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Hey guys, is it possibly to run a coilpack system on an engine that uses a dizzy? eg efi D or B series?.
obviously there would be advantages of coil packs especially at high rpm but, is there a kit on the market to make this possible on a dizzy motor? if so what is out there and aproximate price? pros and cons?
anyother feedback and recommendations would be more then welcome
Regards Lyle
*off topic
If drag cars and racing cars around the world use OEM leads / ignition , doesnt that tell you something ? That you should spend your money elsewhere :)
you can, you need ecu hardware modifications which will be able to drive the coilpacks rather than one coil.
i personally don't see a point unless the stock system is terrible. you can use bike coil sticks for each plug, but finding someone who can wire it all up for you might be tricky, the dizzy is just blanked off and the CAS is used for the spark timing.
unless you go for those msd units that do their own jazz.
mmm im more worried about the effectiveness of the standard dizzy at high boost / high rpm... weather they can give a full charge spark or start fadeing off?
Anyone know how say a coilpack system would compare to a Digital dizzy system ? (Msg external Blaster coil, SCI box with all the multi-disscharge fire etc)
the dizzy isn't the problem at high rpm, it's the coil.
invest in a jacobs coil and you'll be fine
you wouldn't notice the levels in drop in spark anyway, unless it's some serious spark blowout...run colder plugs and get a decent coil.
exactly!Quote:
Originally Posted by Chr1s
it's because of the increased air density from boost, misfire occurs because spark current isn't strong enough to make aspark and bridge the gap...
he is also right on the money with colder plugs and decent coil being more than sufficient... multi-spark from digital systems only occur at lower revs for torque but have a bigger spark instead for higher rpm which a coil upgrade can do... i doubt very much your getting misfires below 4krpm unless either your plug/lead is dead/dying.
If you get the MSD Ignition System you won't be dissapointed.It's a great Mod,makes the car So smooth.
makes me wanna get a exertnal coil now.
lol.
Get the whole MSD system :)
woops, that's me in my mates acc.Quote:
Originally Posted by dzyn3
lol.
Hahahahaaaa! Get the whole MSD system destrukshn.
msd, you reckon?
gonna have to do some research into this aye
lol.
]love your av btw.
lol.
Yeah so true ay!
If you look at people's opinions on these you will only hear 'it's a waste of money' but like I said earlier,have they had it on thier car.No.I know like everyone has heard the stock ignition system is good for up tp 400hp.This dosen't make the MSD system a waste of money.I speaking from experince and I've heard from other's that have got it.What it does is make your car real smooth and nice and sensitive accelerator,smooth idle etc etc SMOOOTH is the word here :).It's not hard to hook up yourself either.I reckon the more powerful the car the benefit you will see from it because it gives you much better combustion.
^^agreed, too many people on this forum are "honda this, race builder that"..goes along the lines of my sig... aftermarket ignitions are a pretty good investment.. as i've mentioned in another thread, i've gained 4wkw from just upgrading the coil and widening the plug gap on an sr20 on the same dyno... i have just a coil upgrade now on my b16 and the response is noticable...
destrukshn: try a coil upgrade first before getting the full multispark system... coil upgrades already provide a massive boost in spark current BUT aren't recommended for prolonged high-rpm use (which you most likely wont do in your boosted car) coz it can't charge quick enough to full power before discharging and lowers the lifespan of it....
and if you decide you do require it you can get the cdi which can use your upgraded coil.
Exactly.Your sig is xactly what I'm saying.I was member on d-series.org for a couple of years and they are like that,all patting each others backs and ganging up on someone who's opinions differ from thier's.This attitude makes people afraid to speak up and then they just follow what everyone else says.Sad,but that's in America.Lets not let that happen on ozhonda.Not that it would anyways :)
The coil will be good but the full system will be better :)
just to stir your pots - i have tested this myself and heard the opinions /. experiences from more than 10 pros ~ Its not what ive simply heard. While ignition upgrades does have a benefit ,
Its official that the (good working order) Honda ignition system is fine for all applications. IMO there are better things to spend money on :)
Like taking ya girl out to a fancy restuarant :)
All applications? even high powered turbo?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
That ive seen (which means , over the years of seeing with my own eyes , or on the interweb etc) i havent seen too many applications that use aftermarket ignition.Also discussed briefly with some tuners / racers here in oz and overseas. But thats just my experience and opinion. Use this like you want. The fact remains is OEM ignition is fine for many applications :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SLOWEGG
TO keep this on topic in regards to the original post , Does anyone here have a coilpack system rec. for this setup ? Any actual experience with ignition for these turboed D series ?
fair enough as i am not one to doubt ur knowledge and experience...Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
however to highlight your last sentence, this is what i will say to some others in this forum...
