wrong front camber angle on lux 06

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05-06-2007, 04:23 PM
che_ryan

wrong front camber angle on lux 06

Recently my euro tend to pull to the right (quite badly) so i decided to take it to beaupaires to get wheel allignment done. At the end the guys told me that the something bent / knocked on the front end that causing wrong camber angle (+) on one side and (-) on the other side which will lead the streering to the right almost all the time. I honestly can't recall any incident that may knocked my front end. Anyone ever had this kind of issue before? I've already booked in a service on the dealer next wed.

Asking for ur opinion...do you think the dealer should take a look at this or is this something that easy enough for shop like pedders to take a look?

cheers
05-06-2007, 07:05 PM
yfin

So the car is still damaged - not clear from your post?
05-06-2007, 08:43 PM
avid

Sometimes repairers 'grasp at straws' and suggest possible component damage when they cant explain why something has happened.Not saying that is the case with yours,your car may have sustained damage before you took delivery,but pretty unlikely.Did they show you the bent component?Are your tyres wearing unevenly?Is your steering wheel 'straight'?How much is the camber out?
If you have only noticed this 'pulling' recently then mabye you (or another driver) has knocked the wheels or suspension on a gutter or pothole.In any event i would want to see whatever it is they reckon is bent.It does actually take a fair bit of force to knock out settings significantly.
If its not too obvious mabye Honda will cover it under warranty.I would try that before forking out money at a suspension shop that will certainly find something to charge you for !!
06-06-2007, 01:36 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

Recently my euro tend to pull to the right (quite badly) so i decided to take it to beaupaires to get wheel allignment done. At the end the guys told me that the something bent / knocked on the front end that causing wrong camber angle (+) on one side and (-) on the other side which will lead the streering to the right almost all the time. I honestly can't recall any incident that may knocked my front end. Anyone ever had this kind of issue before? I've already booked in a service on the dealer next wed.

Sounds more like toe rather than camber. Camber won't cause your steering to point to the right.
06-06-2007, 01:54 AM
STTICH

agreed that toe issue would hav more of an effect on pulling ur car left/right. but to have enuf toe in/out for ur car to b pulling to the right 'quite badly', ur tyres would have been making quite a bit of noticable noise already while accelerating, braking and slow turns.

havin said that, assuming proper allignment was done, toe issue shud hav been corrected.

apart from un-even tyre wear and pressure, it could well possibly be some damage components.

keep us posted.
06-06-2007, 02:08 AM
aaronng

If he didn't hit his wheel against the kerb, then this problem is probably similar to the one discussed in this thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22067
06-06-2007, 08:54 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid

Sometimes repairers 'grasp at straws' and suggest possible component damage when they cant explain why something has happened.Not saying that is the case with yours,your car may have sustained damage before you took delivery,but pretty unlikely.Did they show you the bent component?Are your tyres wearing unevenly?Is your steering wheel 'straight'?How much is the camber out?
If you have only noticed this 'pulling' recently then mabye you (or another driver) has knocked the wheels or suspension on a gutter or pothole.In any event i would want to see whatever it is they reckon is bent.It does actually take a fair bit of force to knock out settings significantly.
If its not too obvious mabye Honda will cover it under warranty.I would try that before forking out money at a suspension shop that will certainly find something to charge you for !!

Avid, i'm sure the car wasn't taking any damage on the delivery.....the beaupaires guys didn't show me the bent part...this issue has been there for about 2 weeks so i guess it won't have any effect on the tyres yet...aboiut the steering wheel...it wasn't straight before the wheel allignment, and it is now...BUT if you're not holding it it will move slightly to the right and car too..
I still remember correctly the guys told me that it is something with the camber not Toe..he said the camber looks like this now / / (<- bit extreme but something along the line of that).

In which case of i don't know what causing it...do you think dealer will put it under waranty job?

