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Hey guys, i have a DC5R
been doing a little bit of research and have narrowed my suspension choice to either the Tein Super Street or the Tein Flex.
I just want to know the difference between these two coilovers and which one is recommended or is rated better?
tein flex is better than tein super street....and flex are more expensive for this reason.
flex has more damper adjustment increments,and you can adjust your height and spring rates seperately,as in changing one doesnt affect the other,whereas it does with the super streets
Tein SS are too soft. I'm coming from a koni/neuspeed background, and i realise that drive on SS, they are soft and shite. and generally speaking are pretty hopeless imo.
however it is good for daily driving and comfort.
Both Flex and SS have 16 levels of adjustment. You cannot adjust spring rates. If you want to alter the spring rate, you need to change the springs.Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_mechanic
The difference is that Flex comes with an adjustable lower mount, teflon coated threads, higher spring rates and the upper pillowball mount.
Tein SSs have the upper pillowball mount aswel, well atleast mine did and i got them on tuesdayQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Certain models of SS might come with the upper mount. But for the majority of models, it is an optional extra which you have to pay for. Flex comes with the upper mount as standard.Quote:
Originally Posted by SXC-84K
I've got Tein SS and there hard as **** on the hardest damper setting... :pQuote:
Originally Posted by SiReal
oh ok.i got pwned lolQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
im running DC2R flex's in my eg and they have 29 adjustment levels,overkill i know,but there are 29 increments.
i thought that the spring rate was being adjusted,im probably wrong,il explain my reasoning :
-by loosening the lower collar you can twist the whole lower body and adjust the height.
-by loosening the 2 higher perched collars (the locking collar and the collar that the spring sits on) you can use your c spanner to move the top collar up or down,shortening or lengthening the spring,would this be changing the spring rate,or is it adjusting something else.
any input is appreciated
Do you think by squeezing the spring tighter with the collars the spring rate increases?NoQuote:
Originally Posted by teh_mechanic
You are just preloading the spring ;)
You are meant to use only the first 15-16 clicks starting from full clockwise (stiffest). If you use 16-29 clicks, you risk damaging the damper. Says so in the installation manual.Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_mechanic
Try measuring the length of the spring now, then adjust the height of the spring perch up or down by 2cm. Once you are done, measure the length of the spring again. It should be the same length as original. :)
technically speaking, you CAN adjust the spring rates on the flex.
issue is that there's no easy way to work out what you've adjusted them to with out doing a compression test.
How do you adjust the rates? Just curious :) Technically speaking of course
steel coil springs generally all have rising rates.
the more you compress it, the more resistance it will provide.
turn the dails up towards the pillow mounts and the rates increase. how much by? i have no idea.
the rate of incease is not huge, but enough to make a difference.
ei aaron, the click thing, really ar? knn, never tell me when i put mine on... i crank up to full quite often...
hopefully you used full clockwise. :p
looking from the top, turn clockwise untill cannot turn any more is hardest, full counter is softest, but i use the full 26 clicks
maybe u started from the softest 15 side =]
Hmm, change it back to the proper setting. So if you have 26 clicks, don't use the first 10 clicks from full soft.Quote:
Originally Posted by overl0ad
remind me tomorrow please...
12:40am now. Change to 11 clicks from the left or 15 clicks from the right. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by overl0ad
thanks for the replies guys,still trying to get my head around these flex's.
sorry for hijacking thread,but:
i understand that raising the spring perch would raise the preload on the spring,what effect does this have?i know its not a great application of it but raising the collar on my rear springs stopped the rear scrubbing when 3 ppl where in the back,this is why i associated it with raising the spring rate??? im still a bit hazy on it....why do they even have the collar to adjust the spring,preload?what effect does raising and lowering this preload have?
and regarding the damper adjustment?i dont have a user manual....does it really say i shouldnt use the full range of adjustment,most of the time im driving round on full stiff 29 (all the way clockwise)....is this doing damage....can someone clarify the safe region please (is it - dont go higher than 16 from the left,meaning 16 is the safest stiffest setting???)
ok so for best handling it is:Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Rear:
wind it counter clockwise (left) fully and then 11 clicks clockwise (right)
Front:
wind it clock wise (right) fully and then 15 clicks anti clock wise (left)
did i get that right?
so basically its a little stiffer at the front than the rear
well for best handling you need to set it up for your car really,adjusting the stiffness front and rear to counter handling woes such as under and over steer.
from what ive gathered,ppl are saying the max stiff but still safe for your coilovers setting is 16 clicks clockwise,and that going past this can cause damage in the long term
just waiting for confirmation
so that means, turning the knob to the far left and 16 clicks to the right yeh? i also heard that for us fwds we need the front to be stiffer than the rear how many clicks is it for the rear then? around 12-14?Quote:
Originally Posted by teh_mechanic
No, my post was regarding the softest setting that he could use as per the instructions. When I am on track, I use full clockwise and then turn 4 clicks anti-clockwise. On the street, I use full clockwise and then turn 11 clicks anticlockwise.Quote:
Originally Posted by SXC-84K
I found that I had to run the fronts a bit stiffer than the rears also. But post installation of asr/22mm rsb, i found that I had to reconfigure my settings; so i'm with 'teh mechanic'. Different setups will run different configs. But generally fronts > rears.
i has a diagram out of a Tein catalog that says you can adjust preload...
i scan and upload later. still in office now...
