Which is better in overall..?
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Which is better in overall..?
R, no ****in doubt!
S is a bit confused about what it really is.
type s ( 's' stands for soft!) no lsd, no recaros, no momo! dc5r is definitely better , but both not as good as a dc2r
depends on what you want out of a car i guess. R is more racy, S is (yep softer) and more cruisey.
R - recaros, rear wing, lsd, lighter
S - leather seats, sunroof, bigger rims, wider tyres, tad more power.
the S has a bit more power but is also a bit heavier. i think someone said that the suspension geometry in the facelift version is better than the pre-face lift, but don't quote me on that.
R cause of the above reasons.
and did you search this at all, or just make a new thread..... as this topic has been cover ALOT of times before... and in ALOT of depth.
dc5r for racing/performance and dc5s for looks/style
Better in what way?Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
There are Pros and Cons with everything.
well, the reason for asking is that i have a DC5R and i wanted to know whats the difference between the both cars.. getting other people's thoughts on the both cars is the best way..
what i dont get is that, how the hell does the type S can get 7kw more..? i know its not much but it still bothers me when people bring it up and say that the type S is better then the type R, its even got more power..
is it the exhaust system..? if soo, if they both changed their header and exhaust system , which would have more power..?
also, which would be best to race on track and streets..?
Probably the cams and ECU.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Track: Type R.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Street: None.
7kw isn't much. and i doubt you'd even notice if your car produced the DC5S figures. For the track you'd find the more squeezy (less slippery) seats, lighter weight, and LSD more useful.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
If you like to cruise get the S.
If you like to track get the R.
Does the Aus delivered DC5R (type S in other markets) have an LSD? I thought it didn't have one?
DC5R is not the Type S in other markets. The DC5S is the Type S.Quote:
Originally Posted by milkman
The Aus DC5R got LSD but didn't get Brembos.
so can you install an LSD on the type S..?
Thanks for that Aaron :)
You learn something new everyday!
fuze - I don't see why not?
Yes, just use the DC5R's.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
just use a DC5r gear box..... but then you might as well have got a R.Quote:
Originally Posted by fuze
seriously... if your that worried about 7kw get a S.
if you change the zorst and intake on a R you'll have the same... if not more power then a S..... but then cause a R is cheaper then a S... you'll be able to get coilovers and some nice wheels to.
then it would S*&T all over a S.
You can take a DC5R LSD and put it into a DC5S gearbox. Someone has put in a DC5R LSD into an Euro gearbox because they are all K-series.Quote:
Originally Posted by 45SET
I'd say R for racing & S for sports.
I first set out to by a second hand DC5R, either over priced or in poor condition. So i settled for a New DC5S. All in all i think there pretty even at the end, plus & minus on both sides.
i'd say their 2 different to be to overall equal, but the S is overpriced, could of been better
cheers
dude... jz b passionate of wot u have, dont bother with those figures... who cares wot other ppl saying abt S is better than R or other way around.
some times i think cars might not needed to b compared with each other but to appearciates their own bits.
cheers.
Ok guys, I would have to be the first one to disagree that the TypeS is soft.
I have owned a 2002 DC5 auto for 4 years and now I own a TypeS.
All this time I have wanted to buy the DC5R, but after having done my research, i found that the DC5R we get in oz is actually "soft" itself.
No LSD in the DC5S, big deal. $1000 in the TypeS and you have the same thing. No recaro, to be honest, the recaros on the DC5R does't hold you in that well anyway, most people who actually do serious track work change them for other racing bucket seats....hmm what else, oh yeah, TypeS has sunroof, and no it does't change the rigidity of the car.
The TypeS's K20z1 engine is more similar to the JDM DC5R engine than you think. Where as the K20a2 in the DC5R we have here has softer cams and other internals that are not as performance orientated as the K20z1. What I mean here is the engine in the new TypeS (k20z1) has been upgraded, updated because of the short comings of the k20a2.
Just read up on Clubrsx.com, stock for stock, they can tune more out of the k20z1.
i'm with Tofu on this one. although the type R has its looks and type S is more pointed at its luxury end, the type S engine is better than the type R oneQuote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
when you say looks, what do you mean by that? the coloured interior? the rear wing? the red badges?
