Worth converting to HID considering insurance implications?

hey all,

bought an '08 civic (havent taken delivery yet) and also bought new headlight housing and HID conversion kits for the car. No insurance company will insure a car with anything illegal on it, so it begs the question: is it worth fitting these to my car or not?

there are two options i see:

fit it to my car and dont tell the insurance company, but they may turn around and tell me my policy is void in the event of a claim

OR

dont fit it to my car and just use a high kelvin halogen bulb instead.

i don't know how closely they are going to look at the car in the event of an accident, and it may well be fine to put the kit onto my car and hope they don't find it. then again, if i dont list the modification to the lighting and there IS an accident, is it possible to have them only cover the car as if it were stock and not cover the extra cost of the lights?

not sure on any of this, anyone else got any ideas?

it's hard to choose. mods and insurance/warranty can't blend together.
if u won't take a risk, just get philips bluevison bulb.

My technician and another repairer told me this will happen if you install HID:
1. Insurance wont cover it if its broken (e.g. in an accident) but will restore your headlight, so all you need to do is buy a new bulb. Other alternatives is find an insurance comp that cover this (e.g. justcar)
2. If anything wrong with your car electric (eventhough its nothing related to the HID), Honda can say that it was caused by the HID installation thus will void the warranty.

Any1 can reconfirm this?

i dont mind if they don't cover it if it's broken, the stories i've heard are that the insurance company will try and find any little thing to try and avoid paying out on the policy, so if i had it on the car and didnt list it as a mod, they would use that as an excuse not to pay. i have been looking at Just Car and spoke to them on the phone, they are the ones telling me they wont insure any vehicle with anything illegal on it.

as for honda reneging on their warranty, i will just change the lights back to the original and then say the electrical problem arose, so they can't avoid it if i do that i dont think.

i can't help with ins, but if you do change to HID the excess heat can melt the light manifold. and any problems that are a result of light directly will be void of warranty.
Dealers don't pay for warranty issues but they do get auditted by honda for all warranty claims.
I am putting them in my FN2. don't buy anythink thats not german or jap. including fittings.

have a read on this: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf

I think it says modifying light or adding extra lights (fog and driving lights) is a minor modification which doesnt need to be reported to RTA. but dunno if i read it clearly...

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Originally Posted by denot

have a read on this: http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registrati...s_nov_2007.pdf

I think it says modifying light or adding extra lights (fog and driving lights) is a minor modification which doesnt need to be reported to RTA. but dunno if i read it clearly...

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thats the same as over here in WA, adding additional lighting doesnt require approval, but that doesn't include HID :(

i think that if you are considering doing it to contact your ins provider.

argh this annoys the hell out of me. i just spoke to Just Car again and asked them if i do put on subsequent illegal mods, what happens and they will only say "the car might not be covered" and that's it. i am guessing i shouldn't fit the lights then...unless someone can come up with a loophole for me? :P

^ that sounds really stupid.

In basic form it's:

Will an insurance company cover me if I drive a car with illegal mods?

C'mon... No they won't - they are out there to make money not be your friend. But what makes it illegal to have HIDs? Is there a way to have legal HIDs? It's either that or stick with normal halogen.

well this wont make it legal, but i will be installing HIDs on my eagle eyes. Atleast it will be projected and wont be blinding oncoming traffic. Ive driven past 2 civics fd with HIDs and OMFG its blinding.

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Originally Posted by markCivicVti

^ that sounds really stupid.

In basic form it's:

Will an insurance company cover me if I drive a car with illegal mods?

C'mon... No they won't - they are out there to make money not be your friend. But what makes it illegal to have HIDs? Is there a way to have legal HIDs? It's either that or stick with normal halogen.

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to me, the purpose of insurance is to cover the value of the car, and i don't care if they cover the stock standard value of the car, and replace the equipment with stock standard stuff should there be an accident. i realise they aren't out to be my friend, but then again they don't have to take my money and not be upfront if they are going to cover it or not either. if they don't want to cover it, let me know and i will look elsewhere for insurance.

HID kits are illegal if they aren't a standard option by the manufacturer, and if it is an aftermarket system, then the headlight unit needs auto levelers and headlight washers as well. The only legal way to have HIDs is to buy them with the car stock or have a professional system installed at great cost.

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Originally Posted by Danese

i can't help with ins, but if you do change to HID the excess heat can melt the light manifold. and any problems that are a result of light directly will be void of warranty.
Dealers don't pay for warranty issues but they do get auditted by honda for all warranty claims.
I am putting them in my FN2. don't buy anythink thats not german or jap. including fittings.

