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Has anyone here installed their velocity stack infront of the radiator behind the front bumper? Planning on moving mine from behind the slotted fin and change the ex flex pipe with pvc bends etc. Looking for install or space constraint issues. Thanks in advance.
:idea:
we ll whats the point of the velocity stack in the 1st place anyway ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_stackQuote:
Originally Posted by felixd
I just thought that it would scoop more air, being nearer to the front of the car with a larger surface area of the stack being exposed to direct air...where it is at currently, behind the fin, the holes are smaller than the dia of the stack, which means that the true purpose of a larger dia scoop is not being used properly...apart from that, air is not being rammed in or scooped, but blown through the smallish fin slots in the middle of the stack.....which is basically redirected air, as the bumper surely disturbs this.
Am I making sense? These are just my personal novice opinions:o...and I am just questioning what I think is being taken for granted.
nope mines a VS on a short ram..
works fine!
i couldn't be stuffed so i fed a aluminium 100mm diameter pipe to my SRI in the engine bay.
from where mate?Quote:
Originally Posted by Crapdaz
LOL dodgy ghetto style i pierced a hole in the pipe to cable tie it, then cause it was impossible to stick my phat arms into just next to the radiator i couldn't cable tie it to anything.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnprocter
*note: i was too lazy to take bumper off*
i'll fix it up when i can be stuffed cause i have a fair bit of aluminium piping left
So fed it from next to the radiator > around the corner to the resonator and up to the hole.
Maybe these illustrative pics will help...even if I use aluminium, don't you think the is more chance of ram air as opposed to the negatives of the radiator heating up the pvc pipe..surely, this can be made heat resistance....also, the problem will only arise when you are slow moving??..If you are on the freeway, the air will be blowing the heat back towards the radiator anyway?
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...cityStack1.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...cityStack2.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...cityStack3.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...cityStack4.jpg
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...cityStack5.jpg
ahaha nice
wow wad a nice pics n illustration :) top top info
Here you go pics of my custom velocity stack:
http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/2694/dsc00332qg7.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9467/dsc00336sn8.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/2876/dsc00335kq1.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/952/dsc00338qz8.jpg
http://img212.imageshack.us/img212/5697/dsc00334la4.jpg
dam looks good, have u noticed any performance diff?
Ooooo! The car looks horribly naked with all its guts hanging out. Niiiiice stack though! On a practical note: Do you find that you get insects rammed up the pipe?
Been driving or a year now with that setup no problem believe or not, nothing gets in there.Quote:
Originally Posted by SPQR
Not night/day difference but you now it is there to get as much cold air as possible to the SRI but driving in cooler weather I can see a difference and air is limitless. I like this alternative custom ram air rather than the cold air induction where the intake sits underneath the bumper and gets dirty.Quote:
Originally Posted by johnprocter
agreed, i feel there is more grunt and more stability than running just plain SRI without cold feed.Quote:
Originally Posted by CGPTSX006
Can't take all the credit...Quote:
Originally Posted by felixd
Google Sketchup is free:wave:
Model is free on Google Sketchup Warehouse:wave:
I modelled the stack:zip:
My current setup pics
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c.../Sheet_005.jpg
http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/952/dsc00338qz8.jpg
the bumper area would already act as a velocity stack when you mount a flex pipe to it.
lol just reminds me of my j's racing intake haha, comes with velocity stack i guess.
http://jrphotodesign.net/euror/parts...e/IMG_0904.jpg
(not mine, taken form tsx forums its ccolts)
cept that its onli two peices, that one shown there and anotherone to block off air coming from other places.
after i installed it i noticed it was a bit more responsive?(installed it like 2 weeks later) haha mayb i was just trippin haha
i wouldnt run it naked all day everyday..
alot of shit will get caught inside dust bugs dirt etc .. and fvck the compression..
once in awhile maybe.. or mesh or pod it up for everyday use..
yeah cant be good ?
yeah dirt builds up on the pipe and ends up shooting it at your intake anyway.
you need a mesh or a sock over the velostack.