R = Rough
S = Soft
Its a matter of personal preference ;)
For a daily driver who drives in a lot of traffic, the Tyre-S would be more suitable.
looks is down to personal taste
I never really like the TypeR rear high wing.
and the coloured interior, well, that's personal taste too.
not quite..Quote:
Originally Posted by EuroDude
the suspension in the TypeS (talking stock for stock) compared to the TypeR is pretty much similar, the gear ratios are similar too...
so why is the TypeS easier, better for normal day driving?
It's all placebo effect caused by the Recaros (or lack there of, thinking it's a softer car if it doesn't have one)
Type S has sound deadening under the carpet, Type R doesn't.
also another interesting point...
Wheels and Motor magazine have tested both the TypeS and TypeR in stock form...and both magazines have reported that the TypeS is faster than the TypeR in a straight line.
Same decision, when I looking for a Type-R. I was disappointed when it is a shadow of the JDM version.Quote:
Originally Posted by pung_dc2
yep personal prefererence.. but i like both.
I heard about that too, but people tend to think type R is the harder because of its TypeR background. unfortunately they screwed it up this timeQuote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
I saw the JDM Type R in best motoring international, absolutely awesome. When I saw what Honda brought out here - I was thinking, what the hell is this, as if they were making a mockery of the buyers in Australia. It felt stripped down compared to it's Japanese cousin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ray_mon
To me, the DC2R brought out here was the best Integra - so raw and focused on the driver to tame it.
well i used to have a dc5 base model car and just purchased a DC5R about 2 weeks ago. i have to say that im very impressed by the car. really good handling, pritty fast in a straight line. i think they are very under rated cars. drive one before you speake.
I currently have a dc5 base model and a 2005 TypeS.
I have driven and sat in many many DC5R and constantly in contact with people who owns the Australian delivered DC5R, and stock for stock, I will still buy the TypeS over the Australian TypeR anyday.
Why? personal reasons and opinion i guess, but maybe you should test drive a TypeS compared to the R and see for yourself.
i think the two will be identical in a straight line. however around a track it would be a different story. i agree that its not an everyday car, but there aren't many na 4cilynder cars that would keep up with r33 gtst skylines stock for stock
Jeff you might wanna get your facts straight with reagrds to the differences between the motors.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
The JDM DC5R with K20A engine has exactly the same part number for the head as the Australian DC5R with K20A2 engine. The part number is 12100-PRB-A00.
The K20A engine has a compression ratio of 11.5 to 1 while the K20A2 is 11.0 to 1. Different pistons in the K20A. THIS IS THE MAJOR DIFFERENCE
The early K20A and K20A2 had exactly the same valves, springs and retainers according to the parts manual. The springs changed a little by the time the 2004 model arrived, but essentially the same still.
Both engines have the same head gasket exactly according to the parts manual.
Same crankshaft part number for K20A and K20A2 (13310-PRB-A00).
Connecting rods also have exactly the same part number.
K20A has a different part number for the crankshaft pulley (13810-PRC-003) while the K20A2 is 13810-PRB-A01. The K20A pulley could be lighter or slightly different diameter. Only guessing here. I might check it out sometime and find out the difference.
K20A has a lighter flywheel (22100-PRC-003). K20A2 flywheel part number is 22100-PRB-003.
The Type S makes an extra 7kw through a slightly larger intake manifold (jdm i am guessing) and slighlt larger exhaust than the Aus Type R. Everything else is the same as the A2 as far as i am aware.
All in all intake/exhaust/headers are the first engine mods most ppl do.
Personally i prefer the R, due to the recaros and momo wheel, etc. I track race my car once a month and have yet to see a dc5r at the track with an aftermarket seat in it. Car makes 150kw atw and is within 1-2sec of the lap times of a friends GT3 Porsche and in a straight line is as fast as the evo 8-9's making 180-190kw atw.
I like the styling of the front end of the S as well as the wheels and cd player but other than that i'd happily take an R over an S ;)
This is what I am refering too...
that was taken from Hondata USA website.Quote:
Comments:
This engine responds better to tuning than the K20A2, probably due to the better cams and the fact that the stock ECU runs so rich at the top end. A race header, with tuning will provide a significant increase in the mid range and top end torque.