Will be interesting. My SS and Flex installation manuals for the Euro doesn't have the word "preload" in it.
http://www.overl0ad.com/legacyfiles/Tein/Flex.pdf
the flex says the same: "full length etc etc..."
I see, it preloads it using the full length of the piston rod as in the pic in the bottom right. But does it give any benefit? When installed, the weight of the car compresses the spring anyway to a similar amount if it didn't have any preload.Quote:
Originally Posted by overl0ad
I TOLD YOU SO!!!!
na-na-na-na-naaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!
:P
Still, when you put weight on the spring, the spring compresses the same no matter what preload you have.
SLightly off topic.. but i read sumwhere if you want to minimize under steer you have higher spring rates at the rear then the front... so therefore stiffer at the rear compared to the front??
rising rate.
rising rate
Real life story:
When i put the tein SS on the highest (spring was most compressed), it was hella stiff compared to when it was not at the highest
dangrous... you max out the damper on the SS.
as in top out the damper.
I'm selling my Tein Monoflex for EK9. They are too bumpy even at the softest settings for me on the street. But the handling is like a go kart. I've opted to go back to TEIN SS since I had these since NEW for about 3000kms and sold them for the NEW Monoflex. Now... I've had the monoflex for 3000kms and have ordered brand new SS with upper mounts and EDFC. SS is really good for replacing your Stock Suspension. They are slightly stiffer than the Stock Type R except you can make them more stiffer ofcourse.
I recommend SS for the Street and Monoflex for the track. The Flex is just only 1kg less in spring rate with the monoflex except mono ofcourse is mono tube which is much better for the track.
Exactly the same situation as me. I tried monoflex =too stiff for daily..now Im using CUSCO ZERO 2 big thumb up:thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by jugbugz
I think MonoFlex is so cushy.
Tein SS don't have height travel adjustment which means when you lower Tein SS you're losing shock travel. I forgot the actual term to use here. This is the only reason I won't consider SS. Are MonoFlex THAT harsh? I can't imagine they are unbearable on lowest setting.Quote:
Originally Posted by jugbugz
Buddy Club Race Spec is harsh, but they have bad reviews on ht, so I think I'll staying away. Cusco Zero2 is always good and probably gonna be my best choice.
SS does have damper adjustment. Monoflex is comfier than my Flex. Depends on what they expect from coils.
what are the spring rates on SS anyway?
8kg/mm front, 4kg/mm rear for DC2R, JDM SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamB
My tein Flex's (on my 5th gen lude) are a great shock but imo are to soft and I spent a LONG TIME testing preload, damping, front n rear bias etc... I've tightened the rears preload up but I still have to much roll.. it dives hard into corners.... even with my sway bar on medium, comfort wise they are great but Im going up to a hevier spring.
n for peoples knowledge to rid understeer and create oversteer you tighten the rear up more than the front..
SS= supershit.
Go for flex.
i agree running tein monoflex on my euro bloody bumpy as but then sometimes it feels too soft.
would it be ideal to preload your springs?
and if so whats the most comfy setting slightly looser springs?
whats the difference between type flex n monoflex?
flex is softer spring rates and valved different to the mono.
all comes down to what you want. you want track then mono > flex > SS
you want street, it's the other way round.
it's like asking yourself "i have a ton of bricks to move, do i use a NSX or my ute?"
Set your preload based on the preload in the installation manual. It tells you to measure the height of the lower perch and set it to factory spec, and then after that you adjust height based on the lower mount.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crapdaz
Monoflex is sometimes softer than flex. That is the case for the Euro.Quote:
Originally Posted by overl0ad
Monoflex's advantage is the monotube damper and micro valving, which lets the damper work at low speed. With Flex at low speed, the car just crashes down and bounces around after you go over a narrow metal speed bump.
hmmm i found it a bit different. at lower speeds my flex's work the best when im going crazy speeds around corners it feels so loose even with my preload and damping up hard... want to experiment with a harder spring though anyone want my 5th gen Lude flex springs if I sell em? lol
Low speeds as in < 5km/h and going over a Bunnings metal speed bump.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchman
If your car feels loose around the corners (likes to slide), then soften the dampers!
low speeds as in under 80kph. damping was set to half way and dove realy hard. I need to brace the front end more before doing anything drastic, Im not sure if its just flex in the chassis but it feels like it lifts abit at speed. . . hard to explain but steering becomes much harder to keep the car stable during the corner. it is a fat lude tho which doesnt help.
