The latest craze...
Are they that good? has anyone got back to back dyno graphs for them compared to something like say JDM 4-1?
Is there any sacrifice in power in any range over the traditional 421 or 41?
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The latest craze...
Are they that good? has anyone got back to back dyno graphs for them compared to something like say JDM 4-1?
Is there any sacrifice in power in any range over the traditional 421 or 41?
do you mean tri hard headers
hahahahaha
YES i woulod like to know the same.. coz im running jdm 4-1 atm. and wanna join in the latest craze.. but really dont wanna sacrifice anything atm powerwise.
but yeah..
Blitz u talking about the hytek or bc?
Bang for buck headers for a b18c 1.8L.
For 1.6L we havn't test them yet, but i heard toda headers are one of the best headers for a B16a 1.6L
I thought Tri Y's are 4-2-1 ?? :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
Tri Y merges Ports 1-3 as oppose to traditional 1-4..Quote:
Originally Posted by Nepolian
*Correction
So are 1-4 not merged? Or is it merged 2-3 and 1-4, just like 4-2-1 headers? :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
actually..
Tri Y
its ports 1-3 2-4 at the secondaries
Traditionally... its
1-4, 2-3 at the secondaries
tri Y merge the first 2 early and then merge the last 2 very far down the track.
Supose to reduce turbulance for better flow
Hmm, wouldn't a tuned length 1-4, 2-3 have less turbulence than a 1-3, 2-4 since you won't have pulse collision at the first Y joints? Of course, I agree the tri-Y is better if you were comparing to the cheaper untuned-length 4-2-1 headers.
do u recommend 4-2-1 for b16 /1.6LQuote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
I have a set on my B20VTEC, good for making power :thumbsup: but not so good ground clearance within 3 weeks I have already scraped the bottom two primaries :thumbdwn:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrwillz
Toda headers are 4-2-1, so yes i would recommend them.
tri-y headers are also suitable for b20/vtec. Witht the 2L "big tube" tri -y design are recommended.
The tri-y design is the same as the buddyclub headers half its cost. Put a BC one next to a tri-y hytech replica and you can't tell the difference besides the BC tag. Tri-y headers can be had for $550-$600.
wow thats cheap, where from?
I wouldn't mind a bit of help on this topic too. At the moment, I'm trying to decide what header i want for my 2.0 ltr build. From what I've heard, Toda is widely regarded as one of the "best", if not THE best, off the shelf header for the b-series, but I'm wondering how well it performs on 2.0ltr builds?
I've also been checking out some of the other header's on the market, and ground clearence seems to vary quite a bit - I found these photo's on Honda-Tech:
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture048.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture053.jpg
http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/h...Picture054.jpg
From the right - Hytech replica, SMSP, RMF Narrow and TODA.
Toda seems to be pretty decent on ground clearence whereas the Tri-Y sits much lower. I'd be interested to know if anyone in Australia has a similar design to the hytech or smsp header, the only one i've really come across that is similar is the Buddyclub header.
Im using Hytech production header on my B20VTEC same one shown in that pic and there is also the "High-end" header which is a replica of the SMSP design also shown in that pic
Depending on budget i guess? Big tube tri-y $750-800, toda $1200-$1300, DTR/SSR $1400-$1500, SMSP $1100-1300.
List goes on and on...............
http://www.jgenginedynamics.com/Imag...ader%20(2).jpg
Or this for around $660
smsp is actually little bit more expensive than dtr/ssr, about 100bux more...both are worth a try if you really want to see what the craze is all about...
Got a link?Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
awesome comparision.. all very different
what would make it more awesome would be some dyno figures
Can anybody shed any light on the whether there are advantages/disadvantages on merging 1-3 and 2-4 primaries vs merging 1-2 and 3-4? I.e. SMSP vs Hytech replica in the pic?
Quote:
Originally Posted by joewalsh86
:thumbsup: the whole pt of the thread. Dyno graphs would also be great
i'll be installing the Hytech replica one in the next month, then doing back to back dyno with JDM 4-1's
fatboyz - can you weld?
Can weld, but not good at it. Just run both open headers back 2 back.Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
NCD - the 4-1's have the cat welded on :(
OPen headers test FTW!
WOW! They All look Great,especially the TODA Header! No wonder I keep hearing that name.
btw I'd LOVE to see a d-series thread like this ;)
hytech replica headers
i picked mine up for 600, but i think its abit cheaper now.. pm me if u want more information
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2.../complete3.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...omplete2-1.jpg
http://i82.photobucket.com/albums/j2...co/Flange1.jpg
Have you got the original flange from the 4-1's?Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkerbell
If so, I have an adjustable test pipe you can use to swap between the 2.