Cams
We have cross referenced the 05 RSX intake and exhaust camshaft part numbers with those available for Japanese ITR.
The Japanese part numbers for the ITR intake cams are:
14110-PRC-000
14110-PRC-010
14110-PRC-020
This is because there have been three revisions of the engine.
The US part numbers for the 05 cams are:
14110-PRC-030 (intake)
14120-PRC-030 (exhaust)
It is therefore our assumption that the cams in the 05 RSX are the Japanese ITR cams. which have the same lift but more duration than the PRB cams
(The 02-04 intake cam part number is: 14110-PRB-020 )
http://www.hondata.com/dynok20-05rsx.html
Ok maybe i shouldn't have said the K20A2 isn't as performance orientated.
The K20A2 has all those parts, the K20Z1 (in the 05-06 TypeS) has the same too, and also not only that, it has better cams according to Hondata USA.
Hmm it would be interesting to actually know the duration as compared to the others but i guess that info isn't readily available :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Tofu
Ahh i'm happy with my toda spec c's 297deg duration and 12mm of lift hehe :p
ive driven both cars... in my honest opinion, i think both cars are pretty much identical interms of performance (ok, mayb the S is a little faster, but the R is a stiffer ride).... wat it really comes down to is what flavour u have :thumbsup: no point arguing like little school girls....
what exactly is the type s? where does it come from (asin where does it originate from)
i saw best motoring review it comparing it to the jdm dc5r and they thought it was quite mild and more street orientated. Having said that... with the improved suspension geometry over the first gen - all it really needs is an lsd n some decent recaros... if ur willing to pay
It's made in Japan for Australia. USA also gets it in LHD under the RSX Type S. I'm positive that I have the same Best Motoring. That was comparing the 2001-2005 DC5R to the 2006 DC5R. Japan doesn't have a Type S model for their market.Quote:
Originally Posted by ryuhou
Man this argument is getting very technical. Which is nice to see as its very educational to read.
From a noobs perspective whos never driven either. Type R >>> Type S because the R looked badass for such a small car, easily better looking than a WRX or an Evolution. But I hated everything about the facelift of S. Everything.
your right about the comparison
but there was a separate episode where they reviewed the type s
just a small segment...
sooo yeah.... dc2r ftw!!!!
if most of the parts on both cars are the same, i just wanna know if both have the same brand mods (CAI, header, cat-back exhaust, hondata ecu coilovers and etc..) which whould be better..?
also, with the soft ride of the type S, most people would change theirs to coilovers,.. wouldn't that change the ride comfort..?
and another thing, which has the better brake system..? (even if they both changed the pads to a after-market ones)..?
Hey CivicOnBoost, how did you get your R to go 150kw@w..? Turbo..??
how much did it cost for your mods..?
injen cai, spoon tb, jdm im, toda headers, custom catback, toda spec c cams/valve springs/retainers, hondata k-proQuote:
Originally Posted by fuze
Japan does have the TypeS, but it's the 118kw version.
The Type S intake manifold is the same as JDM DC5-5Quote:
Originally Posted by CivicOnBoost
Though the casting quality is inferior to the JDM item, the results on the dyno are identical. (I have a JDM DC5-R intake on my Type S with no gain)
The std type S exhaust is larger than the Type R.
Hense the type R responds a little better to an exhaust change.
Other changes are to the front suspension.
JDM DC5-R alloy arms fit directly to the Type S.
The AUDM Type R uses a smaller ball joint & requires a hub change to use the JDM alloy arms.
When alloy arms are used, JMD front swaybar can now be used... (OEM & aftermarket)
Cheers
Adrian
Tofu, thank you for your productive information, I got more confident to get DC5-S. I will forget about Golf GTI now.
Hi,
I have just picked up a type S earlier on this week,
I find that it is much more comfortable smoother and quicker than the type R,
I have given it a squirt up againts one of my friends comming back to sydney on the M4 who was in a Type R & I found that i just kept pulling away from him hands down.
Sorry to dissapiont anyone but thats just the absolute truth.
The facts are that the Type S is a much more luxurious vehicle with more power and smoother power delivery. I also find that the rear looks a little cleaner than the Type R.