Arrong - i'm sure it's different from that driftting to the right issue on that thread...i believe this pulling to the right effect is much2 more obvious that what people describe there...

about the tyre noise...hmmm i think it's all sounds like ussual, can't notice any different noise or more noise from my driving today.

btw i'm taking my car to honda service next wednesday...hopefully it'll turn out minor and easy.....
06-06-2007, 09:06 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

Arrong - i'm sure it's different from that driftting to the right issue on that thread...i believe this pulling to the right effect is much2 more obvious that what people describe there...

On mine it was pretty obvious after lowering. I could let it change lanes on its own within 4 seconds when driving at 100km/h. Also, my arm got tired holding the car straight and I couldn't do so with only 1 hand even for medium journeys of 20 minutes.
06-06-2007, 09:37 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronng

On mine it was pretty obvious after lowering. I could let it change lanes on its own within 4 seconds when driving at 100km/h. Also, my arm got tired holding the car straight and I couldn't do so with only 1 hand even for medium journeys of 20 minutes.

geeez that's worse that what i presume before...I did read that drifting to the right thread month back and i kinda test that to my euro back then it was al right maybe a bit (can't even noticed that) but now it is there for SURE :( ...i started to realised it when my arm get really tired as well after driving from work (burwood - southbank)...
In my case i can change line in about +- 8 second ish at 60km/h annoying huh?

Maybe see what the honda dealer will tell me...wheter it is really somthing is bent or is it the famous drifting to the right case...ohh btw i'm still using the stock 2006 lux 17" wheels and tyres now
06-06-2007, 09:42 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

geeez that's worse that what i presume before...I did read that drifting to the right thread month back and i kinda test that to my euro back then it was al right maybe a bit (can't even noticed that) but now it is there for SURE :( ...i started to realised it when my arm get really tired as well after driving from work (burwood - southbank)...
In my case i can change line in about +- 8 second ish at 60km/h annoying huh?

Maybe see what the honda dealer will tell me...wheter it is really somthing is bent or is it the famous drifting to the right case...ohh btw i'm still using the stock 2006 lux 17" wheels and tyres now

It's probably the tyres. But complain to your dealer first and see if they are willing to give you tyres of a different brand. Otherwise, just rotate your current tyres.
06-06-2007, 09:48 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by aaronng

It's probably the tyres. But complain to your dealer first and see if they are willing to give you tyres of a different brand. Otherwise, just rotate your current tyres.

hmm...just did tyre rotation 2 month back on my 15k service actually..ohh well i'll keep you guys posted here....
06-06-2007, 08:57 PM
avid

Yes ,mabye like mine, a tyre rotation might help.Although if the camber is set as far 'positive' as i think you're suggesting that could certainly be a problem.
I see that another member is now complaining of the drift problem since he had his tyres rotated at the 30,000k service.
Try the dealer,but you will probably get the same response as me "yeah mate thats your wheel alignment,you've probably hit the gutter or something" "sorry, thats not covered by warranty".
How many K's your car done?
07-06-2007, 08:55 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by avid

Yes ,mabye like mine, a tyre rotation might help.Although if the camber is set as far 'positive' as i think you're suggesting that could certainly be a problem.
I see that another member is now complaining of the drift problem since he had his tyres rotated at the 30,000k service.
Try the dealer,but you will probably get the same response as me "yeah mate thats your wheel alignment,you've probably hit the gutter or something" "sorry, thats not covered by warranty".
How many K's your car done?

mine is 18K now....but in my case it is not the wheel allignment - since i've just done it this week...i just bit worries when the guy said - maybe something is bent or knocked out of place...which i can't recall anything of hitting kerb etc...so your drifting thing is rectified yet avid?
08-06-2007, 08:52 PM
DR HONDA

Take it back to the dealer and have the sub frame adjusted to correct the cambers, for eg if you have n/s/f -0.5 and o/s/f + 0.5 degree of camber then your front wheels would look like this / / so it will have a tedency to pull right. This will rectify your veering to the right.
09-06-2007, 12:43 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR HONDA

Take it back to the dealer and have the sub frame adjusted to correct the cambers, for eg if you have n/s/f -0.5 and o/s/f + 0.5 degree of camber then your front wheels would look like this / / so it will have a tedency to pull right. This will rectify your veering to the right.