I would rather spend $100 on a coil upgrade than $300 on an intake system... nuff said.
Sorry, I agree with Bennjamin
Stock ignition systems should be sufficient, the furthest i'd go is upgrading the coil for $130 using a jacobs coil (more than enough on your boosted D)
Why spend so much on an aftermarket ignition system ? spend that on a water injection setup and push your timing through the roof and gain 5 times that of the ignition system....be smart with these modifications
water injection on a turbo car > upgraded ignition.
this was just an example, i can think of 50 other things you can spend your money on.
trust me, i speak from experiance...uprgade the coil (IF YOU MUST) and look into other things.
Thats fair enough , its your opinion. But the truth is neither do anything lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsp26
Updating your ignition is something only the most serious should consider.
I :love: my MSD :D
Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
LoL that shit is alwayes going on here. Except the majority is made up of many alias accoutsused to flame and hate other members & Traders, because the real users wont do it themselves, make the majority look bigger then what it is or make there real accounts look bad. pathetic hey...
i know exactly what you mean man
Thanks for all the replys. For what i have found so far (reading not personal experience) isthe honda oem coils are weak at high rpm and boost, dont have enough time to recharge to 100% strength compared to at lower rpm. This in theory could rob you of power and even cause a missfire.
However i too have spoken to many creditable people on this topic. Some have said compelte waste of time others said its absolutely essential to a all out build. i know i will be mofidying my ignition some how, but not sure to what extent yet.
i've gone and got a MSD coil kit also. Its coming from the states so i'll let you know if i notice any difference
really what box and coil are you going with?
beeza: so as to not waste your money yet... do the build then do a dyno run.
you will notice HINTS of ignition breakdown on the curve when it gets noticably jagged instead of a smooth curve.
benjaamin: I only half agree that even coil upgrades don't do much, but the people who do install it on mild setups dont utilise it properly. sure on my setup as is now I don't/won't need it, but with increased spark current, I am able to take advantage of it by increasing my plug gap. As is now i am running 1.7mm gaps on my iridiums all the way to 9krpm.
I have seen dyno proven gains on many NA applications but it is not high rpm where it gains, the peak 4wkw gain i managed on my sr20 was in the midrange. by increasing the spark gap and taking advantage of the coil, it resulted in a better burn also backed up by slight A/F leaning in the area, which is when i also increased fuel pressure a tad...so i could say the coil didn't directly add performance but there are ways of 'tuning'.. or should i say tweaking a cars performance without touching the ecu... a combination of good parts goes a long way as all should know.
How big of a spark plug gap can or should I be running on mine?
don't know... as theres other variables like cylinder pressure during compression yada yada...Quote:
Originally Posted by beeza
not recommending my method and i suggest you don't, but i was pushing mine in 0.2mm increments using gapping tool and verniers until i came to a happy 1.7mm gap and 17* timing & 36psi fuel pressure with no ping.
get the car moving slightly on slight incline and putting WOT on 5th gear... you will feel it misfire.... once again NOT RECOMMENDED.
If you really must, set it to 1.3mm during summer... if theres no sign of ping, increase it to 1.5mm.
on another note, the factory coil managed to run my plugs at 1.3mm with only slight misfire at 4th gear load in mid rpm.
DISCLAIMER: my methods above are risky and are a guide only, i knew what i was doing as i've done it a few times to a few different cars but there are risks invovled in forcing ping/misfire in your car. the ones i did to mine and friends cars were tweaked back to back on dynos... my curernt setup on the b16a2 hasn't, event hough it 'feels great' singing to 9krpm, i can't tell if theres even the slightest ignition breakdown and can't tell you till i dyno again.
Sweet,Cheers mate.