What is everyone' else's thoughts on this?
Regards,
ROFL..
pulling away from a typeR.. if both were stock.. dont think ur gna pull away with an extra 7kw
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type S Tony
Quote:
Originally Posted by XP02ED
Why would you say that?
If you're saying stock to stock, then the Type S would have a better top end due to the bigger intake and better head also the bigger exhaust compared to the AUDM DC5.
Which would undoubtly help in the top end range .
maybe so but i dont think it will "pull" away..
it may beat it but it aint gna pull like a turbo car away :S
i aint saying that it wont beat it.. just the term "pull" makes it sound like the S will flog an R
Look guys, I didnt want to start an argument or anything im just sharing my experiance,Maybe the term "pull" isnt the right word maybe i just should have said "I was going faster than Him"
Leave him alone. It's not uncommon to think ones car is quicker than it really is.
How much heavier is a Type S anyway? As a fair comparison we should compare power to weight. The extra 7kW could be nullified by an extra 50kgs or so. At the end of the day I think we can all agree that the difference would be so miniscule that it would go either way solely on the driver. We're not talking NSXR vs Si Civic here after all.
I think i can put an end to this arguement.
Owning a Type R and Type S at the same time before.
R had a catback exhaust + (2 x 12" sub in the boot), done about 75000km.
S was dead stock, spanking new done about 25000km.
We did a couple of runs, rotating drivers. This was about 2 years ago now.
We got these results.
I was driving the R, 1/4 car length behind the S at the end of 3rd. Switch to 4th and the R came out infront by about 1/2 a car length. Switched to 5th and then to started to slow down. We got the same result for 2 runs.
We then switch cars on the way back and i was driving the S.
At the end of 3rd it was pretty head to head, but the R still came out about at least 1/2 cars length at the end of 4th gear.
Some things to take note of:
All the runs we did was from a rolling start. 60km/hr in 2nd gear.
The road was dry and dead straight.
This is purely from what i've observed that night, there is no bs.
Type S is smoother that the Type R, i have no problems agreeing to that. However, if the arguement that Type S is faster that the type R straight/circuit i will have to disagree.
If you guys take a look at the Wheels Article sometime last year. Where they posted times of 0-200km/h between the DC2R, DC5R and DC5S, you will actually see the top end of the of the DC5R is faster than the DC5S.
just my 2c
And we sold the type S beginning of year :P
I believe the Type S runs a different Final Drive to that of the AUS DC5R, this will also play a part in countering the extra weight. From my own experience there is next to nothing in it (straight line)
Look Guys,
It looks like next week Wednesday ill be heading out to WSID with my friend and his Type R,
Ill settle the issue once we get the results and well have to let the time cards do all the talking.
The only point I tried to make here is that if the Type S is a fraction quicker, Is more Luxurious, Is a smoother ride, Is a better looking car & is somewhat easier to drive doesnt that make it all round a better car than the Type R?
The Name of the thread is DC5R "VS" DC5S is it not.
Yes it is... but if you want a luxurious car why would you be an S? or matter a fact an integra? rather a euro?
Thats like saying why buy an M3 when u u can buy a normal 5 series... there's a market for Luxury Sports Cars as much as some people hate to admit it, and i think the Type S does a good job of catering to both Crowds.Quote:
Originally Posted by XP02ED
thats true.. i admit theres lux sports cars.. but just how people are saying its better coz its more luxurious?
its funny.. coz if you chuck an exhaust into either car.. its a different story.. you hear the annoying noise.. ;D
i think both cars have there potential and i can't see 1 beating the other by alot with similar mods.. there both designed by honda.. with minor changes.. the wing makes an R what its known for..
:thumbsup: To say one is better than the other is purley an opinion, Different cars for different people and needs! I dont see why people try so hard to compare the S and R. They were aimed at a different demographic and do a great job just in different ways!Quote:
Originally Posted by XP02ED
Quote:
Originally Posted by XP02ED
Cause I wanted something that moved and that was also comfy!
driver skill is going to play a bigger factor in the results than the car will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type S Tony
i own a DC5R and have driven a DC5S, both very similar at the end of the day when it comes down to just driving.
owner preference will really decide which is more suitable, some will like the R for the recaros etc, some will like the S for the more luxurious feel.
