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Thinking of doing an LS VTEC conversion on my 93' LS..Just wanting to know a few things:
1. Whats the cheapest you can do it for?
2. How reliable is it?
3. How easy can you **** your engine whilst driving (i.e. racing someone etc.)
4. Is it wearth it, will i have alot of improvement, would it kick vtir's etc.
5. how long would it take if i had all parts and 2 guys who know alot about engines?
6. Is it a straight bolt on?
7. And anything else you guys would want to tell me.
Cheers guys, scott
in a few words not worth it. Costs about the same as a b18c conversion if done properly
With the right combo it can be a good motor.Quote:
Originally Posted by IZY-10
B18A displacement is bigger then a B18C. Yes it most likely cost about the same as a B18C but you will get more power from a B18A then a B18C thats from using the same internal parts. I was running a B18A + P72 head and making 116.3kw on the dyno. IMO LS/Vtec are a good motor to play around with.
1. Whats the cheapest you can do it for? Theres no cheap way around it
2. How reliable is it? depends on the build
3. How easy can you **** your engine whilst driving (i.e. racing someone etc.) That comes down to the build
4. Is it wearth it, will i have alot of improvement, would it kick vtir's etc? it be a slight improvement over a B18C with same internals. Also comes down to Tuning and what other parts you use
5. how long would it take if i had all parts and 2 guys who know alot about engines? should take a couple of days if you know what your doing
6. Is it a straight bolt on? Head and block is a straight bolt on.. Just fidly with all the other things that is required to be done ie oil line
7. And anything else you guys would want to tell me? More torque
i'll be doing the ls b16/b18 soon when my tax money comes back =) i'll make a thread to teach the noobs about it later and rough cost of the whole build. ta da.
How reliable is it? depends on the buildQuote:
Originally Posted by Tu88y
Yeah, but it would suck to keep blowing headgaskets though :p
yeh well i dont think the b18a is that reliable i have broken everything accesories wise and also done a conrod bearing meaning i have another b18a and still have problems i think you would have to totally build the engine to make it reliable
Here you go mate...
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto.php
There is some really good other info as well :thumbsup:
You're doing something wrong then. In terms of strength of parts, all the B-series are virtually identical. If you did a rod bearing, FIND OUT WHY!! Accessories != Engine.Quote:
Originally Posted by prego
If you go and slap a VTEC head on an LS block, you get the same low down torque as a B18C (i.e. none). The LS makes low down torque from the HEAD (small intake ports).
All an LSVTEC has over a B18C is 38cc i.e. 2% more torque all else equal. Takes lots of work to reliably rev the LS bottom to 8000.
Head requires you to block the oil port on the deck. You also need new dowel pins, and a B-series vtec head studs/bolts, and a new headgasket obviously.
It's an easy job, i've done it and there are no tricks. You just have to do it right (which I did but had block problems from the start) which leads me to...
It's not worth it in Australia, parts aren't cheap and abundant enough over here.
You can get a B16A half cut for jack all these days, buy one.
yeh i was thinkg about this abotu a week ago.
and to be honest i didnt think it was worth it compared to turbo.
as string said, this is not the USA, parts here are at least double the cost and so is labour. we dont have the after market support that they do to make things like this bang for buck.
LSVTEC would be pretty easy, but to get the most out of it you need to strengthen the bottom end and change pistons to raise the compression.
to do that you need to open up the motor and we know that costs a lot of money, so its not really worth it unless you are rebuilding or are loaded haha.
but the results if you do it right can be awesome as some people have said, you will definatleyt be beating B18c2's.
another thing you need to worry about is the gearbox. LS has a crappy long gearbox so to get the most out of an lsvtec you would want a short ratio gearbox ie b16 or itr or gsr. this cost an extra 1k ontop lol.
You won't be beating B18C's until you've basically created a B18C2. Don't bother basically.
A B20VTEC might be worth it as it's a cheap way of getting a high revving 2 litre. But even they are a rip-off.
Also you would need a Golden Eagle Vtec conversion kit.
http://shopping.lightningmotorsports...?productid=380
Hmm I'm quite sure a lsvtec in a DA chassis would be faster than a dc2 vtir.Quote:
Originally Posted by string
Even my B18a on a closed private strip is pretty even with a dc2 vtir.
