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  1. #1
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    Spoon Sub Frame Rigid Collar Kit?

    Hi guys

    Curious - has anyone fitted a Spoon sub frame rigid collar kit to their ek?

    I've done a bit of homework to start the discussion. Any thoughts and opinions on this simple mod?


    What is it?
    The Spoon Sub Frame Rigid Collar kit is simple to fit and low cost. Rigid Collars ease into position without affecting the basic geometry of the body.

    The way the Rigid Collar works is simple:
    * Bolt holes through the chassis panel and sub frame are too big as they were designed for ease of production in the factory

    *When the car leaves the factory, everything is new and tight and the chassis hardly moves

    *After a while, the bolts become slightly looser and movement between the panels begins. This is why an older vehicle fitted with new bushes, Shocks and springs, still doesn't behave like a new car.

    *The Rigid Collar is an aluminium washer with a square outside Taper to increase adhesion on the Thinner flange portion in the middle. This fits between the moving panels and with a properly sized bolt (and Bolt Hole as part of the Rigid Collar) is crushed into place when tightened, joining the two panels and stopping movement forever.

    http://www.spoonsports.co.uk/product...evel3=&id=6013



    What does it do?

    http://youtu.be/zWyUD6UXfog






    What are the guys on ek9.org saying?

    http://www.ek9.org/forum/suspension/...t-spoon-2.html
    Last edited by Alvis; 11-06-2011 at 01:53 PM.
    HONDAOEMMUGEN

    JDM/Mugen inspired EK sedan build thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ss-pics/page34

  2. #2
    thats interesting
    if the subframe moves that much without the collar, i wonder if it wont shear the collar as they seem to be quite thin

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by exquisit View Post
    thats interesting
    if the subframe moves that much without the collar, i wonder if it wont shear the collar as they seem to be quite thin
    Yeh I've never seen this before either.

    I'm no engineer but I've read it again and looked at the video and I think it's made of aluminium because it actually "crushes" the collar into the bolt hole.

    Am I understanding that right or not?
    HONDAOEMMUGEN

    JDM/Mugen inspired EK sedan build thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ss-pics/page34

  4. #4
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    And further to the above - here are some Q&A:

    QUESTION.1
    Once you install them and you have to take the sub frame down again, is it advised that you install new collars? or is it fine to re use the same ones? reason I ask is because it seems to have a similar effect to a crush washer and you are always supposed to replace them once used. Also, you guys have them for the front and rear subframes?

    ANSWER.1
    You should be able to reuse them because it'll re-crush again but just like crush washers for drain bolts, you can only use them so many times before the material is too thin to reform again. Each set comes with collars for both the front and rear subframes.




    QUESTION.2
    Can we get an idea how much work it would take to install these please.

    ANSWER.2
    There are a couple ways you can install them. The hardest way is if you don't have access to a lift you will need to put the car on stands and lower the subframe by loosening all the bolts without letting them fall out. Once you lower the subframe enough to fit the collars in, take out one bolt at a time and install one collar at a time then put each bolt back on right afterward to support the subframe then move on to the next bolt. You'll then need to slowly tighten each bolt a little at a time in a cross pattern to move the subframe back up while make sure the collars are slotted in properly.


    Otherwise, a shop that has a lift and a platform jack, it's a quick install and take about 15 minutes.



    Source: http://www.s2ki.com/s2000/topic/8518...-collar-video/
    HONDAOEMMUGEN

    JDM/Mugen inspired EK sedan build thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ss-pics/page34

  5. #5
    I've got them for my dc2 and on just looking at the design, I'd say good money making ploy otherwise bullshit. Some of the holding.collars are just 2mm tall and 1mm thick. Top that off made from aluminium like what you find in bunnings. If there's shear, this will shear right off.
    And Oh.. dc2r rigid collars for sale... Hahaha
    MFactory Competition Products

  6. #6
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    first of all ... why are they using an insight as a test bench for spoon racing products? lol

    i will show my lecturer this next week and see what his thoughts are =)
    ----------------------------
    D15b Turbo EG Sedan Build + CL9 Lux N/A Build
    http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127680

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by e240 View Post
    I've got them for my dc2 and on just looking at the design, I'd say good money making ploy otherwise bullshit. Some of the holding.collars are just 2mm tall and 1mm thick. Top that off made from aluminium like what you find in bunnings. If there's shear, this will shear right off.
    And Oh.. dc2r rigid collars for sale... Hahaha
    Thanks for sharing your experiences with them - good to hear peoples experience. I would have a guess that the type R Civic/Integras would have come with a tighter fit than say a standard EK1/4? I don't know... but maybe that's why they show a Prius to exaggerate the situation... BUT in saying that see below comment to Saint:


    Quote Originally Posted by TheSaint View Post
    first of all ... why are they using an insight as a test bench for spoon racing products? lol

    i will show my lecturer this next week and see what his thoughts are =)
    Thanks mate - would be interesting to get his thoughts...



    Now... for some more homework: the pic you see below is from a Civic FD3 (not a Prius lol) - check these out:

    In photo 2 and 3 you can clearly see a fairly large gap where the bolt connects the subframe to the chassis and in photo 4 with the rigid collars installed. Pretty clear evidence it does tighten things up and no matter how good your coilovers/suspension are, without this there is always going to be flex.

    What the end result is on the road for an EK1 I'm not sure... but you would make the assumption it could only make the geometry of the car better...


    Photo. 1



    Photo. 2



    Photo. 3



    Photo.4

    Source of photos: http://spoon-mechanic.seesaa.net/upl...8A3B1.jpg.html


    Would be good to hear any more experiences/opinions guys... and excluding talking about price (we all know you pay for Spoon), if just the mod in itself would make an improvement to the car
    Last edited by Alvis; 11-06-2011 at 04:39 PM.
    HONDAOEMMUGEN

    JDM/Mugen inspired EK sedan build thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ss-pics/page34

  8. #8
    one thing they claim will definately be bullshit which is reduced indoor and outdoor noise

    coz as with anything... the more rigid it is... the more vibration and noise is transmitted to the inside of the car

    i rekon it will work... maybe not to the extent they claim... but it will help with subframe walk

  9. #9
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    actually - it should reduce noise if you think about it

    your not stiffening your suspension or installing uprated bushes - you are increasing the strength of the joins from the sub frame to the chassis
    ----------------------------
    D15b Turbo EG Sedan Build + CL9 Lux N/A Build
    http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthread.php?t=127680

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheSaint View Post
    actually - it should reduce noise if you think about it

    your not stiffening your suspension or installing uprated bushes - you are increasing the strength of the joins from the sub frame to the chassis
    hmm... what is ur reasoning behind this?

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by exquisit View Post
    hmm... what is ur reasoning behind this?
    not sure... I was thinking it could be reduced tyre noise? They said in the video it keeps the car more straight with less corrections needed in a straight line...?
    HONDAOEMMUGEN

    JDM/Mugen inspired EK sedan build thread: http://www.ozhonda.com/forum/showthr...ss-pics/page34

  12. #12
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    oh noes....I just ordered a set =\
    I figured an old EG could use something like this and from the video and pictures I see, the gap is substantial. Enough to warrant these collars.
    Fair point, for $200 I'm starting to think these won't pay off. BAKA!

    Thanks for making this thread though
    Econo Box pimping ain't easy.

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