or clean your airfilter more often/frequent than usual.
first hand experience.
if i had a K&N SRI, would using the drycharger on the filter be a better idea than using a sock/mesh over the velostack??
ive got this type of set up on my ice box its great :)
The J's kit is what prompted me in this direction....specially the air scoop. I am trying to weigh up if scooped air is better than ram air, performance wiseQuote:
Originally Posted by enkay
Hadn't thought of that in an SRI setup.....I am planning to enclose my SRI, like J's...seen all possible mods there are....but I have found something new.Quote:
Originally Posted by MangChi
As I am in the architectural field, there is a new product being made. Its basically CNC high density polystyrene and polyethelane coating...Being used for ceiling cornices, slabs mouldings etc. Seen a sample yesteday, and it feels like rock even though it's polystyrene.
Makes the term 'icebox' more literal. Anyone thought of this or tried anything similiar. Will speak to the rep for a quote after I model this in 3D.....she only needs the 3d model for cnc cutting
umm im running at VS at the moment but with a pod over the top of it.. and havent tried running it naked yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by claymore
yes you're probably right about the piping staying CLEAN, but how do you know that the dust bugs and shit like that isnt going through your intake manifold and into your motor? i was under the impression that if shit goes through the intake system dust etc etc that it would mess up the compression of the motor and would do more harm than good? (im talking about without a filter/pod)
are you running with or without a pod? im confused from the above..
Seems to be that the concensus is worrying about dirt,flies and debris trap in the bumper let me tell you it is not like that I have been driven with the velocity stack for well for a year now and it is clean in there so there is nothing to worry about. If you are paranoid about it just put like a screen surrounding the opening but you will limits the amount of airflow to the stack though it is not like a cold air induction where the intake sit in the bumper now that has to be worry because you will trap more dirt and debris and chance of hydrolock.
Quote:
Originally Posted by claymore
ahh yeah you're running the same as mine then.. take it off at the strip.. and for everyday driving its covered by a pod.. but mines a SRI so yeah..
cool i understand now..
i wouldnt run it without a pod for day to day dirving anyways..
:thumbsup:
Putting the velocity stack behind the bumper defeats its purpose. For a velocity stack to work as designed, you need to place it in front of the bumper where air can hit the lip of the velocity stack without blocking by the bumper/fog light hole/divider in front of a/c fins.
Thanks aaronng...exactly what I hoped to hearQuote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Catch more air
Don't defeat the purpose of the velocity stack
Smooth pipe up to hole in fender
This is a 90 degree pvc plain pan collar(100mm dia)....I think it might be a bit deep, may have to opt for the 90 degree pvc rainwater downpipe shoe (80mm dia)
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...k/DSC00380.jpg
Had a local performance header and exhaust installed on Monday.. Cord registered 164.5kw ATFW.. .......The only mod is the Diy Sri ....wit the performance exhaust and header,, this dropped to 148.7kw ATFW....will post dyno Monday
wtf so you lost power by installing headers and exhaust?
was it the same dyno on the same SAE correction?Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
two different dynos can easily vary 20kw...
Same dyno....Installer is befudled.....said I must bring the car back so that he can redevelop his header and exhaust for my car spefically, as it's unique. Is ther any specific header or system he should be investigating 4 my Cord?? This will all be done to his own cost.....also, this was an inland dyno...Local Skunk2 guy is also very interested in supporting me..........Waiting for Mr A to respond
small N/a engines will loose power from a badly designed exhaust system...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
so let me get this straight, you had 164kw atw from a K24A3? wat did you have do to it?
cause thats extremely high figures for a K24...
