2nd gear has a dead flat spot. 5th Gen

I drive a 98 vtir manual prelude.
I just recently noticed that 2nd gear in very sluggish and dead flat at low speeds/rpm ( < 2800rpm)

For instance, while in 2nd gear at around 10-15km which equates to around 1500rpm, the acceleration is very poor. Even at WOT, you can hear the drone in the exhaust. The rpm needle very slowly makes its way to 2500rpm before a bit of life comes into the engine again.

This is very annoying especially when coming out of roundabout exists, trying to take off after slowing down at a T intersection. It either forces me to shift back into first or rev more than i want to in first to ensure that when i shift to 2nd it stays around 2500-2800rpm.

This doesnt happen for 1st gear in that rev range. Only 2nd.

Does it sound like there is something wrong? Is there something i can do about this?

Sounds like a honda engine to me.

How does the engine come back to life?? Is it as if it slowly starts to produce power? or does it feel like the ECU kicks back in or something?

J

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Originally Posted by JasonGilholme

Sounds like a honda engine to me.

How does the engine come back to life?? Is it as if it slowly starts to produce power? or does it feel like the ECU kicks back in or something?

J

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I have driven many honda and i do realise they are not torquey engines, but this is like so low for the needle to reach 2500 from 1500 in second.

What i meant by coming back to life is when the RPM needle accelerates much faster when it goes above 3000rpm. So in 2nd at around 1500, at a real slow constant speed gradually gets to around 2500rpm then the rev range is normal.

If feels like i am trying to start off in 3rd gear or something so it takes long to get the needle to 2500rpm.

No smoke or anything or that sort??

What fuel you running??

Have your changed or your filters and plugs recently?

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Originally Posted by JasonGilholme

No smoke or anything or that sort??

What fuel you running??

Have your changed or your filters and plugs recently?

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A better description is, it feels like i am trying to start off in 3rd gear or something so it takes long to get the needle to 2500rpm.

I run on 95 RON petrol.
I just had an oil change which includes the oil filter only.
I am due for a major in another 5000km, so i doubt the spark plugs and other filters have been changed.

i am starting to have that problem too, i always use 98ron petty so its prolly not ur petty, and my oil and oil filter & sparkies are only just gone 5000kz old so im guessing its my leads...when i change them ill let you know...

ps also it could be ur intake? i have aluminium piping to the filter located in my front bumper and in hot weather lags like hell...so im not sure

Fuel filter??

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Originally Posted by VTi_b0i

i am starting to have that problem too, i always use 98ron petty so its prolly not ur petty, and my oil and oil filter & sparkies are only just gone 5000kz old so im guessing its my leads...when i change them ill let you know...

ps also it could be ur intake? i have aluminium piping to the filter located in my front bumper and in hot weather lags like hell...so im not sure

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Please keep me informed when you got your leads changed.
I have a stock airbox if it matters.

oh then thats not the case... could very well be fuel filter as that hasnt been changed in quite some time :o

Stock airbox should be fine, unless the filter hasn't been changed this century. (literally)

you shouldnt be WOT in 2nd gear from 1500rpm ish....pretty much any car will lag by taking off in 2nd gear or by short shifting straight away.

Try changing your driving style slightly and im sure the car will miss this flat spot

I'd check the dizzy too, maybe at low RPM there is some corrosion which is causing resistance to the current flow. Also, pull out the plugs to see if you are running rich or lean or if the plugs are corroded.

whats the milage and what major is it due for?

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

you shouldnt be WOT in 2nd gear from 1500rpm ish....pretty much any car will lag by taking off in 2nd gear or by short shifting straight away.

Try changing your driving style slightly and im sure the car will miss this flat spot

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I usually dont come in the situation where i am WOT on 2nd gear at 1500rpm, but it generally happens at round abouts and T junctions.

Let me explain, you are appoaching a T junction where you want to turn left. As you approach you down shift into 2nd to slow down. Once you reach the intersection and realise there is a car coming from the left but you have adequate time to continue in the turn. At this point you are still in 2nd gear at around 10-15km which is around 1500 rpm. So i try to accelerate out of the turn. It is at this point when 2nd gear is VERY sluggish from 1500rpm - 2500rpm.

I can shift into 1st, but i rather not as i believe 1st gear is for starting off and 2nd gear should be adequate to use on those circumstamces.

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Originally Posted by vtek

whats the milage and what major is it due for?

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Car is at 155,000 and due for the major service at 160,000.

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Originally Posted by jaffa_cree

Let me explain, you are appoaching a T junction where you want to turn left. As you approach you down shift into 2nd to slow down. Once you reach the intersection and realise there is a car coming from the left but you have adequate time to continue in the turn. At this point you are still in 2nd gear at around 10-15km which is around 1500 rpm. So i try to accelerate out of the turn. It is at this point when 2nd gear is VERY sluggish from 1500rpm - 2500rpm.

I can shift into 1st, but i rather not as i believe 1st gear is for starting off and 2nd gear should be adequate to use on those circumstamces.

