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Larger wheels and aquaplaning
Hi guys and gals,
I'm just wondering about larger (and hence wider) wheels and the increased chance of aquaplaning. I'd never thought of this b4 but I read somewhere here about 6mths ago it should be a consideration. Is it true that wider wheels aquaplane easier? I would have though you have more contact with the road and hence create more friction and stop/turn better. Does the larger wheel act as a float more easlily?
I ask as when I upgraded to 17*7's (215 tyre) on my old riced up Lancer I aquaplanned a lot more then when I had my smaller 15*6's (195 tyre). When I get new wheels for my Euro (eventually in my next life time at the moment), then I want to keep it as a consideration if it's true.
Last edited by BiLL|z0r; 26-06-2006 at 12:16 PM.
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i had the same probs moving to 17s... i assumed i'd get better grip but made it worse. i'm ASSUMING the camber is affected by the wider tyre profile or the effect is the other way around.
either way alignment adjustment fixed it a bit (not sure if toe was introduced when i got it done)... getting cheapo tyres on the 17s is another story....
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Forget about wheels for a moment. Its your tyres that contact the road. So lets talk about that.
That is right, if you have wider tyres your car will Aquaplane easier in the wet. Reason? Because you have increased the 'surface area' of tyre contact to the road because of the extra width. In doing that there is less weight per CM square on your tyres, as the cars weight is distributed over this larger area. Comprende?
In the dry this is this can be good having extra rubber on the road. But in the wet the water has more area of tyre to lift the car and Aquaplane. Each tyre design is different, but in general if you go wider, it will Aquaplane easier.
Last edited by DLO01; 26-06-2006 at 12:37 PM.
Deano.
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Originally Posted by BiLL|z0r
Hi guys and gals,
I'm just wondering about larger (and hence wider) wheels and the increased chance of aquaplaning. I'd never thought of this b4 but I read somewhere here about 6mths ago it should be a consideration. Is it true that wider wheels aquaplane easier? I would have though you have more contact with the road and hence create more friction and stop/turn better. Does the larger wheel act as a float more easlily?
I ask as when I upgraded to 17*7's (215 tyre) on my old riced up Lancer I aquaplanned a lot more then when I had my smaller 15*6's (195 tyre). When I get new wheels for my Euro (eventually in my next life time at the moment), then I want to keep it as a consideration if it's true.
firstly, larger wheels does not always mean wider, generally so, but its perfectly posible to get larger wheels without them being any wider.
secondly, there are more variables at play here - yes its true to say that if we are talking about two of the same tyre, with one being wider than the other, for example 15/50/165 vs 15/50/205 (irrespective of size) then the wider tyre will aquaplane more easily.
its all a compromise
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Originally Posted by DLO01
Forget about wheels for a moment. Its your tyres that contact the road. So lets talk about that.
That is right, if you have wider tyres your car will Aquaplane easier in the wet. Reason? Because you have increased the 'surface area' of tyre contact to the road because of the extra width. In doing that there is less weight per CM square on your tyres, as the cars weight is distributed over this larger area. Comprende?
In the dry this is this can be good having extra rubber on the road. But in the wet the water has more area of tyre to lift the car and Aquaplane. Each tyre design is different, but in general if you go wider, it will Aquaplane easier.
Spot on
There is less pressure (force per unit area) so its easier to make the car float across the top of the water. Imagine running on pizza cutters, there would be no chance of floating across the top of a puddle (unless its ice). Then running on big balloons?
Fact is though that its only when there is a lot of water on the road (read deep puddles) that you'll notice a deficit. I got 205s on my last crx and it handled brilliantly in the wet. Getting wider doesnt mean you'll have less handling in the wet as long as you get good tyres you'll still have better 'handling' just an increased chance of aquaplaning in a large puddle. Basically if you see a large puddle you should be slowing down no matter what tyres you are running, not worth the chance and unpredictable nature of it all.
Basically go the big tyres mate, make them a good tyre though. Eagle f1 are awesome in the wet! You will have better handling mate, just watch for puddles.
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Array
camber also affects aqua planing.
too much camber = less contact on the road = more likely a chance of spinning out.
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also you have to look at the tyre that is designed for wet conditions. Aquaplaning is when you get a layer of water under the tyres between the tyre and wheel. If the tyre is desiged properly it can reduce the amount of water and hench increase the contact between the road.
That is why you see a line down the middle of wet tyres to allow for the water to run out from under the tyre. ALso wet tyres are softer as they are not needing warming due to the water cooling the tyres.
Have you seen F1 their tyres are very wide for the wet. you still need large water contact but jsut that it is large it allows for larger amounts of water to go between the tyre and road, they the design and the compound come into play
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Originally Posted by joyride
camber also affects aqua planing.
too much camber = less contact on the road = more likely a chance of spinning out.
less contact with the road, too an extent is BENEFICIAL in wet conditions.
as we have said before, more contact means less force on each square unit of area of tyre, meaning higher chance of aquaplaning.
if you had camber such that less of the tyre was contacting the road, this would be a good thing because more force would be applied to the area of the tyre contacting the road (same total amount of force, smaller area), meaning it would resist aquaplaning more
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Thanks for the replies everyone. Mr Will, you make a good point about camber in your last response, something I'd never thought of.
I guess it's always a compromise.
CRX51, I wanted Eagle F1's for my Euro now as it'd due for 4 new tyres but they don't import them in 205/55/R16 anymore Due to lack of sales in that size I was told. 50 profile and down now days. If any1 knows where you can get them I'd order them in a snap.
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i believe a number of the guys with euro's have tried some different tyres, might be worth a look in the accord section, there are some very knowledgable euro owners on the forum and id say they would be able to help you out with tyre choice
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Array
i should have mentioned that more camber in RWD cars is a bad thing. but this doesnt apply since most hondas are FWD.
if youre gona get any size wheels but are afraif of aquaplaning, just get better tyres suited to wet weather. makes sense doesnt it?
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Originally Posted by joyride
i should have mentioned that more camber in RWD cars is a bad thing. but this doesnt apply since most hondas are FWD.
if youre gona get any size wheels but are afraif of aquaplaning, just get better tyres suited to wet weather. makes sense doesnt it?
its not true to say that camber in RWD cars is a bad thing, thats simply incorrect.
camber is all about compromise. in a rwd car, neg camber (ie bottom of wheel further out than top) will result in less traction when accelerating in a straight line, but a greater ability to put down power around a corner.
in a fwd car, too an extent, camber on rear wheels has no real negative side effects. obviously if you have a ridiculous amount that will be detrminental, but since you are not sending power to the rear wheels you cant 'lose' by not being able too put power down in a straight line
in any car, fwd, rwd or awd, camber on the front wheels assists in cornering traction and stability.
this effect is more pronounced in fwd cars as you are trying to put power down through these wheels, and if they have more contact with the road, you will be able to put more power down. simple.
so it is INCORRECT to say that camber in rwd cars is bad, thats just silly.
'getting tyres better suited to wet weather' is only part of the equation
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