But there are alot of variables of course.
well i already no now that i beat my mates vtir 99 model up hill which im pritt proud of:) (and we are roughy the same driving skills)...but as for this goes im pritty sure (well i no) that putting a turbo on my engine thats done over 225XXX kms is not wearth it! and i guess it may not be wearth doing LSVTEC so i guess ill just find a vtec engine like a b18c or so and dump that in....CHEERS GUYS FOR ALL YOUR HELP :)
Yeah your right, but thats just the weight advantage of the DA9. I think a B18C might cost a bit more, but it's an excellent base for some really good n/a power + reliable as hell in stock form.Quote:
Originally Posted by EKVTIR-T
mate b18c is like around 4000 grand..+labour to install it +1000 grand =5000 grand... you have your b18a bottom end rite?
b16a complete head = look around good enuf 400-600
vtec ecu = 100-200
golden eagle vtec conversion kit = 250 shipped from us via ebay
arp head bolts = 100-200
forged pistons = 400
intake manifold = oem (200) vti-r, type R vs aftermarket edlebrock,etc (500)
labour = 1 grand -
all up around 2500-3000 grand installed and youll be faster than vti-rs
and if u got the cash add another 700 for a CRV b20b bottom end and youllbe
giving typeRs a good go...
1/4 of the price of a B18C is the gearbox, so add another $750 - $1000 for you LSVTEC and you end up with a saving of maybe $1000 over the B18C. I'd say that's worth it to save you weeks off the road, and end up with a reliable OEM engine.
lols...
since you have a da9 with the b18a. all you would need is just the
-head
-golden eagle kit available at jdmyard for $300
-dizzy
-if your obd0(89-91) then you need the OBD1 ECU
-obd0 to obd1 conversion harness
-labour.
I put a B16A in mine, goes great while still giving fuel economy, and seeing as someone has a B16A halfcut for sale at $2000 on this forum, theres most stuff you will need. Cheers, Chris
Then you need to buy a new B18A when you decide to rev past 7500 one day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samm928
What's the point in spending money on a motor if you're not going to do it right.
Samm928 has way over simplified it.Not much point if you only do what you suggest.
Bottom end still stock and still using LS g'box.Useless..
exactly why lsvtec is not really worth it unless you raise the compression (ie, b16 pistons, itr, ctr, aftermarket) + upgrade rod bolts at least and change the gearbox as well. then you will get the full potential out of lsvtec and it will/can be a weapon.
but jsut changing those things add up to over 2k easily
thescotty - racing your friends vtir up a hill is not legal!
Ensure that you stop talking about illegal actions in this thread or I'll lock it down!
right, well i didnt technically say i was 'racing' all i said was i beat him up hill...the road was a 2 lane 100km zone and we both put it down a gear to get up the hill and mine took off..dont see anything illegal about that...
also cheers for the help guys:)
^^^ how can a LS beat a vti-r... 125kw> 95kw...that must of been one dodgy Vti-r
nuh i dunnno..apparently one of my mates said LS's are better up hill, think it was to do with tourq or some shit..or maybe he changed down gear abit after me or something...
Broader power band and less weight. They should still lose but it's not as bad as the numbers sound. The VTi-R gearing is not so good.
LS arnt that slow, plus i rekn they bit lighter then the vtir's. thats probably y u beat ur mate up the hill
last couple of pages here outlines whats needed:
http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...t=25644&page=6
Parts List all sourceable from eBay (exc. Head which you can get here in FS)
- Golden Eagle VTEC kit
- Dowel pins (different size on each end so no tapping/drilling of head/block)
- vtec ecu+harness or use current ecu + solenoid actuator
- ARP/GE Rod Bolts
but um.. the CR is gonna be shit on the the stock B18a/b... you'd want at least the p30 pistons.
this totally isn't worth it unless you have B16a to begin with and your sourcing the block.. not the other way around.. just my opinion.
0.4mm head gasket will give you +~0.3CR and flat face valves will give you +~0.3-0.5CR
think about it, any performance gain you think you would have gotten from the 2nd lobe of vtec is lost through lack of static CR of only 9.6/9.8:1CR
Quote:
Originally Posted by Compression Chart from [url
sorta thinking i may just save up for a type r then...
no way a da9 will beat a dc2 up hill. I use to have a da9 there is no comparison.