Under 80, flex and monoflex's damper should be similar. Maybe you really do need stiffer springs. What are your alignment settings?Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitchman
that would be all good if my monoflex manual had any engrish in itQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Look in the manual. There should be a diagram of the damper and various height measurements and numbers. The numbers should be universal, doesn't matter if it is engrish, japlish or Swahili... you should be able to read the numbers.Quote:
Originally Posted by ek4-guy
Anyway, the EM1 kit might fit EK4, since I do see pics of an EK9 in the EM1 section. So try using this manual: http://www.tein.com/tech_info/inst/gfh98u.pdf
My mono flex are ek9 ones, I do see the numbers now but i just left them how they come from the factory as the springs where just captured snugly.
I did measure from the tops plate to the adjusting nut and they where the same. Then i measured from that spring capture nut to the height adjustment nut made them all the same installed them and the car sits dead flat
Did you check your monoflex that measurement A in the manual, the height from the lower spring perch to the lower mount is 159mm for the front and 205mm for the rear? Sometimes the assembly worker might be cross-eyed.... If you did, then your preload should be correct.Quote:
Originally Posted by ek4-guy
Yes, I understand that lowering the SS affects shock travel and the Monoflex doesnt. Well, for me, sometimes its fine, but most times it isnt. Its very crashy even though I have it on the softest level. It was a nightmare when I had the damper settings half way. I cant imagine full settings. :eek:Quote:
Originally Posted by shebangs
I've had SS before the mono and thought it was very good, The monos were just out of my expectations. I know theres heaps of opinions here but for those who like the Stock Type R suspension, then the SS is perfect as its more tighter and provides Type R comfort which is good for street use. I dont know about the SS on Prelude because its a heavier car and not braced up like Type Rs so its always going to be more sway.
flex + swaybars + rose jointed endlinks + rose jointed steering busings + lower arms bars + AWD = makes the car feel invincible around corners.
jajajajajajaaa!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by overl0ad
so I assume your talking about an EVO or STI? GTR?
i wish i had the m00lah for any of those...
i'll take donations tho. :)
nah, just a little subie NA. still quicker then Aaron round winton tho :P:P:P
Great thread - sounds like SS is the way to go for the street :)
Interesting tho - none of you guys mentioned changing/replacing new control arms, bushes, end links, ball joints etc etc did any of you guys change these parts before fitting coilovers?
Only because I've been recommended to do these changes first if you're really to see the 'full' benefits of fitting new coilovers... which might be why some of you guys are getting mixed results...?
SS is made in Taiwan, flex is made in japan, you can use the edfc with the flex, not with the SS. Flex is constructed better than SS
You are wrong there. EDFC can be used with the SS.Quote:
Originally Posted by MRK20CRX
Yep, SS are EDFC compatible... SS parts are made in Japan, 'assembled' in Taiwan. I would consider the monoflex but have to compromise on some things and SS probably suit my application best...
Anyone have experience on Tein basic coilovers - is the ride too 'OEM' so to speak?
Tein super racing :)
I'm not after Tein super racing. I'm trying to find out if anyone has had any experience with Tein basic coilovers and what the ride is like on them?
Super Streets are more then adequate for the streets and some track work. Regardless of what people say, SS's are not too bad for the track, but if you get a bit track serious, then monoflex's as a minimum..
I was using SS's for the better part of 3 years, and did quite well on the track with them. They are a bit on the bouncy side, but a lot better then OEM.
Do we need to buy anything extra to use edfc? i heard something like upper mount?Quote:
Originally Posted by Alvis
Thanks SpoonS - good feedback +1 rep 'cause I've heard some guys talk about SS not being hard enough etc etc, but it sounds like they are a good compromise for daily street use and occasionaly track day too :)Quote:
Originally Posted by SpoonS
Do you think it's worth going for the cheaper basic Tein coliover if I didn't want to spend too much?
I'm not 100% sure to tell you the truth... I just read from a few sources SS are EDFC compatible... i know you can order SS with or without the pillowmounts - not sure if it has to do with EDFC tho - I thought pillowmounts had to do with allowing camber adjustment on the front (i could be wrong)?Quote:
Originally Posted by TurBIce
on EG , EK , DC2 , EF , DAQuote:
Originally Posted by Alvis
The camber adjustment is not from your front top mounts. You need to run Camber kit even when you got pillow ball mounts or not
.. ah thanks for clearing up EG5 :)
so is there any real benefit for daily driving to get Teins with the front pillow mounts?
you need the upper mounts front and rear to use the EDFC.
if you dont have the upper mounts you would have enough clearance on top of the adjustment pin to mount the EDFC motor.
therefore you cant install, therefore you can use.
(personal experience, i only have 10mm between the front strut bar and the adjustment pin)
i dont think there is any benefit to having the front mounts besides durability...
although i read somewhere that having it gives you the possibility of lowering the car a few cm's more.. but im not too sure about it.
im using tein flex with ASR and dc2r rear swaybar and stock eg5 front swaybar..
what settings should i use lol