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hi all just wondering if anyone has heard of the four wheel steer sytem from preludes being retrofitted into any other models specificly an eg hatch as its an idea ive been toying with. also what are ppls oppinions on how it would make the car handle (better/worse?).
I'm it would be possible but I am not sure of the cost or practicality.
The EG Hatch already has such a short wheelbase compared to the Prelude.
If anything, I'd rather try and retrofit the civic with a 4WD system, much like what Neil Bates did with the Corolla
true true, but what would i get the awd system out of ??? i cant think of any hondas that are awd ?? i have heard of a crx that it was done to, but i have no idea of details as to what gear they used to do it ??
What's the purpose of doing this? To aid handling? There are much better alternatives out there. Fitting 4WS or 4WD is the worst option to take.
The generation or two before the eg had a sedan that was 4WD. But again it has a longer wheel base
most hondas in japan would've come with AWD option - due to the heavy snow periods. Perhaps source a car there to bring back and take parts off it. Not worth the money imo.
my ex's nissan march /micra and her families Tarago came in AWD lol.
the old old honda civic wagon, with the high roof, came in a 4wd variant, i remember reading an article about one they were working on in Sport Compact Car
cr-v driveline maby??? 4wd civic hatch would be dam cool!
Pass on the 4ws system, its gunna cost alot, big potential it'll completly screw ur handling, and if it does work, your not really looking at much of a handling improvement anyway.
Corect me if im wrong, but im pretty sure ive heard in the past that most people delete the 4ws when trying to improve a cars performance, not 100% sure tho.
well people disable HICAS in nissans (thats their version of awd)
4ws is more to aid in low speed cornering.
its not a performance thing.
do not think about putting it on a civic
eg sedans in japan come in awd for the snow
your idea would be a waste of time
hit a gutter there goes your alingment , pay more for your wheel alingments
and 4ws module cost 800-1800 bucks each to replace
hicas was the 4ws system, attesa ets was the awd system if i remember correctly.Quote:
Originally Posted by trism
if you like understeering + stability at speeds above 35km/h, then by all means fit a 4ws system, otherwise steer clear. in 4ws, rear wheels only go in opposite direction to front at less than 35km/h. if you're going any faster, rear wheels go in same direction as front (if they went in opposite direction, you would exceed your car's stability limit and roll).
Its also dependent on how much you steer, at above the speed threshold, steer beyond a certain angle and the rear wheel go back to steering in the opposite direction. its quite an intelligent system really.Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
im pretty sure it doesnt return to the opposite direction, as it causes too much instability if it does it at high speeds, and will also be unpredictable in handling as it would suddenly go from stable understeer to an unstable oversteer. most mechanical 4ws systems will just stick to the basic functions. maybe in the electronic 4ws systems it might do that, but i am yet to see one that does.Quote:
Originally Posted by e240
4ws systems should only really be useful on highway racing. aside from that, you're just adding unnecessary weight.
It does, but only if you steer past a certain angle - you'd never hit this angle on highway driving.
I've spent some time screwing around with an Accord and Prelude, both had 4WS
http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-four-wheel-steering.htm
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Posted by: anon3436
The concept of four wheel steering is hardly 'relatively new' as four wheel drive enthusiasts and monster trucks have been using 4WS systems for decades. Admittedly, those systems were custom, typically hydraulically controlled, and separately controlled from the front wheels.
The first production 4WS for the average American automotive consumer was offered 20 years ago on the 1988 Honda Prelude. This system was entirely self contained, automatic, and mechanical; no electronics, no speed sensors, no computers, no hydraulics; just two racks and a rod between them.
A simple tube runs from a secondary pinion on the front steering rack, transferring 1:1 steering wheel motion to the rear rack. That rear rack eccentrically transferred that rotational motion to a lateral motion.
During the first ~180 degrees (from center) of steering wheel rotation, the rear wheels are gradually steered in the same direction about 3 degrees, creating a slight under steer situation, improving straight line stability.
During the second ~180 degrees of steering wheel rotation, the rear wheels are gradually straightened back out.
From ~360 to full lock (~450), the rear wheels are gradually steered in the opposite direction about 5 degrees, creating a significant overseer situation, improving parking lot maneuverability.
That same year Mazda introduced an electronic 4WS setup on the 626 and moved it to the MX-6 in 1989. It was killed in 1990
Nissan followed suit with a hydro-electric system on the 300ZX (and other models not bound for the US), and Mistubishi developed an electric system for the 3000GT/Dodge Stealth.
Honda moved to an electric system with the fourth generation Prelude in 1992, and discontinued the concept altogether in 1994, opting to develop the "Super Handling" system in the fifth generation Prelude that has now found a home in the Acura RDX.
The 1988-1991 Prelude stands alone as the only automatic stand alone all mechanical four wheel steer system. Everything else is subject to computers and hydraulic pumps, neither of which are known for their bulletproof nature.
4WS - The accord / prelude used a multi-link rear suspension, sort of like a front suspension with even more
control arms.
Not gonna be a transplant into a EG/EK by any means.
EG/EK's use massive trailing arms, which will toe in under braking for a passive suspension effect, but beyond that will need to be completely re-engineered and fabricated.
Search for Weissach suspension on Google and it'll explain how the Civic's passive rear suspenion works.
Understand however, that the change is minute and only under heavy braking.
An older vehicle with worn bushes will probably deflect more than what Honda originally desined into the passive steering effect on EG's and EK's.
4WD - quite easy, if you can get the parts.
Honda made EK5s and EK8s which are Factory 4wd Civics.
Honda also have the Orthia Wagon (station wagon version of an EK) which is a B20 4Wd.
New Zealand got all these goodies, however the 4WD versions never sold more than a few hundred and parts are thus rare.
I got some part numbers for the EK 4WD trailing arms somewhere and have confirmed availability from Honda Australia, for a lark.
Because these parts don't appear on any local models there aren't any drawings available to confirm the details.
Unless you've got a spare $1000 for some new trailing arms, it ain't gonna happen.
The Honda Wagon and CRV TA's have different geometry, slight longer, and taller - rememeber they have raised suspension.
Nick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 90LAN
shit man really? never ever knew that!
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4wd civic burnout
I wonder if the stuff is strait transferable to non 4wd civic... or if the floor pan and shit is different
yeah my mistake sorry, i meant aws :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SeverAMV
saw a 4wd turbo ef civic on youtube before...
They also came in the UK/Europe (to my knowledge)Quote:
Originally Posted by Sexc86
IMO it would probably a bolt on bolt off situation :)
yeah i believe that was using either the AWD wagonvan parts or if it was CRV parts (most likely wagonvan as i recall watching the build thread)Quote:
Originally Posted by d15z1SUX
yeh i think it was from the wagon as the wagon was the same generation as the ef i think.
Yeah the Wagonvans came in AH/AT and ED/EF
Must say though the systems are not all too strong and if something breaks (these days) your in a spot of trouble
Still worth it though :p