DR honda thanks mate for the reply...a question: adjusting subframe won't be such a hard job right? will that need some part replace or just simply an adjustment task? just on the tight budget now can't afford those honda expensive charge :(
09-06-2007, 07:09 AM
DR HONDA

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

DR honda thanks mate for the reply...a question: adjusting subframe won't be such a hard job right? will that need some part replace or just simply an adjustment task? just on the tight budget now can't afford those honda expensive charge :(

Have you complained about this to your original selling dealer or are you the second owner? Subframe adjustment is a little bit of a mission.
09-06-2007, 07:23 AM
LXRY

Mine was doing similar drift to the right in 3-5 secs on a straight road at 5,000klm, honda dealer adjusted my subframe, did not drift on straight road any more, only under right camber, excessive !!. Ever since they adjusted my k-frame steering out also....K-frame only a band aid solution, to counter the pulling drifting to the right. Changed my tyres still pulling excessively right going to get my k-frame straightened seeing as I just changed tyres....if it's the bridgstone reo40's then should track straight again steering wheel should be straight then aswell....hope this works.

Do you have bridgestone reo40's?

Might not be your fault report it to your dealer, go in there with the knowledge you have from this forum about the drifting problem other euro's have, be firm.

Don't even mention anything bent or what alignment guy said, see what they say.

Keep us posted
09-06-2007, 08:33 PM
DR HONDA

Quote:

Originally Posted by LXRY

Mine was doing similar drift to the right in 3-5 secs on a straight road at 5,000klm, honda dealer adjusted my subframe, did not drift on straight road any more, only under right camber, excessive !!. Ever since they adjusted my k-frame steering out also....K-frame only a band aid solution, to counter the pulling drifting to the right. Changed my tyres still pulling excessively right going to get my k-frame straightened seeing as I just changed tyres....if it's the bridgstone reo40's then should track straight again steering wheel should be straight then aswell....hope this works.

Do you have bridgestone reo40's?

Might not be your fault report it to your dealer, go in there with the knowledge you have from this forum about the drifting problem other euro's have, be firm.

Don't even mention anything bent or what alignment guy said, see what they say.

Keep us posted

If the frame adjustment was carried out correctly and the front and rear toe reset to specs then this would not be a band aid solution. Moving the subframe left ar right does give camber changes when done on an aligner and not on a hoist.
10-06-2007, 06:30 AM
LXRY

..........

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR HONDA

If the frame adjustment was carried out correctly and the front and rear toe reset to specs then this would not be a band aid solution. Moving the subframe left ar right does give camber changes when done on an aligner and not on a hoist.

Are the K-frames set from factory straight? Are they meant to be straight? Are they meant to be moved? What went wrong with my car? Did the K-frame loosen? Is that why they adjusted it? Why would they need to adjust K-frame? Why is my steering wheel not centre, even after several wheel alignments...after K-frame adjustment? Can they get my car to track straight as it was brand new, remembering this happened at 5,000klm's by the adjustments they made by moving the K-frame? Is there room for error?

These are some of the questions I asked Honda Dealer and Honda Aust. when this happened. NO ANSWERs that's what I got.

If they are performing this task to counter act problems with REO40's then yes BAND AID solution. BAND AID solution because it's not the same as when I bought the car up until the 5,000klm mark, it's quite shocking actually. If the K-frame moved at the 5,000klm mark then they needed to straighten it again, this is not the case as my steering wheel was out, pointed at 10-12 o'clock after adjustment, i'm assuming. Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Not sure if K-frame adjustment could cause camber issue....could it affect castor? My steering wheel comes back quick and firm on left hand turn, but, right hand turn very weak, quite slow, especially more under right camber situation.