Typical for "custom" headers and exhaust. The system you have might not be an equal length header, so you will lose power compared to stock.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
Something similar to what happened to the guy in this article: http://autospeed.com/cms/A_110591/article.html
You cannot compare numbers from his dyno with yours. Different dyno brand, different location, different dyno and different weather.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
lol yeah i know that... but 164kw for an intake!?? lol that dyno is crazy high! all i was gonna point out was, maybe the first dyno was completely out... (say 30kws) and the second one was closer to the mark... so he'd be going from 134kw to 148kw... if you get what im trying to say...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Yeah, it could be 164kW because the dyno reads highhighhigh. It might even be recalculated to a flywheel power figure! But I also believe that he has lost 16kW through the custom header and exhaust being non-tuned length. I tend not to compare any numbers unless it was between cars at a dyno day, which is also why I don't compare your 133kW figure to other Euro dyno results. Instead, I am waiting for your dyno figure after you get the head installed to compare to your 133kW baseline.Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
hehehe... well now ive got the exhaust on im going to get another two baseline dynos done.... then after the build get another two dynos on the original two... :thumbsup: one dynodynamics, and one mainline...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
damn man, you are one crazy man.
lol dyno for everything you do FTW!
I agree with Aarrong...
My dyno was Hyper Power Dynamometer www.hyperdyno.com
Temp on Run 1 = 3 deg celsius
Temp on Run 2 = 20 deg celsius
Fuess2 said there sould only be a 3.7kw difference..his email below
I think you can approximate this using the "ideal gas law PV=nRT)
A pretty good explaination is here:
http://www.shodor.org/UNChem/advanced/gas/
Cooler air will contain more oxygen than warmer air. The ideal gas law allows you to approximate the difference.
If you assume that the atmospheric pressure is very close to constant and the only thing that changed is the temperature, the quantity of oxygen present (relative to the first run) would be *approximately* equal to the proportion of the temperatures in kelvin.
So.....
3 C = 276 K
20C = 283K
283 / 276 = 102.53623188405797101449275362319
based on my very rough approximation, the difference should be
3.7713768115942028985507246376812kw for the run that peaked at 148.7
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...pe/WebDyno.jpg
Trippers! Save your money blowing cash on chasing 5-10kw power increases (or decreases as it often turns out with dodgy honda modifications you cheap skates) and purchase yourself some forced induction power. Supercharge or turbo, screw naturally aspirated headers with your high flow cats or cat back systems and buy a custom exhaust manifold and strap a turbo in place!
Or not! But your 10kw power increase aint going to change the fact you probably drive with your arm out the window and your knuckles draggin along the ground causing more drag than your power gains! hahahaha
Velocity power stacks hahahahaha hahahahahaha
you obviously know alot about your euro dont you...Quote:
Originally Posted by JetLee
maybe search on the forum a little before you start putting people down, turbo or supercharge on the euro is not as easy as 'strapping' it on... theres alot more to think about, mainly, do you still want your gauges to work?
im not gonna dive into it, theres already been ALOT discussed on here about that subject, all im going to say is, anyone can 'slap' on a turbo/super charger and make some power, but it takes alot of time/skill/trial and error to make n/a power, and alot more respect comes out of doing it that way!
besides, i know of all motor K24s making more power than supercharged ones, so before you go opening your mouth and trampling people who take pride in their honda, how about you think next time, and maybe take some of your own advice?
Quote:
Originally Posted by JetLee
sound like a tool,Quote:
Originally Posted by JetLee
dude you strap a turbo on your euro and we'll see what happens.
more easily said than done mate.
Just for the record, I love my Hondas, love the technology, the driveability, the modest power outputs, but lets not hide from the fact of what we drive here!
Everybody loves to make their cars unique in some way, and its great fun doing so and learning along the way! But to think your 4 door family engineered sedan is ever going to become a power housed race car... your dreaming unless your willing to invest big!
Yes there are power gains to be made, with the right combination of components used, but if your serious about this stuff, weight reduction should be your target. Your induction mods will more than likely modify your torque curve more than introduce more power.
Why do you think mugen stuff is so expensive? It isnt usually for the 5kw power gain, but the light weight materials used.
An induction kit isnt worth the time, effort or money! But hey, its just my opinion, and just like yours I can respect it.
