E10 Fuel

Hi Everyone,


i have been a reading alot on this forum but hardly make any comments.
But im due to take possession of a 2006 accord Euro luxury from a family member and have a few questions.

I have done some research and i have found that Euro can use E10 fuel
not sure if economy suffers or if power suffers as a result of using it.

But since the government will make compulsory 10% ethanol in petrol within a few years i thought there is not much we can do unless we buy a diesel.

anyways my question is Any performance benifit? economy? and maintenance issues?

hopefully someone here has tried and tested it.

cheers
Bru

I'm pretty sure someone here has used it, but from my experience with a different car (not Euro), performance and economy both suffer. But I haven't really calculate whether the degradation in economy (ignoring performance degradation) is gained through the cheaper price.

ethanol produces approx 30% less energy than regular petrol.
at, say, 145.9 cents per litre for normal unleaded, E10 will cost 143.4 (it is 2.5 cents cheaper.

Now, E10 will have 3% less energy than regular fuel (10% ethanol, with 30% less energy)

so, the discount as a percentage is (145.9-143.4)/145.9. Thats 1.7%

So, you get 3% less energy, yet you only get a 1.7% discount. Sound likes your 1.3% worse off.

Not to mention that the euro requires 95RON or above, and E10 is only 93 octane.

Please dont use it.

also it is compulsory in NSW already.

alot of people claim it 2-3 cents cheaper.
actually its not, bare in mind euro uses premium unleaded depending on the service station can be 5 - 10 cents more expensive than unlead petrol
the E10 being 2-3 cheaper makes it a substantial 7 - 10 saving per litre when compared to premium

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bruster

alot of people claim it 2-3 cents cheaper.
actually its not, bare in mind euro uses premium unleaded depending on the service station can be 5 - 10 cents more expensive than unlead petrol
the E10 being 2-3 cheaper makes it a substantial 7 - 10 saving per litre when compared to premium

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i work for mobil. its 2.5cents cheaper than regular unleaded petrol at mobil, that is a fact.

youre right - the euro does use premium unleaded. so E10 is too low an octane rating (93, when the euro needs 95 or above) - you shouldnt be using it in the first place.

using a petrol with a lower octane rating can actually give you less power. higher octane fuels burn more slowly and are thus ignited earlier in the combustion process. by using a lower octane fuel that burns more quickly, you risk reaching peak cylinder pressure before the piston is at top dead centre.

this is not good for your engine.


oh wow. 10cents a litre. on a 50litre tank thats $5. if you fill up once a week thats $250 a year. if you can afford a euro you can afford $250 a year.

Ethanol fuel discussion here

http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=71712

Someone will come in and say that high octane fuel does not burn slower, which I will agree with.. High octane is more resistant to self ignition. That's it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by aaronng

Someone will come in and say that high octane fuel does not burn slower, which I will agree with.. High octane is more resistant to self ignition. That's it.

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here are just two of the many people that would disagree with you

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDocs/Commerce/Gasoline_Octane_Facts_102902052227_OctaneFacts.pdf

http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

and irrespective, the bit about it yielding less power was more to do with the fact that i was recommending he use 95RON or above, as suggested by his owners manual.

what you said isnt relevant at all to the OP's question

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_will

i work for mobil. its 2.5cents cheaper than regular unleaded petrol at mobil, that is a fact.

youre right - the euro does use premium unleaded. so E10 is too low an octane rating (93, when the euro needs 95 or above) - you shouldnt be using it in the first place.

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Man before u start claiming this. U gotta realise more than one place exist.

United petrol sells E10. For 3c and guess what. its 95RON.


I used E10 for about 6 months in my EG. After some advice from a friend to try 'normal' petrol again. i noticed i could get and extra 40-50ks from a tank.

So it ended up not really being a saving at all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_will

here are just two of the many people that would disagree with you

http://www.state.mn.us/mn/externalDocs/Commerce/Gasoline_Octane_Facts_102902052227_OctaneFacts.pdf

http://theserviceadvisor.com/octane.htm

and irrespective, the bit about it yielding less power was more to do with the fact that i was recommending he use 95RON or above, as suggested by his owners manual.

what you said isnt relevant at all to the OP's question

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That first link has so many errors... .Knock occurs when cylinder pressures are high? OMG... that's silly. You can get knocking with a low compression engine as well with low cylinder pressure,.
Also, flame speed is not directly related to octane rating. Other factors affect flame speed more than octane rating.

From my textbooks at uni, octane rating measures just the resistance to autoignition.

Good read on octane rating - http://www.thor-racing.co.uk/Octane_Rating-149.asp

And no, I wasn't answering the OP's question. I was starting a discussion on the contents of your post.

E10 wears out the rubber components in your motor quicker, i wouldnt touch it

To me, E10 fuel are not cheap enough to justify using it....

E10 fuels at the independents seem to be 95RON here but name brands are lower.
Another vote for don't use it. IFS did have at 1 stage a 98RON E10 fuel. Not sure if it's still out there but I did find it useful in a previous car as it was only 3-4c/ltr more than 91ron normal fuel.

Yes Aaron Ng is correct octane rating refers to the fuels resistance to detonation

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mr_will

i work for mobil. its 2.5cents cheaper than regular unleaded petrol at mobil, that is a fact.

youre right - the euro does use premium unleaded. so E10 is too low an octane rating (93, when the euro needs 95 or above) - you shouldnt be using it in the first place.

using a petrol with a lower octane rating can actually give you less power. higher octane fuels burn more slowly and are thus ignited earlier in the combustion process. by using a lower octane fuel that burns more quickly, you risk reaching peak cylinder pressure before the piston is at top dead centre.

this is not good for your engine.


oh wow. 10cents a litre. on a 50litre tank thats $5. if you fill up once a week thats $250 a year. if you can afford a euro you can afford $250 a year.

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Well, im actually on the road 6 days a week so for me it would do a world of difference. i fill up almost 2 times a week.

$500 a year which i would rather have in my pocket.

but this is only one of many factors, the other is the reliability of E10.
and so far nobody has proven this, everyone follows what everyone else has heard or read but no proven fact it destroys your engine otherwise the manufacturer would not clearly label it.

this is what i wish to find out, but from the responses in this thread it seems very few if any have tried.

cheers
Bru

If you're looking at E10 to save some money forget it.For 2-3 cents/ltr.saving it isn't worth it.Plus E10 wont get as many kms./tank as normal 95.:thumbdwn:

the honda website says that their newer cars are E10 ready so i would think they wouldnt encourage the use of that if it damaged their engines?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by FFXSSJ

the honda website says that their newer cars are E10 ready so i would think they wouldnt encourage the use of that if it damaged their engines?

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E10 won't damage the new Hondas because in the US, E10 (or was it E15?) and E20 are commonly sold. So the newer Hondas are designed with proper seals to withstand a certain percentage of ethanol.

Aaronng is right, E10 at Ron95 is fine for Euro.
In terms of saving $, you have to look into the sort of drive you are doing most as well. From my experience, if you are doing city "start, stop" traffic jam drive, then the cheaper the fuel, better it is, because half of the time your car is burning fuel without moving lol. Whereas 95 sometimes even 98 is good for highway drive.