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was getting worried for the last few weeks, with funny noises from the rear
read a few threads last night and figured it's probably the waybar hitting the lca....
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachm...1&d=1163381723
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/attachm...1&d=1163381723
sorry don't know how to attach files...
sway bar hitting exhaust because right subframe has been ripped out.
soooo SAAADDD!!!!!!!
damn thats bad luck
wat size was your sway bar?
whiteline 22mm?? it's one up from stock
i've never tracked it, this is my daily driver.
you didn't use any reinforcement?
thats what I was thinking aswell dont think he did
lol stock mounting brackets ftw.
what did you do with the mounting plates that came with your swaybar?
they attach to the lca bolt, and 2 points on the subframe to avoid things like this :)
Until yesterday (after reading in forum) I had no idea there was such a problem.
I didn't instal it, had it done at a shop.
at the whiteline shop?
Its bad luck BUT it makes sense. Honda designed the subframe with the STOCK size swaybar in mind...anything thicker will prematurely tear it out.
Speak to the guys at www.whiteline.com.au and see if there is anything they can do.
did you buy the swaybars as new from whiteline?
or used?
the new ones all bundle with the mounting brackets afaik.
I had subframe tearout with my swaybar about 4 years ago, but that was apparently before whiteline knew about the weakness... i remember i was the first car to run around with their swaybar/tiebar combo.
if you bought it new from whiteline, deffinately contact them and see if they'll help you out with repairs.
I had it done all new from whiteline dealer
I'll be heading down to see them tomorrow
will keep you guys posted.
off to work now.
thanks for the info.
As everyone else has stated, it should have come with a mounting bracket like this:
http://undergroundimports.com.au/gal...10010%7E10.JPG
It sits right where the tearout occured. I would take the car back and demand they pay the costs to fix it as you are now up for an entire new rear subframe (which isnt cheap) plus welding the new piece in.
i had the same problem with my old CXI EK1.
22mm bar ripped right through. AND that WAS using the whiteline supplied bracket.
There was a thread on here a while ago that was about a heavy duty swaybar support that you may be able to attach and then weld the sub frame too for reinforcement. Just make sure that you use a GOOD welder otherwise they will create more bad than good.
Other thing to remember is to use GOOD bolts and washers.
The ones that come with the whiteline aren't exactly heavy duty and will tear out or rattle free VERY quickly.
wow even wif a reincforcement braket huh
Quote:
Originally Posted by A.G.System
i would rather break the bolts than the subframe, how about you?
shit you wouldn't think that it would actually happen so easily. I feel much better now about wasting a shit load on an ASR Reinforcement.
Let me get this straight. If you use a lower tie bar with the reinforced bracket from Whiteline all will be good?
All this talk about subframe tearing has got me paranoid now!
Yeah the whiteline bracket that they gave me cracked on the LCA bolt and had a little play in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwillz
Basically if you have a choice between a solid bracket or something that is tack welded together with plates and posts. ALWAYS go the solid bracket. It may weigh a little more but its just something else that wont break.
As for the bolts rattling out THAT was the reason the sub frame tore as bad as it did on my car. The loose bolt acted like a hacksaw and cut into the bolt hole and caused the crack to worsen.
Also the non nyloc nuts are just asking for trouble. even just replacing the nuts with nyloc ones gives you a little more piece of mind.
Woo i guess putting silicone on the end of my bolts to stopp them coming loose was not just me being paranoid!
I better check on mine also now.
ive already brought up the idea of WHY some companies use LESS than OEM strength replacement bolts on MORE than OEM pressure parts(ie the stress a larger swaybar puts on a standard subframe etc)....its asking for trouble ( i have broken 1 bolt and tore out old subframe too)
but tis to no avail. for piece of mind Its best to spend up big and get one of those ASR kits or just leave it stock lol
'heavy duty in the house'
dont accept any less than +10 tensile strenght when it comes to sussy bolts , people :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by egSi
ASR ftw
reminder to readers that the reinforcement kit is not 100% to protect ur subfram from ripping apart, so beaware
Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
lol.