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HIDs run cooler than halogen bulbs.

for me, insurance is for body panel repair.
warranty is for engine.
so if u got accident, just go to panel beater and fix. i don't think they gonna check ur HID. My brother car just claimed insurance for hitting the tree, just go to NRMA center, check all the damage, and ask to go to our repairer, and that's it.

i've been waiting for this thread for a while now, I'm glad it's began. Someone just a few posts ago said HID can melt the housing. Are you saying that The Accord Euro for example has a stronger plastic for the housing, or a different heat resistant material?

Wilkie, you said you bought a new HID housing, I'm assuming this was a premade retrofit off ebay, probably with angel eyes, is that correct? If so, I'm tempted to buy one myself as premade HIDs with projectors already retrofitted seem to be hard to come by in Oz. I have heard there have been some problems with them being poorly retrofitted without a waterproofing sealer properly and of them getting fogged up very easily, as well as fuse blowout problems due to the HIDs using a higher voltage without upgrading the fuse.

I agree with DMX though, as I've thought about this topic long and hard. Body repairs would be fixed by someone at a repair shop without needing to analyse your lights. I think properly retrofitted HIDs with projectors would probably be the stealthiest part of an illegal mod for a car if properly fitted (as they look stock), unless water got into the High voltage lines and screwed the engine bay system, in which case you'd have to go through that engine/warranty nightmare with the Insurance company or Honda specifically if the engine is covered by them instead.

HIDs do actually run cooler than halogen bulbs, so there is no need for a different heat resistant material for the housing. The housing I bought is actually not a dodgy retrofit but a proper replacement unit and has the same waterproof sealing as my stock headlamps.

I haven't fitted mine yet, but a friend bought the same housing and HIDs and it looks real schmick and he has had no water issues at all. properly fitted headlights would definitely be the stealthiest part of an illegal mod and the power lines to the HIDs would need to both be protected well and hidden well. I have seen some excellent jobs done where you just cannot find the cabling or even tell they aren't stock (without considering the fact u know the vehicle manufacturer doesn't supply that option for headlights) so you do need to either do a good DIY job or have someone do it for you really well.

if you dont report it to insurance, if you ever do need to make a claim i highly doubt they will void your insurance because of bulbs. the only thing you should worry about is if it stuff up your electronics [which happened in my friends 350z] which will then void the warranty on the car electronics.
it shouldn't be much of a problem but.

hmm if i have a '07 civic vti would i need to get a housing unit or projectors or m HIDs?

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Originally Posted by howy

hmm if i have a '07 civic vti would i need to get a housing unit or projectors or m HIDs?

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well what are you after howy? if you want projector headlights, you will need to replace the current housing with a housing that has projector lenses etc. if you just want HIDs you can buy HID conversion kits that will let you run them through your existing headlight units :)

ahh ok.

well i've got a set of HIDs as a present from my cousins in china.

do you need special connections to connect them up to the existing headlight units?

they didn't bring the box either but from what i can figure out, there's 2 bulbs (series 9006 not sure what that means), 2 boxes (i think those are the starters or ballasts) and 2 other cables.

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Originally Posted by howy

ahh ok.

well i've got a set of HIDs as a present from my cousins in china.

do you need special connections to connect them up to the existing headlight units?

they didn't bring the box either but from what i can figure out, there's 2 bulbs (series 9006 not sure what that means), 2 boxes (i think those are the starters or ballasts) and 2 other cables.

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well first you have to make sure they are the right sort for your car. read the manual about what your low and high beam bulbs are for your vehicle, because if they are the wrong sort on the HIDs you have, you may need special connectors or they may not even work at all (someone else will have to clarify this).

sounds like you have pairs of everything, so you would be wanting to replace your low beams with the HIDs you received (assuming they are the right size) :)

so what's the legal aspect of installing HID's?

I thought you could install any headlights provided that it doesn't annoy on-coming traffic.

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Originally Posted by howy

so what's the legal aspect of installing HID's?

I thought you could install any headlights provided that it doesn't annoy on-coming traffic.

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haha nah it's not that simple, because what "annoys" oncoming drivers is very subjective. HID headlights need a full washing system and need to be auto levelling, without those two things they are flat out illegal. people get around it by tilting theirs down so they dont blind oncoming drivers, and im sure there are some other tricks so they aren't caught out.

does the RTA specify this anywhere or is this just a trend that all new cars have on theirs?

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Originally Posted by howy

does the RTA specify this anywhere or is this just a trend that all new cars have on theirs?