Most people jump at spending $5-10K on a major modification, and investing the research in doing it right. But how much do you think you've spent once you've performed all your baby step modifications to gain 10kw? inductions, cat back system, headers, hi flow cat, piggy back systems or ecu upgrades, injectors, plugs... then you start getting more serious, but you've done it backwards and spent big cash for small gains! All I am saying, if your hitting the dyno every week for 2kw, maybe you should think big, save your cash and think what you really want outta your car! Plan your modifications further than your next pay cheque.
you said it yourself, its a 4 door family sports/luxury car... even with a bg turbo setup, it still weighs nearly 1.5tonne... i know my euro will never beat the new FPVs/HSVs/STIs/EVO... but theyre outright sports/race cars, thats what theyre designed for...
if you stay looking at the euros competition (Mazda 6, BMW 320, Litberty, Audi A4) then you can see the euro is pretty much at the top of the bunch stock... do a few mods to it, experiment, have fun and learn alot about your car, and all of a sudden youve stepped into the Mazda MPS, BMW 325, Liberty GT, WRX, Audi TT range and your showing them to shame...
my car is never going to be tracked, so i dont intend on doing weight reduction or anything like that, that would defeat the purpose of having 37kg of subs and amps in the back, plus sound deadening, plus 18s and a bodykit... but, when i go to a dyno day, and my N/A 2.4L puts down more power than a XR6 4L... or a WRX 2L turbo... or whatever, thats when i smile...
enough about this, we've hijacked the thread... sorry mods :(
Yeah, majorly hi-jacked! My bad! I respect your objectives. I guess if your goal is to get the power up on a dyno, thats great, you probably could get up to the 190fwkw seen in an MPS etc. but, personally, if I was investing so much money into power gains, I would want to see the results on the road and be passing these cars... But enough hahaha I got a giggle outta this little convo! Killed some time!
at the end of the day we know what we drive, doesnt mean i cant enjoy learning about it and trying to do my best to improve what ive got, i watch as people modify their cars and appreciate the amount of satisfaction and pleasure they get in doing so.
No shit NA engines are costly and difficult to milk kw's, you all think we do it because were stupid?
hehe MPS only has 145-155kw atw... ill easily get that :p
i do see results on the road, and i do pass those cars...
as jazz said... i choose to drive the euro...
1.The dyno was an inland dyno.Quote:
Originally Posted by JetLee
2.The car in stock form produces 140kw ATFW at the coast
3.My dyno produced 164.5kw ATFW inland
4.I have been reliably told that you typically loose 15kw inland
5.That means 194.6kw ATFW at the coast
6.That's a 54.6kw ATFW gain?? Sounds too good to be true
7.The guy that did the fabrication is the most respected local person in header and exhaust performance.....with articles in leading local performance magazines. He has checked his equipment, and is convinced that is the right BEFORE no......so much so , that he is taking my car back to redevelop his header and exhaust system, as everything has been 'thrown out the window'
8.As this was a handmade, time consuming DIY mod....and reading so often that when ppl do DIY mods, they never get them dynoed cos the dyno costs more than the actual mod.....I wanted to proove that sometimes, it works to all those that have been ridiculed or talked down....hence my mod, prior to a performance part fitment....granted that this is a MASSIVE almost UNREALISTIC number gain, I was in utter disbelief myself. I still wish I had done an independant dyno prior. But hey, thought I was doing the right thing
9.I am sure that this dyno may even cause myself to be ridiculed...I don't mind, the figure sound ridiculous to me as well....at least it's one better that so many other non dynoed DIY mods.....and I have some trusted local backup (Skunk2 incl) that is working round the clock for a solution.
10.Local fabricator promised me and increase on my 1st run or my money back...either way, I do not loose!!
11.If for some cosmic event he can improve gain, I'll get the car dynoed independantly elsewhere to support his results or not.
12.Either way, watch this space if still interested....and try not to shoot me down
13.Over and out
sorry to break it to you buddy, but theyre only 140kw at the flywheel... most euros put down around 100-110kw ATFW stock depending on the dyno...Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
rofl this thread is hilariously funny.
