Running Rich

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15-02-2007, 01:17 PM
shebangs

Running Rich

Is it bad to run rich?

Went for a squirt just before, coming back my mate said I'm blowing black smoke out the back in VTEC. Bit of a search on ht.com says I'm running Rich on fuel. Car was fairly warn (was only a 5 min quiet drive, usually I like to ger her at least 10)

Mods are: i/h/e, dyno tuned s200, flywheel and clutch.

If it is running rich, is it bad? Could it be a sensor out of whack thats causing the the fuel maps to be wrong? It was recently tuned (6 months ago) so I can't imagine it was tuned purposely to run rich or is that a normal thing todo? (BLKCRX tuned it)

Matt
15-02-2007, 01:32 PM
JasonGilholme

Might need to change your PCV valve first before worrying about the tune. It's a cheaper solution and could possibly fix your problem before you go spending big bucks on re-tuning etc.
15-02-2007, 01:36 PM
EuroDude

A bit of black smoke during VTEC is normal, the engine does this to protect itself.
15-02-2007, 01:39 PM
JasonGilholme

I don't get black smoke? brand new ones don't blow smoke...
15-02-2007, 01:44 PM
aaronng

Your tune is set rich under vtec and full throttle so that your engine is protected from running too lean. You can gain more power at high RPM by going leaner (and having less black smoke), but you risk too high a combustion temperature, which can damage pistons, valves and spark plugs.
15-02-2007, 03:48 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by poid

even still, when warmed up properly there shouldnt be black smoke if its tuned right (even a little rich).

I wanna know if it does the same if he's driven it for a longer period. The oil often takes up to 10 mins to get up to temp and coolant gauges can be misleading.

I've seen a totally stock b16a2, fully warmed up, drive without smoke up to 5000rpm. When at full throttle 6000rpm, it blows a puff of black smoke at the beginning but then it clears up after that when it has gone to about 7500rpm. I reckon its set rich to protect the engine.
15-02-2007, 03:53 PM
EuroDude

And its not just a Honda thing, Ive seen new Commodores blow dark smoke when revved hard.
15-02-2007, 03:56 PM
shebangs

I don't have guages yet (Defi guages are coming) so my basis for assuming she was warm was Water Temp on the dash.

I didn't shift at my redline (8600) either, only took her too 7500.

I'm fairly confident I am running rich, as sometimes when I downshift my exhaust backfires and/or crackles. My question is though, wheres the limit to running rich, safety, but losing power. Is it damaging any other parts of my engine? Can I still assume shes tip top?

Toda Internals and Cams are next, and considering my setup pulls 115 at the wheels I'd like to think my engine was tip top before I pulled her apart.
15-02-2007, 04:35 PM
ginganggooly

You need to retune the car.

Contact DynoDave. He'll be up there in the next couple of weeks...
15-02-2007, 05:22 PM
shebangs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginganggooly

You need to retune the car.

Contact DynoDave. He'll be up there in the next couple of weeks...

So my initial tune was shithouse?
15-02-2007, 05:27 PM
EuroDude

Your Initial Tune is "Safe". You can retune it, but you may be risking engine damage if it runs too lean when revving high.
15-02-2007, 05:59 PM
ALLMTR996

Quote:

Originally Posted by ginganggooly

You need to retune the car.

Contact DynoDave. He'll be up there in the next couple of weeks...

Your a clown DD can only be contacted by e-mail now dave@redlinemotorsport.com.au
ALLMTR996
15-02-2007, 07:44 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by poid

the tune on a stock car and a good aftermarket tune are two very different things. If you've ever seen a stock datalog you'd know just how stupidly rich the stock tune can be. That is because its a generic tune for a variety of drivers, fuel quality and engines (stock engines will vary from the factory)

A good tune wont be so rich that you blow black smoke. Especially on an NA street car, they simply dont need to be run that rich. Even for 'safety'.

BTW the suggestion about checking the PCV is also a good one.

I reckon he should get his car retuned, with a dyno test before so we can find out the A/F ratio.
15-02-2007, 09:11 PM
shebangs

Tune sounds the go, but what other things COULD it be? What sensors should I look at? PCV? O²?

I might hold off and do my cam's at the same time as the next tune, I can't see the point in retuning without any changes. If the answer is truly 'for a safe tune' thats perfectly fine for me, I love my car so I don't mind, specially with it being a daily.

Matt
15-02-2007, 09:54 PM
aaronng

Well, check the O2 sensor.
15-02-2007, 10:39 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by poid

O2 will only have an effect in closed loop (ie part throttle), and should throw a code. So i doubt thats your problem

Accord Euros with O2 sensor failures don't throw a code for some reason.
15-02-2007, 10:55 PM
ACTI0NMAN-1

is your intake just the piping or did you change the intake manifold too?
16-02-2007, 12:15 AM
iced

oil temp takes 15min give or take 5 at least normal driving to normal temp depending on weather and driving style too.
water takes 3-5min
16-02-2007, 02:21 PM
shebangs

Quote:

Originally Posted by ACTI0NMAN-1

is your intake just the piping or did you change the intake manifold too?

Manifold is stock, but I'm currently looking for Skunk2 IM. Piping is Injen 1450.
16-02-2007, 03:08 PM
shebangs

I have my dyno printout, will that give us any more info? I'll scan it tonight and post it up.
16-02-2007, 04:16 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by shebangs

I have my dyno printout, will that give us any more info? I'll scan it tonight and post it up.

If it shows A/F ratios, then yes.