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Dictated by the ADR (Australian Design Rules).

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Originally Posted by howy

does the RTA specify this anywhere or is this just a trend that all new cars have on theirs?

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i dont follow what u mean, but neonode is right...i am in WA and our vehicle services do stipulate that HID lighting systems without washers and auto levelers are illegal :(

i see, well i'm in nsw but should be the same i suppose.

hmm I thought this would've been cheap and easy.

how much does one of these auto levelling systems cost as well as the washers?

I looked into HID's and decided to fit good quality driving lights instead, even though it looks a little over the top. I can now see up to 1/2 a km at night, and the fitment was inspected and passed ok by RACQ

everything is illegal in aus lolz

Before fitting after-market HIDs please read this - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

There are NO legal HID kits, despite what the sellers say.

Fitting a HID kit, or blue-tinted bulbs just for the 'blue' look is some of the most pathetic ricer shit I've ever heard of. People that are happy to blind other road users in the name of being 'fully sik' sadden me greatly.

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Originally Posted by one4spl

Before fitting after-market HIDs please read this - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/t...nversions.html

There are NO legal HID kits, despite what the sellers say.

Fitting a HID kit, or blue-tinted bulbs just for the 'blue' look is some of the most pathetic ricer shit I've ever heard of. People that are happy to blind other road users in the name of being 'fully sik' sadden me greatly.

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Auto Express? Quids? DOT? English?

1. Are road rules in English the same with the one in Australia?
2. 1st two paragraph already wrong!!! It says Philips doesnt produce the HID kits, bla blabla... check the official Philips website (http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/...ucts/xenon.php) is this the fake Philips website?

Ok, I agree that HIDs might be illegal in Australia... but the thing is if you can, somehow, house the head light so it give the same ammount of light and the same angle as the OEM one (our Civic FDs should have almost the same angle and glares as the OEM Euros) then I think it should be fine. If its already the same but ppl still angry at it, then does this means that ppl will still beaming on Euros?

Buddah: Hey buddah, regarding "good quality driving lights" enlightened me plz... (e.g. never heard of this thing before... :p)

[
Buddah: Hey buddah, regarding "good quality driving lights" enlightened me pls.

Denot.........i had a pair of lightforce driving lights fitted.

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Originally Posted by denot

Auto Express? Quids? DOT? English?

1. Are road rules in English the same with the one in Australia?
2. 1st two paragraph already wrong!!! It says Philips doesnt produce the HID kits, bla blabla... check the official Philips website (http://www.nam.lighting.philips.com/...ucts/xenon.php) is this the fake Philips website?

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1. Daniel Stern's articles isn't just related to one country.

PS. Australia conforms to ECE Regulations

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What about the law, what does it have to say on the matter? In virtually every first-world country, HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps are illegal. They're illegal clear across Europe and in all of the many countries that use European ECE headlight regulations. They're illegal in the US and Canada. Some people dismiss this because North American regulations, in particular, are written in such a manner as to reject a great many genuinely good headlamps. Nevertheless, on the particular count of HID "retrofits" into halogen headlamps, the world's regulators and engineers all say DON'T!

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2. Actually you're wrong...

The link you provided to the Philips website refers to their xenon bulbs, no mention of a kit at all.

whoops my bad neonode... you got me again there...

oh well, regarding the HID kit... I think it just like what NeoNode said... Better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it. :p

eagle eyes will solve all the problems :p

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Originally Posted by Shimian

eagle eyes will solve all the problems :p

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How would eagle eyes solve the problem?

If you're gonna have HIDs in them then it still wouldn't be legal right?

is there any way to retrofit a self-levelling and washing system to aftermarket retrofitted projectors?

I'd guess that you would still have to get your modded headlight engineer approved after installing the leveller and washer.

For those after actual performance from their headlights I highly recommend adjusting them accurately. If your car has ever been in an accident then the headlights almost certainly need re-aligning.

Have a read of this - http://www.international-auto.com/in...m?fa=ad&aid=54

One thing that’s wrong with that article is that it states “Now, make a new horizontal line ("H2") parallel to and 3 inches lower than H1.“ Rather than taking an arbitrary 3” you should used the % dip marked on your lamps and calculate how far below the H1 line that H2 should be. For example on my Euro its 1.3%. So if the wall you are adjusting your lights on is 3M (300cm)away, then the H2 line should be –

300 X 0.013 = 3.9CM

The lights on most cars have a little cross-hair style marking on the lens that gives you an accurate point to measure the height of your lights so you can mark your measuring wall accurately.