I agree with ben on this from experience
God damn bolt snapped inside the hole (god damn wyn)
and this time when you get the sway bar put back on, make sure it's the right way round (otherwise it will definitely rattle and hit your exhaust pipe).
i've experienced this with my ex civic vtir coupe.
NEWS!!!
the shop has agreed to repair the subframe tear out at no cost.:thumbsup:
The kit did not come with the heavy duty bracket and brace as standard,
and they were unaware of the problem (hence the stock bracket was used)
I'm going to order the ASR brace.
my car feels like sloppy p00 without the swaybar
BY THE WAY, the whiteline swaybar was only 18mm!!!
(stock is 16mm)
good to hear. I had a 18mm "upgrade" bar from whiteline (using hte stock mounts too) and it tore out the U clip...luckily not the subframe.
Glad they are fixing it for you.
I am surprised hearing that even the 18mm can do that much damage. With the U clips did they also supply reinforcement from the back as well?
how much was the damage ?
how much is the asr re-o kit?
abouut $250 excluding shipping from the states, ask Yonas, he will know :)Quote:
Originally Posted by destrukshn
If you are talking without the/a sway and in US dollars then you are getting close.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm_kid
$179.99 US --> $243.23 AU (ASR Subframe Reinforcement Brace, EG civic)Quote:
Originally Posted by Zdster
Thanks for correcting me - you are right. Was thinking of something else.Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm_kid
What this basically balls down to is that Whiteline NEEDS to have a look et their mounting on these bars and maybe do a re design.
Always said if there was a flat plate on the back side of the bolts that was like a giant washer with 2 holes that line up with the mounting holes to give that little bit of extra support it would mean that the bolts couldn't chew the actual metal of the sub frame.
We wait and see what Whiteline do as this is getting to become far to common a problem.
i would never have though the sub-frame was so weak that it would tear under a 18mm swaybar.
My old corolla had a 18mm rear sway and it just used the original mounts and it was fine for years until i sold it.
So where do i get these extra rear support from?
Anyone got a pic of one on so i know what it looks like?
yeah hondas and corollas have a different way the swaybar works.
there was a thread here a while ago should be able to track one down with a quick search.
damn.
this has been some problem with the EK.
its poor that honda used mounts on the subframe.
ive got a mirage (auspec no rear sway factory). My v2 whiteline mounting bracket for rear swaybar is same as the Cyborg. it bolts to the rear chassis rails on both sides. nothing mounts to the subframe. the first version whiteline like the civic one was shit. Whiteline didnt know of the chassis mounting and supplied a kit that required holes drilled into the centre region of the subframe (where the civic EKs is free from any reinforcement the Mirage still has metal).
http://img147.imageshack.us/my.php?i...edsf0105oi.jpg
i think the current version of the Civic EK rear swaybar can come with the heavy duty mounting plate as well as a tie bar which makes it more rigid distributes the load better. its really stupid though how the stock mounting is so close to the edge.
if you can definately go the ASR kit. you need to strengthen the f**k out of it to hold the abuse of hard cornering.
not sure how the shop is going to fix it but will be as strong as the original sheet metal (:eek:)
i hope it all works out well
lol at subframe
then ad 45.00US for shipping and you haev yourself over 300+Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm_kid
Mine cost me $258us delivered to aus which was about $350au at the time (about a year & a bit ago)Quote:
Originally Posted by destrukshn
Hi i just bought the ASR kit for my DA integra should arrive in 2 weeks will let you know how it goes with photos when i get it on. Awsome peace of kit too bad it cost me $833 including brace and 32mm hollow swaybar, but it was the only way to get a strong and large enough set-up that i wanted.Check out their website http://asrparts.com/. a picture of the kit already on.
32mm OHMYGOT ! lol
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdm_kid
dont forget its hollow...