Not sure if it was performed on hoist, I'm assuming it was.

Maybe you can help answer some of these questions Dr Honda? Your knowledge would be greatly appreciated on this issue :thumbsup:
11-06-2007, 11:36 AM
che_ryan

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR HONDA

Have you complained about this to your original selling dealer or are you the second owner? Subframe adjustment is a little bit of a mission.

i've already told my seeling dealer - plan is this wed for me to bring my euro there.

Not sure if K-frame adjustment could cause camber issue....could it affect castor? My steering wheel comes back quick and firm on left hand turn, but, right hand turn very weak, quite slow, especially more under right camber situation.

and i think i might have experience the same thing that luxry posted above as well. I'll post some more info after wed...see what this honda techies can find out.
11-06-2007, 11:57 AM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

Not sure if K-frame adjustment could cause camber issue....could it affect castor? My steering wheel comes back quick and firm on left hand turn, but, right hand turn very weak, quite slow, especially more under right camber situation.

That's normal. If the road has right camber, of course it's going to return much weaker from a right hand turn. It's better to check your steering on straight road as that will give your dealer one less avenue of "debunking" your problem.
11-06-2007, 11:59 AM
DR HONDA

Quote:

Originally Posted by che_ryan

i've already told my seeling dealer - plan is this wed for me to bring my euro there.

Not sure if K-frame adjustment could cause camber issue....could it affect castor? My steering wheel comes back quick and firm on left hand turn, but, right hand turn very weak, quite slow, especially more under right camber situation.

and i think i might have experience the same thing that luxry posted above as well. I'll post some more info after wed...see what this honda techies can find out.

Euros dont have k frames but are considered a full chassis subframe mounted on rubber bushings to give you an adjustment if required. When you have your vehicle aligned then ask the dealer for the w/a printout after the job is done. If unsure of what it means and car is still not right then post it up and ill give you my thoughts.
As for the RE040 this veering issue is not only particular to the 17" rim but also to the 16" so definetely not a tyre issue.
11-06-2007, 01:16 PM
iced

also check caster
this is what can also cause pulling to one side when caster is uneven.

when the car is put put on to get an alignment a good technician can see whats wrong.
11-06-2007, 08:58 PM
aaronng

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR HONDA

As for the RE040 this veering issue is not only particular to the 17" rim but also to the 16" so definetely not a tyre issue.

The 16" owners sometimes confuse this issue with tramlining. I find that it happens on 16" if your car is lowered enough to get the rear alignment out of spec (with no rear camber kit installed).
13-06-2007, 01:14 PM
che_ryan

More news on my 'pulling to the right' issue. Put my car at dealer this morning, and i've just get a called that it is now finished and ready..Honda technician said that the wheel allignment is way way out of whack (even tough i did the wheel allignment 2 weeks ago at beaupaires weird huh?) anyway they also rotate the tires and done another wheel allignment. and also mention that the tires is affected by the wheel allignment in some degrees (after certain time riding with out of whack allignement) so then pulling to the right issue can't be rectified 100% (it still there a bit - he said) UNTIL i get a new set of tires (car is 18 K now). What do you think guys? reasonable?

I haven't try the car myself, going to pick it up soon today...i'll post some more info after i drive the car today.

cheers
13-06-2007, 08:21 PM
aaronng

Did you ask them for an alignment printout (at both the dealer and at Beaurepairs)?

I prefer Tyrepower or Bob Jane over Beaurepairs.
13-06-2007, 09:06 PM
che_ryan

i've driven my euro feels much better, 'pulling to the right' almost gone, still a bit but almost completely gone. the dealer show me the allignment printout, it shows the beaupaires allignment was completely wrong...the issue was down to the tires, it worn out on the outside a lot, the fact that its unidirectional it make it even worse. I'll look on different tires when the current one need to retired :D . Overall not a bad outcome for me. I'll get the wheel allignment print posted tomorow maybe.