series, VW Golf GTI have used direct injection to get a high compression ratio and therefore efficiency and power! If you see all these engines have break the 100Nm/litre mark, unlike the honda K24 who only gets 93Nm/litre. Not really bad I guess since the K24 is I4.
25-11-2006, 10:34 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by curik

but here we are! Lexus IS250, Audi RS4, BMW M5, E90 3 series, VW Golf GTI have used direct injection to get a high compression ratio and therefore efficiency and power! If you see all these engines have break the 100Nm/litre mark, unlike the honda K24 who only gets 93Nm/litre. Not really bad I guess since the K24 is I4.

Those cars are not sold in countries that use poor quality fuels like south east asia. Anyway, direct injection is like VTEC. It's good, but you don't need it to make a good performing engine. Example, Legend's 3.5L V6 is SOHC (gasp!), regular fuel injected, requires only 91 RON and yet it makes 100 Nm/litre!
29-11-2006, 04:33 PM
IAMVTEC

So whats the point of this new continuous VTEC? Just lower emissions and better fuel economy?
29-11-2006, 06:15 PM
EuroDude

Quote:

Originally Posted by IAMVTEC

So whats the point of this new continuous VTEC? Just lower emissions and better fuel economy?

It doesnt necessarily make more peak horsepower, but it improves torque, efficiency, and smoothness over the whole rev range.

So instead of a classic VTEC engine giving you a big "kick in" at a fixed RPM like an on/off Light Switch, its more like a Volume Knob, giving you many smaller kick-ins spread over the RPM range, so to speak.