The lights on the Euro are one moulding for high and low beam, so in that case you get the low beams right, and high beam should follow. Getting low beam right is your first priority on any car. The low beams should line up with the H2 line (a the specified % dip) and the high beam should line up with H1, or exactly parallel to the ground. The kink in the low beam should line up directly in front of each lamp (horizontally), as should the centre of the high beam. As the article says its easiest to cover each light in turn and adjust the other.

There is more good info about aiming on the Daniel Stern site - And - http://www.danielsternlighting.com/tech/aim/aim.html

Note that both sites are referring to LHD markets, as Australia is RHD you will expect the beam to tilt up to the left, not the right as in the diagrams on both of those sites. The Euro HID projector lights have a step rather than a tilt, the beam should be adjusted vertically to the lower (right hand) level, with the step adjusted horizontally to be directly in front of each lamp.

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Originally Posted by howy

How would eagle eyes solve the problem?

If you're gonna have HIDs in them then it still wouldn't be legal right?

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i was joking. It doesnt solve the problem. It is my current mod hopefully to be installed a few weeks with HIDs. :p It will be much better than stock lamps fitted with HIDs

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Originally Posted by Shimian

i was joking. It doesnt solve the problem. It is my current mod hopefully to be installed a few weeks with HIDs. :p It will be much better than stock lamps fitted with HIDs

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i have plenty of friends (who are mainly cheap :P) who would say stock lamps are better, but i definitely agree that projector headlamps are fantastic ^_^

lol, love the way you used the words cheap and stock together :p

just another question, does the stock '07 civic vti have reflectors or projectors?

all 8th gen civics come with reflectors

yeah. IT'S A JOKE!! I wish the civic's could've been built better. Especially the rims, what a joke. 15 inch? and 65 profile?? It makes anyone who wants to put 18s or 19s on face the danger of badly working ABS brakes which would take ages to work. At least Holden commodores etc come standard with 17s and the 19 inch upgrades on them are actually legal. shame on you Honda Civic manufacturers!!!

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Originally Posted by SaBReT00tH

yeah. IT'S A JOKE!! I wish the civic's could've been built better. Especially the rims, what a joke. 15 inch? and 65 profile?? It makes anyone who wants to put 18s or 19s on face the danger of badly working ABS brakes which would take ages to work. At least Holden commodores etc come standard with 17s and the 19 inch upgrades on them are actually legal. shame on you Honda Civic manufacturers!!!

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Commodores with 17's don't cost $20,000 ish + ORC either.

How on earth does having 15 inch tyres reflect the build quality of the vehicle?

And please explain why the ABS system would not work correctly, if someone replace the stock wheels with 18 inch rims with 215-225/40 r18 profile tyres on.

Like the saying goes, you get what you paid for...

PS. Wasn't this topic about HID's?

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Originally Posted by NeoNode

PS. Wasn't this topic about HID's?

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Nice one there NeoNode!!! :p back to the topic... what do you guys think about putting Angel Eyes + Xenon Bulb (instead of HID)?

i say go with the angel eyes, and think a bit on how white/blue u want ur lights. halogens are the dullest, xenon gas filled bulbs are whiter and HIDs are the whitest. it all depends on looks. i think also xenon gas filled bulbs burn the hottest, but not sure.

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Originally Posted by wilkie

i say go with the angel eyes, and think a bit on how white/blue u want ur lights. halogens are the dullest, xenon gas filled bulbs are whiter and HIDs are the whitest. it all depends on looks. i think also xenon gas filled bulbs burn the hottest, but not sure.

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I think you've go a bit confused!

Xenon gas filled bulbs and HIDs are one and the same thing. They do not have a fillament like halogen-tungsten bulbs.

Xenon gas filled HIDs run cooler than traditional halogen-tungsten bulbs.

From a legal point of view.......it is not worth it IMO to fit the washers and self leveling unless the car you have has that as an option (even then it will be $$$). Don't forget that it is not just the self leveling motor but also the sensor you need to install which actuates the motor.

well this "HID is illegal" rules is almost too vague!!! I know a person who got his car deffected but from the "list" of items that the police give him, his 10,000 K HID is not on the list!!! also, My bro has a 8,000L HID installed on his civic for more than 5 years already, got caught speeding, RBT, etc etc but not even a single comment on the HID!!!

What I want to do here is to install the AE because I like the look of it, but dont want to spend $$ for the HID kit (you have to be cheapo if you want to get married in a few months!!!).

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Originally Posted by wynode

I think you've go a bit confused!

Xenon gas filled bulbs and HIDs are one and the same thing. They do not have a fillament like halogen-tungsten bulbs.