Plus it is also not on a civic (I would have thought it would be different on different chassis).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_will
Even so thats still a friggin hefty bar to stick on the back of a honda if you arent racing.
The biggest sway bar isn't always the best for your car.
You may find that some cars handle better with an 18mm where others feel sloppy.
Instead of going the full race bar you may want to look at other braces first to stiffen the rest of your chassis.
exactly. the only advantage in hollw swaybars is the cost factor and for the same weight (hollow vs smaller diameter solid of same weight) it will be stiffer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr_will
refer to this - http://www.theherd.com/articles/swaybar.html
It's great to hear some businesses out there admit to their wrongdoing and will repair for free.Quote:
Originally Posted by mimps
If your going to run the ASR reo kit are you considering in upgrading to a thicker bar? :p
Thanks for that link Benjamin, ive been looking everywhere for that info, and i did some calculations and if the bars are equall in all other areas, the asr 32mm / 2.5mm bar would be 126% stiffer than an integra type r 22mm bar, probably equaivalent to a 26mm solid,(correct me if im wrong) and dont forget the ASR kit has adjustable arms. When fitting a rear swaybar it makes a huuuuuuuge difference to handling and with the hondas being weak in that area the only option is to strenghen the subframe, the asr kit isnt the only option as there are kits from whiteline and other manufacturers much cheaper, but not for the DA's. The only options for me were to buy an 18mm and risk it, adapt a dc2 brace kit with 22mm bar or the asr kit, all i can say is please strengthen the subrame and you will not believe the difference a bigger rear sway will make to a front wheel drive car.later.
you subframe costs about $1200 to repair .. heheeh
they repair it next door to whitelines ahahah..
dont ask me how i know.. hehehehe
Backyard DIY ASR
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...8/DSCF1523.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...8/DSCF1590.jpg
You made me laugh.....(poor whitline) at least now we know what where in for in costs if we put a larger rear swaybar on without srenghening the subframe.What size swaybar did you use on the backyard kit.
22 ITR item...Quote:
Originally Posted by TEGNO1
its backyard.. but it works exactly the same as ASR:thumbsup:
shit. i just ordered my sway bar as well. what other alternatives are there apart from gettn ASR?
if the whiteline kit has all the fittings and plates supplied it should be fine correct?
Top job its good that you thought ahead and saved some money too. Hows the 22mm rear must drive like a different car with that on right.(what you using for the front hows the handling...nuetral over/understeer. Hope someone who's used the whiteline kit can provide some feedback for you FLY.
The whiteline stuff is ok for DC.. just not EK ...Quote:
Originally Posted by .::F[L]Y::.
DC only experiences plucking when ripped out the whiteline one is fine..:thumbsup:
feels better.. but track time wise.. i didnt see much difference from std to 22mmQuote:
Originally Posted by TEGNO1
allgood. will be installing mine after my exams :)
this wont happen if i just install a ek9 sway onto the stock ek4 right??? or will i need reinforcement too...
btw wats the different with ek9 vs ek4. dont think it will make a huge difference?
Dont forget you dont have to buy the 32mm hollow you can just buy the brace for $180us retail +shipping,and just use a 22mm DC2R bar, i had no option as with the DA's they only sell complete.http://search.ebay.com.au/asr-brace_...sPageNameZWD2Sthats the link to a seller on ebay dont know anyone else who supplies ASR kits. (question for blitz what spring rates and front swaybar are you using, any tips for me in setting up my car), thanks.
good luck mounting it..;)Quote:
Originally Posted by EK4R
they done even have the same subframe:wave:
ek4 16mm vs ek9 22mm. you will need all brackets from the ek9 to fit hte ek9 barQuote:
Originally Posted by EK4R
john. the whiteline kit is fine asl ong as you install the heavy duty mounting plates. tends to hit the exhaust if you lower it too hard. you can follow duesta's easy 20minute fix. just search for it or ask him on msn. :)
dittoQuote:
Originally Posted by barefootbonzai
expensive, yet oh so much cheaper than a new subframe, worth every cent!