I really don't like quoting people coz it seems like a personal attack.Quote:
Originally Posted by Type S Tony
Easier to drive :thumbsup: no doubt, even my gf drives the S as her daily.
Smoother ride :thumbsup: yup definately not as rough as the R! Lighter steeing + sunroof. Not to mention that leather totally burns skin in summer.
Better Looking :eek: thats debatable!
i found from carsales.com.au and it told me that type s tare mass is 1230kg got 154kw and type r is 1160kg got 147kw for the power weight ratio are 125.2kw/kg(type s) and 126.7kw/kg(type r).....actually they are really close in shock condition. honda stop selling their type R and start selling type S in aus becoz the AUDM DC5R is actually a type S of coz the new type S should be a little bit better(got 7kw gain).....AUDM DC5R's k20a2 is tune up from rsx engine only so its not a real type r actually.....well i am a AUDM DC5R's owner and i wanna protect our type r honor as well but thats the fact the only thing is i am so disappointing to honda that selling us a car such like that!!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Type S Tony
well sometime i dont wanna speeding or waste my petrol even a dc2 gsi can pulling me away....i didnt waste my petrol to hit my vtec and he won make both happy^^
i am not saying that u are in the same case but maybe one of possible~~~
Times have changed. Honda will not produce a "raw" or "real" Type R for a small minority of die hard fans on Ozhonda having a whinge about getting ripped off. Honda is a business and a business is supposed to attract a wider target market in hope for a larger return to its shareholders. Spending billions of dollars on Research and Development for a "raw and hardcore" Type R for a small market would be nonsensical. Of course, if wide sampling market research suggests that the benefits would outweigh the costs of doing so then it would be feasible.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ-LOVER
And don't tell me that there is a large share of Ozhonda people that would tick the yes box for one. Ozhonda members as a proportion of the Australian population? Do the maths.
Australia is just not the market for it. We love our leather seats, sunroof, smoothness, power and 9/10 Australians would never even take their car to the track etc.
SO PLEASE, stop the whinging about the lack of 'real type R' and selling Australians a ripped off version of what a Type R is supposed to be. All factors are considered and their analysis has probably shown that their business risks are best mitigated by tailoring their products to a specific market, namely, Australia.
(This is not targeted at you specifically by the way, it's to all the people on Ozhonda having a cry about not getting the real Type R and getting disappointed that the DC5R didn't live up to the DC2R etc)
It's not hard to get an AUDM DC5R to produce JDM power. Just get a set of good headers and exhaust and a CAI and you're pretty much there.Quote:
Originally Posted by JJ-LOVER
Sure, the AUDM DC5R isn't up to spec of the JDM but all this talk about a gimped version is pretty frustrating. The majority of people here have modded theirs beyond JDM spec anyway so what's the problem?
Who said a typeR doesnt have a sunroof? mine does... a/m that is... sunroof is more a want than a needQuote:
Originally Posted by dark138
lol @ this thread.
IMO harden up and get a Type R.
If you want something smooth to drive, get a Euro.
when i compare cars, i compare stock for stock anyways. otherwise it just gets messyQuote:
Originally Posted by XP02ED
Why Does everyone seem to say that (Get A Euro), Does No-One Understand that Euros dont move!, Sure they look good but you dont get any RUSH!Quote:
Originally Posted by Amusevtec
(by the way not a personal attack on yourself, its just that alot of people have said that on various threads)
Euro's move. My friend got a 15.2 in a stock Euro. Moves better than a EK4.
Some people in this forum with DC5R/S get like 15's down the 1/4 Mile
I reckon an EK4 can break 15.2s. :)
How can you sit their and honestly quote 15.2 and say that it moves?Quote:
Originally Posted by Amusevtec
My old Starlet GT with a 1.3L Tiny Tots turbo cracked a 13.8 and that car was slow.
Offcourse the boost was set to a maximum and their would be now way i could drive it daily like that but thats besides the point.
15.2 is not anything to brag about.
13.8, that's faster than my car.
Yeah 15.2 is nothing to brag about, but you said it doesn't move. Im just saying that there's DC5 that do 15's.
Type S owners like the Type S
Type R owners like the Type R
I hope that helps.