Xenon gas filled HIDs run cooler than traditional halogen-tungsten bulbs.

From a legal point of view.......it is not worth it IMO to fit the washers and self leveling unless the car you have has that as an option (even then it will be $$$). Don't forget that it is not just the self leveling motor but also the sensor you need to install which actuates the motor.

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umm nooooo, you can buy xenon gas filled halogen bulbs which are totally different to HIDs. you are right HIDs run cooler than halogens, but we aren't talking about HIDs running hotter, it is the xenon gas filled halogen bulbs that run hotter.

as for the legal point of view, you cant put together your own HID system using different parts and it be legal, even if it inclused a self levelling or washer system. it needs to be passed by the ADR peeps and that will take a lot of testing and other shite (like taking ur car to canberra) and no guarantee it will conform to their rules.

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Originally Posted by denot

well this "HID is illegal" rules is almost too vague!!! I know a person who got his car deffected but from the "list" of items that the police give him, his 10,000 K HID is not on the list!!! also, My bro has a 8,000L HID installed on his civic for more than 5 years already, got caught speeding, RBT, etc etc but not even a single comment on the HID!!!

What I want to do here is to install the AE because I like the look of it, but dont want to spend $$ for the HID kit (you have to be cheapo if you want to get married in a few months!!!).

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denot, cops don't really bust people for them that often cos they are aimed down and cops are dumb pigs who don't know which cars come with them stock anyway, so can't risk pulling someone over for something that might actually not be illegal (unless they are blinding people or purple etc). ur right it is way too vague, i rang my ever so helpful road and traffic authority to find out if i could install HIDs and he told me to go to university for 7 years, get a law degree then go fight the ADR for my right to self installed HIDs.

that's fair enough about what ur after (though u might wanna spend up big on what YOU want now, wifey ain'g gonna let you spend your money on what you want after ur hitched :P) so i would suggest go with the angel eyes and use normal halogens, if they aren't bright enough, save up for HIDs cos they are well worth it.

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Originally Posted by wilkie

i would suggest go with the angel eyes and use normal halogens, if they aren't bright enough, save up for HIDs cos they are well worth it.

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or pm you and buy the AE + HID off you? :p

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Originally Posted by wynode

I think you've go a bit confused!

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Acutally HID lights are technically called Metal Halide Discharge, and the Xenon is just there to improve initial start performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlig...nd_bi-xenon.29

Real Xenon lamps - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_arc_lamp

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Originally Posted by denot

or pm you and buy the AE + HID off you? :p

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lol or that :P

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Originally Posted by wilkie

umm nooooo, you can buy xenon gas filled halogen bulbs which are totally different to HIDs. you are right HIDs run cooler than halogens, but we aren't talking about HIDs running hotter, it is the xenon gas filled halogen bulbs that run hotter.

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Got a link? Didn't know they used both Xenon and Halogen.

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Originally Posted by one4spl

Acutally HID lights are technically called Metal Halide Discharge, and the Xenon is just there to improve initial start performance.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Headlig...nd_bi-xenon.29

Real Xenon lamps - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xenon_arc_lamp

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No offence but anyone can throw in Wikipedia links. Need to explain it a bit more.

There are essentially two types of light sources used in cars now a days and when I say "HID" I am reffering to a light source created by an electic arc within a gas, as opposed to that created by a filament (incandescent lamps).

Well, my point was that none of the bulbs in a car are really xenon... and that all uses, either for HIDs or incandescent bulbs, are wrong. technically.

just google it about the heat wynode...i dont wanna throw in wikipedia links ;)

Meh... i think I started this Xenon vs HID thingy... anyway, when I mention HID, what I mean is the HID kits (not only the bulb) which can reach more than 5,000K and when I mention Xenon bulb, what I mean is just the Xenon bulb (e.g. Philips Blue vision, etc) that cant reach beyond 5,000K.

well... that is what I mean when I say "I want to install AE + Xenon only (not the HID)" :p

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Originally Posted by denot

Meh... i think I started this Xenon vs HID thingy... anyway, when I mention HID, what I mean is the HID kits (not only the bulb) which can reach more than 5,000K and when I mention Xenon bulb, what I mean is just the Xenon bulb (e.g. Philips Blue vision, etc) that cant reach beyond 5,000K.

well... that is what I mean when I say "I want to install AE + Xenon only (not the HID)" :p

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yeh figured that ^_^...i still say save up for HID :P xenon bulbs are still pretty bright tho so if u want to get both together, get the bulbs :)