When you mean 'put down' you mean at the wheels right??!!! So it should read 100-110kw ATW and not 100-110kw ATFW....140kw - 23% = 107.8kw (flywheel to wheel conversion %)Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
"Building Honda K-Series Engine Performance' suggest the K24A3 @ 160hp ATFW? Which equals to 119kw? Sorry, just trying to understand the facts here....cos our Honda is sold locally as a 140kw ATFW power plant (or 187.7hp)...Book must be wrong OR is there a difference between K24A3s?? If so, I would like to know which items are different....sorry, learning curve for me.
Which makes the dyno even less sense:thumbdwn:....I hate calculations:(...next dyno on redevelopment must be ATW:thumbsup:
BTW : The second run was without the minicat...took the car back the day after for fitment....so the 2nd run is definitely untrue. I am playing devil's advocate for the 1st run....I'll even ask that they service their dyno machine and get it checked just in case it has been giving false readings
On my trip down to the coast from inland (On Wed afternoon), the reading @ 200km travelled was for another 800km outstanding.....the reading @ 475km travelled was for another 475km oustanding. I eventually filled the tank once I had done 880km, cos it's fun @ the coast.
Just to clear up the confusion, in Australia, dyno figures are always referred to ATW, at the wheels. I guess that was where the confusion started when people thought that when you said ATFW that it meant "at the front wheels".Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
I reckon, you need to go back to the coast and dyno at that same workshop again now with your I/H/E setup. You can't guess what your baseline is at an inland dyno without actually actually running on an inland dyno.
Ahh....I'll forget abbreviations next time...Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Install was done inland and both flywheel dynos' done inland as well...I don't have a baseline dyno, as I wanted to test my DIY mod (explained earlier). I'll get fabricator to give me his wheel dyno of the 2 runs....I'm sure it's just a conversion process @ his machine. Spoke to him yesterday, he is very interested in working on my car. He said
1.Dyno test as is (as minicat was subsequently installed)...will give a diff no now?
2.Remove his system and replace with my stock header and exhaust, and dyno at flywheel and wheel....He is just as keen to play devil's advocate and disprove himself / results OR reconfirm Run 1.
3.I have given him as much internet info as possible for fabrication, cos he is a hands on type of person.
4.He has been very interested in the firing sequence of the K24....said last time he designed a header for firing seq. was when he was in competition biking development. Which makes me think that the current header that he developed for 2 installs already on mate's cars may need rework??? I'll check with him.
This is off the book mentioned earlier...No-one has commented on the K24A3 kw question?
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...ngineSpecs.jpg
EUR003act : The RBC on the K24A2 (Page28 & Page29) only reported 4hp gain @7100rpm and 11 ft-lbs torque gain @ 4400rpm.
This is my friends K24A3 stock coast flywheel dyno...granted that not all K24A3's are the same from the same factory in the same country.
http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/c...ockcropped.jpg
what was the K24A3 question? lolQuote:
Originally Posted by Quest
hehe well myself and euroaccord13 have seen higher gains than that from the RBC... he dyno'd before and after fitting the RBC and got about 10hp gain at the wheels i think? plus a gain accross nearly the entire rev range...
im not a motor mechanic... but when i do mods to my engine i just apply basic physics... it has seemed to work for me so far... lol fingers crossed!
Why on the net and on the book it says the car is 160hp, when it's actually 188hp.....do we have some parts of the K24A2 that make this so or not....?Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
I had hoped you would say that, couldn't imagine spending the cash on such small gain....Going to Hong Kong in Dec on holiday, can anyone suggest any 1 place to visit for JDM toys from personal experience? I would love to have the 1st RBC in ZA...got the cash, just need to be pointed in the right direction.:wave:Quote:
Originally Posted by EUR003act
In the US, their K24A3 is the equivalent to our K24A1. Our K24A3 is the same as USA's 2004-2005 K24A2 with a different ECU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Quest
We did cover this b4, but you have a better memory than me. So, if I understand you correctly, if I did an K24A2 ECU swap, I could gain 200hp-188hp = 11hp (8kw) more???Quote:
Originally Posted by aaronng
Or is it not that simple like Windows plug and pray?:D
Anyone do this in OZ?