If not, find one & get it attached...
Then the swap is easy.
Quote:
Originally Posted by joewalsh86
Theoretically there should be no difference as the exhaust pulses in both cases are still 90deg apart. 1-3 & 2-4 or 1-2 & 3-4
The Hytech seem to work better IMO as they have double stepped primaries.
The 1-2 + 3-4 headers I’ve seen only seem to have single stepped primaries.
IMO the Hytech header looks better too…
For those who are interested, the TODA headers are a conventional interference header design with exhaust pulses 180deg of crankshaft rotation apart. 1-4 2-3
There is no stepped primary as flow reversion is not an issue.
The stepped primaries found in most of the unconventional interference header is to stop just this, due to both ports exhausting at the same time,
Also a reason for the additional length in the primaries.
On paper, the unconventional interference header behaves more as an inertia tuned header & the conventional interference as a shockwave tuned header.
Both arrive at similar ends in power & torque through the rev range.
That said, I agree dyno figures on the same car on the same day will tell the truth.
If someone wants to donate a car & the appropriate headers can be collected, I'm happy to offer the dyno for a header comparison.
Maybe do it on a Sunday so all the headers can be tested back to back on the same day.
Could be the OZHonda header test...
We'd just need a car that was 1/2 decent, with a good cat back & an owner willing to have it used as a mule.
Use the adjustable test pipe to get the fitment to the cat back right & just run them all without a cat.
In any case, I think this would settle the debate... (For the capacity of the test car)
Maybe doing 2 or 3 cars of different capacity would be the go.
Though I have confidence in our own product, in the interest of keeping the test on a level playing field, I’d say having a few adjudicator types present (Benjamin – Fatboys39 – Benson etc) would have everyone assured the test was above board with no fudged figures.
Maybe break out the BBQ too eh?
Let me know what you think...
i have the 4-2-1 hytech replica in my car atm,
upgraded from the xforce 4-1 header
i must say for daily driving, its a mucher better piece then the 4-1.
up top and flatstick, gains are still to be had but as much as part throttle and down low.
response and has also improved dramatically especially down low along with the torque gains.
all in all i think it was a VERY good upgrade over the 4-1.
had the xforce 4-1 and the jdm ITR 4-1 installed on my car, didnt notice any diffrence between them. but boy do these extractors make driving a torquless POS a dream. aircon on with full load, i still feel theres enough torque for daily commuting unlike before with the 4-1, the car would struggle and id have to rev its **** off to get anywhere.
with the xforce header i made 104atws, everything else is bogstock,
will be going on the same dyno again tomoro, and hopefully have dyno charts up.
Im down for this test. It'll volunteer a b16 1.6L, has 4-1 megan headers on there now.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
i think tie it in with a TODA dyno day. And have this "header test" as a side test for people to spectate :thumbsup:
2nd that :thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
Thanks Adrian (Toda Aus).
Ben u gonna organise a dyno day?
i've got a set of JDM4-1 which can be used in the testing
I'm curious as to which are better headers.
Let me know if you guys are gonna do a test
fantastic news!!Quote:
Originally Posted by taman
i look forwards to fitting mine :cool:
this looks like a great test.
c'mon guys,donate your cars!!
I will pm adrian now and get something going.Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
Keep alook out in the Lounge/upcoming events
only need 1 car to be consistant, then just the headers.
So you still have that engine,did you not get a 1.8lt to replace it,maybe you should use your one of your B20Vtec builds for the dyno test.Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
ALLMTR996
So what classes will there be? Im assuming testing will be done for the b series motors.
i noe i read this on a us site, but it states that for a dc2r engine, the rad and a/c parts need to be modified to make this fit.
does this apply for aussie delievered dc2r's or its a direct bolt on, retaining a/c and without the need for mods?
cheers
Direct bolt on id imagine.
i know that the buddyclub one just clears the ac by 3mms or something..
no some of the Tri-y ones require a/c to be removed, i don't think these are the same ones that you are talking about
TODA QUOTE :If someone wants to donate a car & the appropriate headers can be collected, I'm happy to offer the dyno for a header comparison.
I can donate my car B18C7 I have two sets of headers that can be used
Mugen 4-2-1
Tri- Y Replica headers
And i'm guessing if anyone else wants to donate some headers we can give them a whirl.
you've got a dyno? i thought we were gonna do it at TODA's dyno.