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I see, that means that you are lugging your engine. Does it sound like it is stuttering and feel like it is struggling? If yes, then it's normal. Just use lighter throttle to avoid lugging and the engine will still accelerate but without the struggling feeling. Remember, your foot is directly linked to your throttle butterfly. When you open it fully at low RPM, the velocity is too low for such a large opening to make low RPM torque. You'll accelerate better and be kinder to your engine if you used only 1/2 throttle or even less.

:confused: wtf is WOT ?

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Originally Posted by VTi_b0i

:confused: wtf is WOT ?

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full throttle. Floor it. give it beans.

Wide
Open
Throttle

hahah there is nothing wrong with the car...
its just the way it is LOL.
Most Honda's would be doing what you describe as laggy (manual of course).
Just as benjamin said. your driving style needs some adjustment.
its easy just dun change gears way too early :)

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Originally Posted by dundas

hahah there is nothing wrong with the car...
its just the way it is LOL.
Most Honda's would be doing what you describe as laggy (manual of course).
Just as benjamin said. your driving style needs some adjustment.
its easy just dun change gears way too early :)

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I have also driven many 1.6L civics and 1.8L integras and they dont feel THAT sluggish compared to this car that has a 2.2L engine.


When upshifting there is no problems. The problem lies when i am downshifting to 2nd for a turn and then trying to accelerate out of the turn.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bennjamin

full throttle. Floor it. give it beans.

Wide
Open
Throttle

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lol thanks benny

LOL.. oh also the prelude weighs a fair bit more than both of those cars :)
as Benny said WOT---and as aarong explained...
I know what you mean with the sluggish acceleration. if your not trying to drive fast it shouldn't be too much of an issue buddy :)
i guess u can either drop into 1st with some rev matching so u get that GREAT torque, or just take the corners faster with higher revs when u change down into 2nd :)
or just not worry about it. :)

IMO a 4 cyl. honda with a larger eng. (2/2.2) tends to lag down low more so than the smaller engines (1.6's/1.8's)....mainly due to longer stroke , taller FD and more weight to lug around. Just keep the power more into the lower gears and enjoy the VTEC rush.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaffa_cree

At this point you are still in 2nd gear at around 10-15km which is around 1500 rpm. So i try to accelerate out of the turn. It is at this point when 2nd gear is VERY sluggish from 1500rpm - 2500rpm.

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i was taught in my driving lessons that you should take corners in 2nd gear at 20 to 30km/h if you are doing 10 to 15 should be switching back to 1st

reading the manual should tell u when to change gear it should be around 20km/h from first to 2nd

I am due for a new air filter and am wondering would a KN panel filter help the acceleration in low revs?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jaffa_cree

I am due for a new air filter and am wondering would a KN panel filter help the acceleration in low revs?

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Even a new Honda OEM panel filter would help acceleration in low revs if your current filter is blocked.

OK. I am looking at getting some headers in hope that it will give me so better low down torque. I am looking at getting the XForce 4-2-1 headers from the sponsor Racing Nation. I realise that 4-2-1 configurations give better low to mid end torque than 4-1 but at what revs would the improvement come in?

Am i optimistic in hoping that the xforce 4-2-1 headers will give more toque around the 2000-5000rpm. I rarely hit VTEC so i would want all the improvement to come in below 5000rpm, preferably the lower rpm range the better.

So are the xforce 4-2-1 headers any good?

I already have a Mugen twinloop catback exhaust, so would there be any improvement as well in getting a high flow cat as well?

You get what you pay for. And Xforce are cheap headers.

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Originally Posted by aaronng

You get what you pay for. And Xforce are cheap headers.

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I understand that phrase but will it not make any difference in low down torque? Not enough to warrant the cost involved?

i kinda used to have that problem too , until i got my breating mods, i/h/e...

anywayz, just heal and toe into first gear, then take off . :P thats what do

If you want low down torque, then you are going to want to keep the stock headers and air filter.

The only way to improve low down torque on the H22A without a rebuild, and without changing camshafts and mucking with ECU tuning and what not - is to buy a Type S air intake.

I have one and it noticeably improved the low-down torque. That said, you still need to rev it to go anywhere - but it does pull that little bit more from 1500RPM or so to make it feel like there is actually something there.

I found that prior to the Type S intake, I'd need to be ~3000RPM to go anywhere... after the Type S intake, it is more like ~2500RPM - 500RPM might not sound like much, but it is that little bit that makes the difference at those very low speeds.

im kinda thinking u should also be runnning better fuel. u dont want to be rebuilding a h22 unless u have to. just run 98, dont skimp

If you compare the gear ratio & FD on the H22A boxes to say that of a B16A or B18C type R box, you will see the gearing on the b16a/b18c are a lot closer together with the help of a bigger FD. You notice this when you change from 2nd to 3rd the rev's drop considerably. Somewhere about almost 3000rpms... These motors make max torque at about 5000-5500 rpm, Honda has built the box to keep these engines within this power band to give it more of a smoother ride but at the same time keep the car usable torque without having to rev it too much. But i must admit they were a bit conservative. If you want more response, go for a lightened flywheel as the stock H one is quite heavy.. An upgrade to a 4.62 FD for the H box would be pretty good also.

This is where the idea of doing a H2B on civics/integras make it so attractive.