well i mite be getting adjustable whiteline sway. so max is 22mm i believe?Quote:
Originally Posted by TEGNO1
wat cars this going om mate, u may run into problems like i did using a whiteline bar with the asr brace. see this thread for referance http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...t=38433&page=5Quote:
Originally Posted by .::F[L]Y::.
read from the end of page onwards.
if you look at the pics in the next page of that thread you will see that i removed the tubes from the whiteline bracket. let me jsut say the tack wels holding the tubes to the flat plate were shit, for the most part, they were fine, but a couple wernt fused properly to the plate and could be easily removed cleanly with a chisil by hand.
Out of the 4 tubes i removed, 2 were held on by only 1 tackweld each the other tack weld didnt actually fuse to the plate, im hoping it was only my brackets, not all of there brackets.
let me also add, doing it the way ive done in that thread on page six works fine, but it pulls the bar rearwards a little to far and is not really optimal. if people want photos just ask, i cant be bothered explaining
How does the ASR reinforcing plate mount onto the subframe? Are there spacer tubes on the mounting holes like on the whiteline mounting plates? What would be the result if a piece of steel was welded between the whiteline mounting plates so that it was a single piece like the ASR piece?
Also does this whole subframe tearing issue apply to an upgraded front swaybar or is it only generally the rear that has problems?
its the rear sway bar mainly
Due to the fact that people go larger than standard for the model car.
Yes i know that this can be hard with something like a CXI that has NO bars at all but then compare then to the top of the line for the STD range.
IE compare the bars to those of the VTI-R model not the Type R as that has more reinforcements due to larger amounts of torque in the engine etc.
Just to clarify guys -
ASR brace , depending on application , REQUIRES OEM ITR or CTR bars , or MUGEN bars (EG/DC)
You cannot use a whiteline swaybar on a ASR brace.
WHITELINE reinforcement can only use whiteline bars.
Choose one nad stick to it :)
This topic can go round in circles for weeks and the same questions will always get asked.
If someone can be assed can they make a How To or something so that we can just say read this?
i got quoted $429US for the ASR kit + 22mm ITR swaybar shipped to sydney. Might pick this up later. Rather pay for the ASR kit, than welding in new subframe.
Im using the whitline reinforcement kit with an ITR rear sway. You can buy the reinforcement kit on its own with D brackets to suit 18mm to 23mm sway barsQuote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Last time i tried , there was no way a ITR swaybar was fitting on a whiteline reinforcement kit. The whiteline bar and ITR bar "kink" in different areas , usually making them incompatible...but you have got it fitted :) Pix ?Quote:
Originally Posted by weezer
hang on, you're talking about an EK? mines an EG
EG dude :)
I have whiteline reinforcement , and as described above , i couldnt get the ITR rear bar to fit. So i used the whiteline one.
Other options for the rear sway instead of the ASR kit is the Comptech kit. Both are equally as good and they will help reduce the amount of tearing on the EK/EM's (except Type R) weak lower subframe. Notice how I said REDUCE, not eliminate.
Your spring rates will also determine whether or not your subframe will tear. Too soft of a spring rate and you'll risk shearing the metal off as pictured in the original post.
Got my car back, fixed and fitted with ASR brace, additional Omni LCAs for bling factor:p
wats with ur muffler in picture one? ur exhaust seems like 2" or so, which is normal, but the exit hole of the muffler looks like its no thicker than a 1" peashooter exhaust, looks like a big restriction?
Is this one of those take out pieces so u can make it loud or quiet?
or is it just a poorly/stupidly designed muffler?
or does it somhow help the harmonics of the airflow to help power on the NA engine??
Anyone know?
Anyways looks very nice, no subframe cracking for you.
^^ is that the right way up? how come whiteline writing is upside down.