Thescotty- I was in your position 6 months ago. I ended up working hard at the same time as studying full time (not recommended) and saved hard and got a dc2r. Best decision i have made
yeh cheers man, i do agree im studying fulltime and trying to earn a living whilst save (worst thing someone could do) but you gotta do it, in the end ill probz end up buying something even better...but i want it now! :)
i feel your pain with uni full time and never earning enough money!!!
its shit house
also for ecu and loom you can use the same loom if you stay with OBD0. Although you have to add a few lines for the vtec. I believe you have to use a different ecu.
Vtec solenoid, oil pressure switch, knock sensor and 2nd o2 sensor from memory (from converting my old LS)
EDIT: actually is your using your LS block then you wont have a knock sensor or 2nd o2 sensor
you're better off with an aftermarket ecu and tune which adds to the price yet again
*cough* turbo *cough*
i went through the same thing a few months ago save up for a b18c or ls/vtec conversion and its not cheap even for a head the cheapest vtir head i could find was still 800 bucks and it hadnt been recon.. then u have to weld up oil gallerys, then fuk around with engine management, wiring, manifolds, injectors, head gaskets etc. for what? a few hp....
as for the b18c upgrade for just a vtir dc2 (aus spec) frnt cut was 2700 thats still just as much.. i admit alot easier to put in then a ls vtec conversion plus the fact u get the different gearbox. but how do u know whats up with the engine and gearbox.. if its at a wreakers its usually for a reason...
however the gearbox upgrade is better, its easier and cheaper to find clutches, u get a stronger driveshafts, and in some cases a LSD (which i can not find a good lsd for a da9 box.... pm me if u can help)
check the us guys and see what there doing and if u see there turbo setups u will see thereve got them down pat.. the b18a is better for the turbo due to the lower compression, no vtec, head design etc.
kms done neccessarly mean the engines fuked it just means its had alot of kms and stuff needs doing... i did the timing belt on my car the other day and the cams r still like new, i did a compression test on my da9 and its still within factory specs and mines done 270,XXXkms
u guys keep forgeting ur playing with HONDAS not daewoos or hyundais.....
in summary what im saying is look at the pros and cons...
vtec conversion:
a few hp more then stock
VTEC
aftermarket engine management
room to grow with a N/A setup
(i dnt know what else)
Cons:
price
parts
avalibility
having a "BASTARD" engine (because they r different even though there similar
LS g/box
cable clutch on ur ls g/box
Time for ****ing around
properbility of ****ing it up
engine management (aftermarket)
if not obd1 then upgrade that to....
(help me if u find more)
b18c upgrade:
easy
factory engine management
easy conversion
cheaper then a ls vtec.
less downtime
all the parts r there (in theroey)
better g/box
maybe LSD
reliablity (providing its not fuked to begin with)
cons:
price for the hp gains
unknown origins of the donor car. (usually)
i cant really think of anything else.
Turbo b18a
turbo
BOV
significant increase of hp
alot of room to grow
the engines r strong so they can handle it...
unique
its effective
cons:
price
parts required
ALOT of research (trust me)
alot of preparation
LS g/box
usually no LSD
engine management ( and sensors..)
(please help me if im wrong)
i see your point, but i also see maybe turbos a good way....BUT ive researched with a few mates and alot of people have done turbo and i wouldnt mind! but also a few mechanic mates have said that as my b18a engine (the stock 93 LS engine) has 230,000PLUS kms on it and if i were to dump a turbo on it itd probz **** the engine as its not made for it and the engines old....so in turn id have to reconditon the engine (costing even more money!) etc. has anyone dumped a turbo straight on to a LS engine non recon with high kilometres, if so, what happened?
cheers
im about to.... im nearly rdy now
im just waiting on a few parts and a new intercooler.....
i dont think u will have a problem because if u think about it if its got good compression the engine looks fine there shouldnt be a problem. from what i see the only problems u will have is rings... if ur rings r leaking (low compression) then it should prob b recon...
ITS ALL IN THE TUNE
so how much all up am i looken for getten my car in turbo condition...like turbo kit and everything else like wat other parts will i need, new breaks or engine mounts or anything?
ecu etc...