Let's just wait for Ben to get back to us.
I was trying to quote Toda but it didn't work out too well
Mugen vs Toda vs Hytech replica vs JDM 4-1 would be a very interesting comparison. B18cR engine would make a good test platform as well.
Agreed, this would be a great test, but I for one would like to see a b20vtec used.
I have seen a few dynos of the TODA header on b18c7's and as we all know it usually outperforms the field, but i would like to see it on a fairly mild 2.0litre build (like yours ZeForce). More of us are moving to b20vtecs these days and i would like to see how the TODA keeps up with the "latest craze" Tri Y design.
With crazy set-ups the toda doesn't really compare anymore. It seems to be at it's limits on mild mods B18C7's.
For any crazy set-ups the tri-y is the best choice
Important factors...
Replica Tri-y and Branded Tri-Y.
There will be differences...
cars need to be untuned for the testing... unless someone is willing to quikc a quick tune b/w runs
lol I hope you reallise a lot of those "Tri Y" headers are manufactured by the same people and then "branded" by companys like buddyclub, mFactory, etc who add their own profit on top.....Quote:
Originally Posted by BlitZ
the point of such a test is to prove they are indeed one and the same (performance wise)
Anyway i have spoken to Adrian and we do indeed need a stock untuned engine to do the real comparison.
I have put my hand up if all else fails ~ others ask in here.
There will be a dyno day organised and bbq etc , after interest is gained
How do you define "performance wise" ?Quote:
Originally Posted by bennjamin
toda headers 1200-1300 vs tri-y headers $600-$800.
Time to make some bets hahahaha
Sounds good I got my money on Tri-Y > Toda > Mugen > JDM 4-1Quote:
Originally Posted by fatboyz39
is that tuned or untuned, lol
:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeForce
On a b18c7 motor yes i will agree to that ;):thumbsup:.
The test will be on a STOCK motor with STOCK ecu to suit.
That much is official sofar.
Suggestions guys of the actual header/s for a base dyno and others to test against ?
And anyone here got a bone stock DC2R ?
Your EG has a stock b18c7 motor correct? Just use that if thats the case.
yup. Adrian needs to do something of a quick flange to allow these headers easy swap.
Refer to this thread for th event
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...52#post1536152
Well mine is pretty much stock dc2r, just the usual mods, no internals, stock ecu
i'll volunteer for B16a2 if needed... otherwise just there for dyno day....
Catback is 2.5mandrel all the way back, metal cat, but 2.25 ITR muffler (all dodgy flanges will be fixed by then)
***EDIT***
actually volunteering for open header test only if required... aftermarket cat is piped weird and won't fit said adjustable test pipe...
What ever headers we test,
Do any of them only fit on cars with no A/C?
If so, we need a test car with no A/C so we can do this test.
Evan, re tuning.
C'mon. Tuning each one to it's peak, get a result than move on to the next.
That would make for a very long day.
A near stock car with a good intake header & good jap cat back exhaust would be fine as a base.
Tuned or not doesn't matter so much as being able to change them with a degree of speed.
If a B20 or 2.0L B18C is used... Great...
This would give the most conclusive test results, otherwise in my view is not worth the test.Quote:
Originally Posted by TODA AU
But thats just me being anal.
If time is an issue, why dont our *good friends* at ozhonda fork out some cash to facilitate the time taken to do the test properly?
I agree.....oh wells...Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
it could take forever to tune each car for each ECU for max power.
Then we would need an ECU again for each car!
I think to be consistent use 1 car stock and try the 3-4 different headers.
Unless we get more cars.
I'll only be coming over to look and donate the header for the tune
Agreed...Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
But, I can't waste a week doing this... I've gotta eat you know...
These products (headers) are bought by people, I would say over 80% IMO who would never get an ecu upgrade. So having said that, the difference without a tune would be more beneficial to the average joe with a B18 than an all out tune.Quote:
Originally Posted by ProECU
I would say that if a header makes more power than another without a tune; it's likely that it will make even more power tuned...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew
not always the case. Had a stock header that made more power than an after market one, but when tuned the after market one made more power over all. Each header is designed for a specific purpose, that's the reason why there is so much debate on which car/motor to run.
anyone has pics to show hw much lower does a tri-y header hangs?
lower than what?
mine (hytech replica) will actually improve ground clearance over the JDM 4-1 header...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...asLiu/EGG1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...iu/yonas14.jpg
Buddyclub header on B16A engine ( it hangs pretty low)